☛ Official ☚ The Big & Dandy 4-HO-McPT Thread

[Research Professor]

Sure perhaps I’ll put my trip report up but for now I will quote a relevant passage:"It is worth commenting on the comparison that has been drawn between this and MiPT (on Bluelight) but it wasn’t really like it from what I remember. MiPT was “ok”; very mild (which is where the clumsy simile may come in) with a duration of 6-8hrs. It had a sort of generic synthetic trpytamine type signature and low key head space. You might be able to use it as a museum dose type thing or as a mild social or thinking type thing but it didn’t offer much. I don't know what a higher would do, it didn't seem it would necessarily provide much more. It didn't have the sensory aspect that some find in a couple of the 5MeOs. Concluding, McPT is odd stuff‘ as is oft said of experimental chemicals.It’s largely simply stoning with some visual component, and the stand out feature of this trip was the sudden in and out. It's brevity (orally) is unrivalled. (edit) it seemed to come on very suddenly and then evaporate, the most notable level of effect being little more than 20min.” Worth noting the total duration was about 2hrs so the the ideal that the cyclopropyl turned to an isopropyl seems wrong (also plausably supported by some other data I’m aware of); most of the tests conducted by others were by insufflation and not considered outstanding but one party insufflated a very large amount and found it a candyflossDMT type experience of worth. Sadly never tried 4HO-MIPT but the fact it seems quite good when MIPT is modest suggests 4HO-McPT could be worthwhile but what alteration the hydroxy adds I don’t know. Hope that helps

Interesting, so theoretically one could try blasting themselves pretty far out without worrying much about getting stuck somewhere unpleasant for too long? With acid for instance if one blasts too far they might be in for riding out a nightmare for hours on end. I'm sure the mindstate this produces is nothing like acid either, but the brevity makes me wonder if going above and beyond what one is comfortable with isn't such a worrisome idea?

In Tranylcypromine ("Parnate"), the cyclopropyl group does indeed lead to Irreversible MAO Inhibition. However, the cyclopropyl in that drug is sandwiched between the Phenyl and the amine (it's essentially just amphetamine with the ethyl and alpha-methyl groups fused into a cyclopropyl ring). With 4-HO-McPT, on the other hand, the cyclopropyl is only connected to the terminal amine, so maybe it could get dealkylated/deaminated without permanently gumming up the enzyme.As for DNA damage - there is a number of prescription pharmaceuticals with cyclopropyl groups attached to them that would probably have been taken off the market already if they were carcinogenic in any significant way; Prazepam, for one, comes to mind. Since the average psychonaut probably isn't going to ingest more than one-hundred miligrams of 4-HO-McPT in a month, I kind of doubt you're exposing yourself to a major cancer risk with it either.

Wouldn't the real risk be the potentiation of the effects? I remember reading somewhere about MAOIs and substituted tryptamines, basically unless you have a death wish of the ego variety sort, that is unless you want to potentiate the effects to a possibly mind damaging level (not brain, the risk isn't physical it is psychological as the effects can be potentiated to falling into a dimensional abyss and losing your damn mind levels) or at least according to a thread I read on this topic, could probably dig it up if I had the time using Google. Edit (sorry for the spacing of this post editing it messed it up cannot alter the spacing now): Misunderstood the person asking about a MAOI concern. Just do not take these compounds while taking an MAOI. They are not like DMT in that taking a MAOI is favorable, or even like taking some Rue with fungus if one is feeling like a jungle shaman. Substituted tryptamines + MAOI = Danger, danger you must be a deranged lone ranger!

I once took 4-HO-MIPT while taking a MAOI herb daily for sometime. It didn't cross my mind the herb would have an effect on the compound but I was so eager to try I didn't really care to give it a second thought lol, be careful with herbs and drugs. I thought I was going to die. I thought I was going to lose my mind. I've never felt that scared, scared to death, on any other drug before and I have experienced ego death and delusions that I actually died physically on mushrooms. One time I called 911 and told them I was dying (some cops showed up with an ambulance and my friend ended up taking me home a half hour later from the hospital, I was coming down by this point) after my sitter had left caused I wigged so hard and stripped myself naked and he was unable to control me, I was running around the neighborhood into neighbors garages (ate one too many grams of what must have been specimens of an underestimated potency) and then I thought I was really dying after I went into trance for what seemed like an hour, totally out of body and having a waking dream, inexplicable stuff, shamanic trance describes it pretty accurately there was no cohesion or control it was quite literally the dream controlling me and I had left the immediate environment in my mind as does happen to me when I eat a certain amount of mushrooms, out of body trances.

