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The Big & Dandy 3-MeO-PCP Thread - Part 2

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pharmakos

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i've got a massive dissociative tolerance (i still retain fine motor function on 100mg+ of MXE), and still every time i've gone over 30mg of 3-MeO-PCP i basically went insane. i would say 15mg-20mg is probably the max dose someone without tolerance should take.

dunno if i can say it better than this:

this

the dose response curve for this one basically goes up like normal, until you hit a certain point... then rather than ascending it takes a right hand turn in the fourth dimension

with this stuff there is a very fine line between "intense but manageable" and "full blown insanity". please tread with caution.
 

MundaneDivinity

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I'm also having a hard time seeing the mania and utter insanity that so many report. I'm also not exactly looking for it -- a hint of it might be nice, but quotes like the one above about the dose-response tweaking off into outer space at the blink of an eye have me playing it safe. My one and only binge on it was I think something like 60mg over the course of nine hours (the largest single dose was 25mg about three hours after a 15mg dose) and I got just a little impulsive. I really wanted to watch Inception so I blew $9 on a digital download. So irresponsible. Otherwise, extreme double vision and moderately impaired motor control. Not a whole lot else going on. Probably should have tried closing my eyes for a bit but oh well.

When I take what seems to me to be a moderate dose (~8-12mg) I actually have a really hard time staying awake for it. Not sure I'll continue to work with this one after my sample is gone.
 

wayab

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i have a theory that the insanity part is due to sigma action. because the type of insanity i have had with it has always come if i did it 2 or 3 days in a row in big doses spaced out in time and reminded me much of the type of insanity i get from sigma platoes with dxm that again happen after days of a big doses spaced out. 5-10mg is just a very euphoric stimulant for me without a come down or dissociation.
any thoughts ? also mania is harder to self detect with this than with mxe but it's there not that i view mild mania as a bad thing that depends on your point of view i suppose
 

moezarturbula

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Not 100% sure of this but it seems to make sense putting two and two together; Noticed certain individuals using this compound on a consistent basis I.e. daily <10mg-15mg doses for a month or two may have led to the development of digestive complications. Probably due to the generally caustic properties of the substance itself. Several other factors likely to attribute to such complications, but the fact that these results have been observed in more than one individual involved led me to such a conclusion. The obvious symptoms are upset stomach, weight loss, increased/decreased appetite and similar gastrointestinal complications. Surely such would likely result from the compulsive consumption of ANY irritating substances, but I thought I'd just share my two cents since it seems to be a bit more than mere coincidence. My advice is just to be aware of your body and anything and everything you put into it. Thanks!
 

SnackAttack

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I've had a decent amount of experience with this compound... singular doses and month long tangents... I don't suggest that anyone dives into this without first undergoing heavy Ketamine experiences or MXE as 3-meo-pcp is EXTREMELY potent.. the most potent I've came across, it's far more alien then any of the others and I have seen a friend loose his biscuits for over a month due to a simple few miligrams too much.
 

MundaneDivinity

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I'm torn between feeling lucky and left out, but I just don't get the mania or alien nature of this stuff.

I've had those moments on high doses of MXE or DXM where causality seemingly goes out the window, everything is at once profound and meaningless, my thoughts peel back like the layers of an onion where every faux-insight is itself proof and grounds for the next, and my head spins around the notion that "There is no way I can ever come back from this / I don't care if I never come down." Of course, thus far I've always had the sense not to act too wildly on these faulty assumptions (if I'm going to be fucked for life, no reason to bother my family at 3 AM -- they'll find me like this soon enough).

When it comes to 3-MeO-PCP, anything below 12mg just makes me want to take a nap; over that (where I have admittedly gone only once) just gives me severe double vision and a loss of motor coordination on par with having had a couple of beers. I suppose there is some slight mania, but I hesitate to even call it that since it seemed to be at most comparable to what I would experience with say 20mg of dextroamphetamine. From my limited experience so far, the dissociation seems almost entirely physical with very negligible effects on my mental state.