 

[Solipsis]

Passiflora? I don't think St John wort would be correctly called that but that might also cause interactions...

Yeah losing control is pretty much how I would describe psilohuasca myself, the MAOI undermining your natural resistance is also how it felt to me: being hopelessly compromised by the very trancy dreamy earthy more-spiritual-than-usual trip. Not sure if ayahuasca feels that way but I didn't appreciate it although I had pretty interesting visions full of symbolism.

fwiw I don't think the plain cyclopropyl moiety makes a compound carcinogenic or mutagenic, nor a MAOI. The placement matters a lot, also in relation to the amine probably... I imagine if the placement is just right, it might obscure and prevent normal activity of an enzyme for example.
I wonder if it matters a lot that the N-methyl could still get cleaved even if metabolic enzymes have trouble with the N-cyclopropyl. Unless the compound is abnormally weak itself and RIMA inhibition compensates for that, it doesn't seem like it's very significant but the dicyclopropyl might be another story? I would exercise caution with that until more is known. But, it's not available and don't really know how realistic it is anyway.

 

[Kaleida]

Come to think about it, Prazepam is actually one of the more obscure drugs containing a cyclopropyl group.

Buprenorphine and Naltrexone also have one, and they're arguably far more widely used.
As is Ciprofloxacin (a highly effective broad-spectrum antibiotic) - granted, that one can actually be toxic a.f., but this seems to be related to the fluoroquinolone skeleton itself, not the little cyclopropyl. Plus, we are talking about a substance where a normal daily dose for an adult is 1,000 miligrams.

Yeah, I'd actually never even heard of prazepam before, that's not something that happens often these days with drugs lol. That's cool about the buprenorphine and naltrexone though too, and now that you mention I actually can recall seeing several opioid molecules that had that cyclopropylmethylamine in them. The ciprofloxacin seems particularly significant though, both because of the dose like you said and the fact that its cyclopropyl group is directly attached to the nitrogen just like in the McPT molecules. It sure makes taking doses like the 25-50 mg amounts these things would likely require seem a good bit less potentially risky.

Thanks again!

Sure perhaps I’ll put my trip report up but for now I will quote a relevant passage:

"It is worth commenting on the comparison that has been drawn between this and MiPT (on Bluelight) but it wasn’t really like it from what I remember.
MiPT was “ok”; very mild (which is where the clumsy simile may come in) with a duration of 6-8hrs. It had a sort of generic synthetic trpytamine type signature and low key head space. You might be able to use it as a museum dose type thing or as a mild social or thinking type thing but it didn’t offer much. I don't know what a higher would do, it didn't seem it would necessarily provide much more. It didn't have the sensory aspect that some find in a couple of the 5MeOs.

Concluding, McPT is odd stuff‘ as is oft said of experimental chemicals.
It’s largely simply stoning with some visual component, and the stand out feature of this trip was the sudden in and out. It's brevity (orally) is unrivalled. (edit) it seemed to come on very suddenly and then evaporate, the most notable level of effect being little more than 20min.”

Worth noting the total duration was about 2hrs so the the ideal that the cyclopropyl turned to an isopropyl seems wrong (also plausably supported by some other data I’m aware of); most of the tests conducted by others were by insufflation and not considered outstanding but one party insufflated a very large amount and found it a candyflossDMT type experience of worth. Sadly never tried 4HO-MIPT but the fact it seems quite good when MIPT is modest suggests 4HO-McPT could be worthwhile but what alteration the hydroxy adds I don’t know. Hope that helps

Awesome, thanks very much for the detailed comparison! :D

I'm wondering, what dose(s) of MiPT did you take? I've only taken it once, but I purposefully took 50 mg to overcome the mild effects I'd heard reported by others. And I have to say, it was actually fantastic.... It was honestly one of the best trips I've ever had on any psychedelic ever, with both extreme euphoria and crazy intense closed eye visuals with a DMT-like sense of life to them. It sounds much like what you said someone was able to get out of insufflating McPT, which leads me to suspect even more than I already had that these chemicals are being chronically underdosed.

Interestingly, however, these extreme effects I noticed from the MiPT notably only lasted about half an hour after they first kicked in, and beyond that I just felt amazing for several hours afterward. Did you have an afterglow like that beyond the main effects of McPT? I ask because I'm honestly starting to suspect that it may just be an effect of this class of molecules, like the afterglow from smoked DMT. I actually tried smoking MET earlier today after all and noticed the same kind of thing, a fairly quick trip followed by euphoria lasting several times longer.

Anyway, thanks again! Every piece of information we can possibly get on these obscure psychedelics is definitely a big help.

fwiw I don't think the plain cyclopropyl moiety makes a compound carcinogenic or mutagenic, nor a MAOI. The placement matters a lot, also in relation to the amine probably... I imagine if the placement is just right, it might obscure and prevent normal activity of an enzyme for example.
I wonder if it matters a lot that the N-methyl could still get cleaved even if metabolic enzymes have trouble with the N-cyclopropyl. Unless the compound is abnormally weak itself and RIMA inhibition compensates for that, it doesn't seem like it's very significant but the dicyclopropyl might be another story? I would exercise caution with that until more is known. But, it's not available and don't really know how realistic it is anyway.

Yeah, I'm starting to get over my fear of the possible toxicities, but the MAOI concern does come out of the fact that it's specifically N-cyclopropyltryptamines that were shown to have this activity, but not with any other alkyls on them I don't believe.

I'm not on my computer and it's not easy for me to look this up right now, but for what it's worth I'm fairly certain the other day I came across a study saying that some N-methyl-N-cyclopropylamine was actually metabolized to leave only the methyl on it. I need to dig that up again....

DcPT sounds both interesting and terrifying right now lol. Also kind of a funny looking molecule.

 

[Solipsis]

Yes N-cyclopropyltryptamine and also 5,6 and 7 (di)methoxy analogues were found to be MAOIs but that is without the N-methyl. Also NcPT is supposed to be hypoglycemic. Not sure if there is any relation there but it would probably help if someone did a finger prick test and/or report if feeling woozy etc with this 4-HO-McPT.

Don't know how noticably MAOI activity may cause headaches or vasodilation or something like that, or what the chance is that McPTs are like NcPTs. Be careful I guess.

I should clarify that I didn't mean plain cyclopropyl compounds are no MAOIs, just that it doesn't automatically make them all a MAOI.

 

[Sir Ron Pib]

Awesome, thanks very much for the detailed comparison! :D

I'm wondering, what dose(s) of MiPT did you take? I've only taken it once, but I purposefully took 50 mg to overcome the mild effects I'd heard reported by others. And I have to say, it was actually fantastic.... It was honestly one of the best trips I've ever had on any psychedelic ever, with both extreme euphoria and crazy intense closed eye visuals with a DMT-like sense of life to them. It sounds much like what you said someone was able to get out of insufflating McPT, which leads me to suspect even more than I already had that these chemicals are being chronically underdosed.

Interestingly, however, these extreme effects I noticed from the MiPT notably only lasted about half an hour after they first kicked in, and beyond that I just felt amazing for several hours afterward. Did you have an afterglow like that beyond the main effects of McPT? I ask because I'm honestly starting to suspect that it may just be an effect of this class of molecules, like the afterglow from smoked DMT. I actually tried smoking MET earlier today after all and noticed the same kind of thing, a fairly quick trip followed by euphoria lasting several times longer.

Anyway, thanks again! Every piece of information we can possibly get on these obscure psychedelics is definitely a big help.

It’s above - 25mg MIPT only one trial with friends - MIPT wasn’t flash but it started to have a trippy (mainly) mind set as mentioned in thikal - it wouldn’t surprise me that MIPT could potentially be better at a higher dose - I think it would have more intellectual capacity than with McPT which was more a sedate drift - there was the beginnings of experimenting vapping McPT but of the two drugs given the choice to try again orally I’d go with MIPT I think. Tried MAOI with several typtamines and a PEA; I don’t know if some of these plant MAOIs are really potnent enough to be reliable and I’d go betacarboline or moclobemide; they bring there own flavours though. The only thin g really beyond this is someone to actually try 4HO-McPT; originally I called 4AcO-DALT “Allacetin” following naming conventions - this is harder ‘Mcyclocin” I guess; not sure these names are more helpful than 4HO-McPT though

 