I am in no way advocating that anyone disregard the the numerous warnings that many users have posted. I'm just curious if this material is not for me, or if there is some way that I might be able to get more out of it. My usual ROA has been oral; is there anything appreciable to be gained from nasal or rectal administration? Would taking a single dose of say 25-30mg be considerably different from taking 45mg over the course of six hours (where the largest single dose was 20mg)? Am I the only one who gets sleepy on low dose 3-MeO-PCP?
 
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lolwhatzdrugs

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The mania for me manifests as feelings of creativity, motivation, willingness to write in verse, ideas for short stories (I'm not a writer, just for fun) and so on. I'll also go shopping online (for cheap stuff like $3 books on half.com or amazon or stuff). I wouldn't call it mania as much as I'd call it hypomania, and then it's still a mild form of hypomania.

The creativity/shopping is very similar to the mania of bipolar disorder, only several orders of magnitude less severe IE for me it's completely controllable. I enjoy it. That part is understandable - I watched a BBC Health documentary on bipolar disorder by Stephen Fry (Hugh Laurie's - Dr. House's - buddy) as he has bipolar disorder, and mania was the one thing that every single person said they liked about bipolar disorder, and if they had a choice they'd ditch the major depressive episodes and keep an 'off/on' switch for the mania.

I'm not bipolar, so this [3-meo-pcp] is an off/on switch.

Actually the only person who said they wouldn't keep it at all was a person who had bipolar disorder with psychotic features and paranoia, she was in the British military and it ruined her life completely, poor lady. The guy who was in the military who also had it with psychotic features and ruined his military life, said he'd keep it because he enjoyed, literally, "walking with angels."

The documentary is actually available on youtube, just search "Stephen Fry The Secret Life Of The Manic Depressive."

Two people on it who I didn't know had bipolar disorder were Princess Leia from Star Wars (she was the most edgy, manic person on the documentary), and Richard Dreyfuss (JAWS), who actually after over 20 years of tapering, was able to get off his lithium and was med-free and completely controlled.
 

sekio

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The combination of this and unusual amounts of stress/sleep dep/etc put me in the hospital for a week+ So play fucking careful with this stuff kiddies. (Voices of a certain FnB are ringing in my head re: this whole event...)

Remember it bioaccumulates. And remember that you can easily have a fucking fugue state on the stuff. Scary it is waking up in the ICU after sitting down to do some BL and gaming.

Not going to elaborate any more on this, but just saying, some of the best have been burned by this shit so be careful :)
 
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lolwhatzdrugs

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Not going to elaborate any more on this, but just saying, some of the best have been burned by this shit so be careful :)

Seiko, this happen recently? You be careful my friend! You sure you can't elaborate just a little, like how much do you think that you ended up doing? How long were you apart from reality? If you don't wanna answer, it's fine, but those two questions don't seem too personal. I'd understand if you don't wanna think about it though.


Rest of yous', if someone as intelligent as him can push it too far, you sure as fuck can, if you're foolish with chemicals then you are a ticking bomb to insanity. One way ticket to crazier than you ever dreamed, with a little voice (separate from you) in your head screaming "what the fuck is happening."



  • Don't do more than 5-6 mg your first time.
  • Take a milligram scale, weigh out 1mg, do the 1mg, and go from there, increasing .5-1 mg (or less) at a time. This is as safe as it gets.
  • I weigh out 8 mg at a time, and dissolve it in 8-10 ml of water, and then use an oral syringe to do .1-.3 ml at a time. (but I have so experience, and yet I still have pushed it further than I wanted. No fugue states but it's been fucked up before...) Go as slow as possible, don't push it.
  • Never say "It's the weekend, fuck it, it'll be cool if I just take a good scoop." You will SERIOUSLY regret it.
  • MOST importantly, remember this stuff has a crazy dose response curve, it is NOT perfectly linear. It goes from hypomania to FuCkInG crazy so quick that fact about it alone is insane and can fuck you up real good.
    [*]MOST importantly, remember this stuff has a crazy dose response curve, it is NOT perfectly linear. It goes from hypomania to FuCkInG crazy so quick that fact about it alone is insane and can fuck you up real good.
    [*]It is a great idea to have a friend as a sitter, especially if you're new to this compound; it has given very experienced people some fucked up times.