[cj187]

originally I called 4AcO-DALT “Allacetin” following naming conventions - this is harder ‘Mcyclocin” I guess; not sure these names are more helpful than 4HO-McPT though

Yeah, I've been wondering what we'll call this one. Maybe McProcin? Makes me hungry for some cheeseburgers and fries

 

[Kaleida]

It’s above - 25mg MIPT only one trial with friends - MIPT wasn’t flash but it started to have a trippy (mainly) mind set as mentioned in thikal - it wouldn’t surprise me that MIPT could potentially be better at a higher dose - I think it would have more intellectual capacity than with McPT which was more a sedate drift - there was the beginnings of experimenting vapping McPT but of the two drugs given the choice to try again orally I’d go with MIPT I think.

Awesome, thanks for the information once more. I'd really like to try McPT one of these days based on what you say actually, even if I just get a few experiences in. The MiPT definitely is awesome though, and I do love that cognitive aspect of it, at that 50 mg for me it was still pretty lightheaded but I definitely could feel a classical headspace starting to develop. How much McPT did you try vaping? I think I'm going to try that with MiPT soon actually, since my MET attempt was pretty successful in that way.

 

[Hodor]

‘Mcyclocin”

McProcin?

You don't really follow up an "M" with a "c" for a trivial name though.

I already mentioned Ciprofloxacin and Tranylcypromine which both shorten "Cyclopropyl" to "cipro/cypro".

Consequently, I'd suggest "Meciprocin" (or "Mecyprocin") as the trivial name for 4-HO-McPT.
A hypothetical 4-HO-N,N,-Dicyclopropyltryptamine would be "Ciprocin"/"Cyprocin", and 4-AcO-McPT would be "Mecipracetin".

 

[Solipsis]

Thats pretty good hodor I like it!

McProcin LOL I'm loving it.. loving meaning contracting diabetes.

 

[Xorkoth]

You don't really follow up an "M" with a "c" for a trivial name though.

It was just a McDonald's reference.

 

[Sir Ron Pib]

You don't really follow up an "M" with a "c" for a trivial name though.

I already mentioned Ciprofloxacin and Tranylcypromine which both shorten "Cyclopropyl" to "cipro/cypro".

Consequently, I'd suggest "Meciprocin" (or "Mecyprocin") as the trivial name for 4-HO-McPT.
A hypothetical 4-HO-N,N,-Dicyclopropyltryptamine would be "Ciprocin"/"Cyprocin", and 4-AcO-McPT would be "Mecipracetin".

Meciprocin/Mecipracetin isn’t right to my mind - your kind of grabbing a “i” out of no where confusable with the more common isopropyls despite other names alluded to; “i” & “y” are phonetically similar. “Mc” can be said “ma-cyclo” but probably there is fair argument for MEcyprocin or MEcycloprocin - I actually prefer the latter aesthetically but do wonder what what these common names are actually for apart from intellectual wanking; 4HO-McPT is short and clear and unambiguous - anyway but time someone took some : )

 

[Sir Ron Pib]

Awesome, thanks for the information once more. I'd really like to try McPT one of these days based on what you say actually, even if I just get a few experiences in. The MiPT definitely is awesome though, and I do love that cognitive aspect of it, at that 50 mg for me it was still pretty lightheaded but I definitely could feel a classical headspace starting to develop. How much McPT did you try vaping? I think I'm going to try that with MiPT soon actually, since my MET attempt was pretty successful in that way.

To be honest McPT wasn't that exciting to most testers - I felt a bit odd and ataxic at the peak - might have just been that trip - I tried vaping I think 20-25mg and did get much; I have enough to retry - perhaps my tech was off/or pipe grubby or something since it should have been active at that range based on other compounds that are closely related (and shall remain unspoken of for the present; I don’t know there fate) being pretty active; I think McPT and 4hO-McPT should be pretty effective that way

 

[Incunabula]

Mecyprocin get's my vote.

... but do wonder what what these common names are actually for apart from intellectual wanking;

They are easier to pronounce, and they sound cool and mystic, lol ^

 

[Kaleida]

Alright.... I'm definitely taking this tomorrow. No foolies this time.

 

[Bigazznugz]

Alright.... I'm definitely taking this tomorrow. No foolies this time.

Awesome can't wait to hear what it's like!

 

[TheAppleCore]

Haha, awesome Kaleida! That's my plan as well. Maybe we'll meet up in 4-HO-McPT hyperspace. What dose were you planning on taking? I'll probably go with around 16 mg, even though it probably won't be a full dose, just in case it's unusually strong, or has a nasty bodyload.


EDIT:

Yesterday was my sub-threshold (~1mg) 4-HO-McPT test. Two and a half hours after the test, I ate a meal with a generous serving of balsamic vinegar (high in tyramine, which causes hypertension with an MAOI), and two cups of strong green tea (caffeine also is known to cause hypertension with MAOIs). There was no unexpected change in blood pressure or pulse.

Now, this little test obviously doesn't rule out the potential that it has some MAOI properties, but if 4-HO-McPT were a potent irreversible MAOI capable of causing life-threatening hypertensive crisis in combination with tyramine at a psychedelic dosage, I would expect there to be at least some tiny measurable effect from eating a tyramine rich meal on 1 mg. Correct me if I'm wrong.

The other possibility is that the 4-HO-McPT was already fully metabolized by the time I digested the meal. Regardless, I'm not too worried about it.

 

[Kaleida]

Sweet, I'll see you there. :D It'll be cool to get two different perspectives on a new chemical at the same time! I'll be going with my standard dose for trying new 4-substituted tryptamines, 25 mg orally, so that I can make the fairest comparison to all my other first experiences. I'm not too worried about having an unexpectedly strong trip this time, my setting is actually so much better than normal even that I would welcome it. As for the body load, I'll have access to a good few MAOI-safe pharmaceuticals to counter it if need be, plus nitrous if it's just something like overly strong tremors.

Glad to hear that your test went well too. I can't say how much it would apply to recreational doses either, but since we honestly know nothing about what its MAOI activity could be if it does have it, it's probably in our best interests to know for sure that it's not already present at such a low dose too!

 

[Incunabula]

Can't wait for you guys reports on this

 

[Kaleida]

TheAppleCore, if you haven't dosed yet, you may want to consider going a bit higher. I'm sitting here right now on 25 mg at T+1:35 and this is honestly a solid +/-, with cannabis pushing it in to a +. There are no visuals and no real physical effects except maybe some placebo-level increases in sweating, and I felt like there was maybe a slight dreamy rush reminiscent of the other tryptamines coming on in the first fifteen minutes but then it settled down to a euphoria that was only present in my legs, which was definitely there but could only be felt when not using them. At T+1:00 I wasn't even definitely sure I was feeling anything, so I started smoking a bowl of cannabis that I just recently finished while listening to music. By about two thirds of the way through I felt I was at the +, there is definitely a feeling present in this experience that tryptamines give me at the peak that cannabis does not, most notable in that music sounds just a bit better than normal but I am more inclined to laze around than to get up and dance. I can also tell that my imagination is just slightly enhanced when I actually try to use it, but there's no real push to.

I don't have access to my stash right now and I wouldn't redose now if I did, but I am suspecting that this one may need to be taken at a higher dose than this next time for at least myself. It definitely does feel like something psychedelic is there, at what strength I can't really say, but something real. I expect this to be a pleasant day regardless, and will definitely report back with any further updates of significance.



Edit:



So, it's about T+2:20 now and it's been long enough that I'm pretty sure nothing else is going to unexpectedly develop with this now, I seem to be slowly returning to full sobriety more than anything. Something else notable though is that not long after I made this post I actually started feeling a pretty good amount of excited energy very similar to basically every other N-methyltryptamine I've ever taken, and that was quite fun to work with for dancing to the music, particularly songs like the above hehe. It's starting to pass now too, but I'm still feeling good from it.

I'm sorry I couldn't give you guys more than this for now, but I definitely will write a trip report about what I did get out of it when it's all said and done, and I'll definitely try it again at a higher dose soon. I am very much thinking also that if later today I am still in the mood I might try taking some other tryptamine to see if the effect is reduced, as it should be from slight tolerance alone, or enhanced, as it might be if this chemical does have MAOI effects at this dose. We'll see though.

I'm heading off to take a bath for now though, that should be nice.

 

[TheAppleCore]

^ Thanks for the update Kaleida! I was totally convinced that I felt something from my 1 mg tester, which I insufflated, so now I'm starting to think I might use another ROA for my experiment. Although, the power of suggestion is strong, so maybe that's all it was for me.