    [*]It is a great idea to have a friend as a sitter, especially if you're new to this compound; it has given very experienced people some fucked up times.


I listed the last two points twice because they're that important.
 

MundaneDivinity

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The combination of this and unusual amounts of stress/sleep dep/etc put me in the hospital for a week+ So play fucking careful with this stuff kiddies. (Voices of a certain FnB are ringing in my head re: this whole event...)

Remember it bioaccumulates. And remember that you can easily have a fucking fugue state on the stuff. Scary it is waking up in the ICU after sitting down to do some BL and gaming.

Not going to elaborate any more on this, but just saying, some of the best have been burned by this shit so be careful :)

It is indeed troubling that yet another well-respected member comes forward having had a traumatic experience with this chemical. I discovered this weekend that it seems to pair well with the come down from a psychedelic (better than MXE for this purpose -- for me, at least). This is probably my favorite time to use a dissociative, but perhaps also the most risky. I'll probably not reorder it because of the apparent danger it poses, but I still have a small sample that I'm not totally sold on destroying ...

I understand not wanting to share the personal details of such a terrible experience, but I wonder if anyone who has had a difficult or traumatic experience with this drug would mind sharing some more diagnostic information. For example, if bad experiences have only resulted from consecutive days of use or repeated dosing during a single session, or if they are ever the result of a single, isolated, moderately high dose. I'm not really a heavy dissociative user, but I do seem to have a pretty hefty tolerance. In tests with as much as 45mg over an 8 hour session or 25mg in a single dose I have not run up against anything concerning.

Perhaps my problem is this: I find that with most dissociatives (MXE, DXM, K), things don't even start to get really interesting until they get weird. Does this one even have anything interesting to offer at higher doses, or is it really only suited for low doses? I think I might have just answered my own question, but I can't really find any compelling reason to take this much higher than 12-15mg, if that.
 

lolwhatzdrugs

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i don't really have a tolerance to NMDA antagonists. My bad experiences consisted of taking too much, 20-25 mg. I've been a lot more careful and now I usually enjoy 5-10 mg and I never get near the gates of hell which begin for me around 18 mg.

Now, the 'bad experiences' I'm talking about were never that bad. I'm sure a bunch worse shit could have happen, but I never truly became catatonic, at high doses words are harder to form (mild to moderate aphasia), and my co-coordination and memory goes to shit, I get amused like a baby at the most simple things. It's actually kind of fun in a way, but I prefer to maintain full control. That's why I like the slightly stimulated, low spectrum hypo-manic dosages where there is no slow down of your actual mental faculties.
 

MundaneDivinity

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i don't really have a tolerance to NMDA antagonists. My bad experiences consisted of taking too much, 20-25 mg. I've been a lot more careful and now I usually enjoy 5-10 mg and I never get near the gates of hell which begin for me around 18 mg.

Now, the 'bad experiences' I'm talking about were never that bad. I'm sure a bunch worse shit could have happen, but I never truly became catatonic, at high doses words are harder to form (mild to moderate aphasia), and my co-coordination and memory goes to shit, I get amused like a baby at the most simple things. It's actually kind of fun in a way, but I prefer to maintain full control. That's why I like the slightly stimulated, low spectrum hypo-manic dosages where there is no slow down of your actual mental faculties.


See, that actually sounds like it's kind of what I'm looking for with this substance. Reaching a catatonic state doesn't worry me, in fact that might even be the height of what I'm looking for in pushing the dose, but that seems unlikely to happen with this particular chemical.

The "memory goes to shit" part is the really troubling part as that is probably very close to the point where you can enter a fugue state and that is what worries me the most and has kept me relatively restrained. I've lost my shit on dissociatives before, but never on something that could have me both blacked out and mobile. I'm sure that is where the truly horrifying shit takes place.

If I'm dosing infrequently (once a week at most), do the more experienced members think a single dose in the 25-30mg range is "safe" for me, given that I have reached that point and not had any problems with memory, and still been cognizant enough to, for example, operate a steam cleaner to clean up cat vomit and recognize that it's 3 AM and I should probably go to sleep?

Is the dose response curve so sharp that in working my way up from 25mg, I should limit myself to a 1mg increase per trial, or would 5mg increments be reasonable? I realize 1mg increments are probably the wisest in the spirit of HR, and probably no one is going to chime in and say "Yeah sure go ahead and ramp it up by 5mg at a time," but I'm curious if anyone has any idea of where the cut-off point between dissociation and insanity lies for a moderately tolerant individual. This is probably a question that can only be answered by the individual in question, but I still have to ask.

I'm overall unimpressed with my research on this material thus far, but am interested in further exploration of the resuscitory effects it has on the psychedelic experience during a comedown.
 

lolwhatzdrugs

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Is the dose response curve so sharp that in working my way up from 25mg, I should limit myself to a 1mg increase per trial, or would 5mg increments be reasonable? I realize 1mg increments are probably the wisest in the spirit of HR, and probably no one is going to chime in and say "Yeah sure go ahead and ramp it up by 5mg at a time," but I'm curious if anyone has any idea of where the cut-off point between dissociation and insanity lies for a moderately tolerant individual. This is probably a question that can only be answered by the individual in question, but I still have to ask.

I'm overall unimpressed with my research on this material thus far, but am interested in further exploration of the resuscitory effects it has on the psychedelic experience during a comedown.

Yes, it's really that shrap. It will at a certain 1 or 2 mg increase completely qualatively change the entire experience from what I describe as mild hypomania into something quite a bit different. Unless you have a sober (weed is ok, but no other drugs for them, even alcohol. Monitoring you in this crazy state will require their entire mental faculty - thin Datura/Jimsonweed fucked up, only with IMO less bodily danger than an anticholinergic overdose) sitter to spend the entire experience with you, then +5 mg every 45 minutes to 1.5 hours should be ok, but it is always safer for you to add less, like .5 mg and decrease the time between doses just a little bit. I have no tolerance so it's hard for me to say when you'll cross that threshold into 'fucking crazyville.'

I would compare the experience to the words of a Porcupine Tree song (these words, though the whole songs lyrics might fit as well "arriving somewhere, but not here," :)
NSFW:

Did you imagine the final sound as a gun?
Or the smashing windscreen of a car?
Did you ever imagine the last thing you'd hear as you're fading out was a song?

All my designs, simplified
And all of my plans, compromised
All of my dreams, sacrificed

Ever had the feeling you've been here before?
Drinking down the poison the way you were taught
Every thought from here on in your life begins
And all you knew was wrong?

Arriving somewhere but not here

All my designs, simplified
And all of my plans, compromised
All of my dreams, sacrificed

Did you see the red mist block your path?
Did the scissors cut a way to your heart?
Did you feel the envy for the sons of mothers tearing you apart?
NSFW:



*embedded vids are not allowed outside of nsfw tags, thnx*

and my co-coordination

I just realize I stuttered in an online post. Super irony is it is for that word :p


I haven't even taken any of this substance in a week +


lol:p%)8(8(%):plol
 
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wayab

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my bad experiences have been from multiple doses combined with sleep deprivation.
i think(could very well be fooling myself) that i have learned how to use it without error
 

InterestingFACT

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When you folks talk about multiple dosing/redosing, what is causing this dosing pattern for you? Is a single dose causing amnesia--therefore triggeringa binge, or is it so significantly lowering inhibitions that's it's hard to resist redosing, or is it very addictive/strong urge to redose, or is it just uninformed/reckless dosing (ie. dosing again before peak, dosing on consecutive days).

The reason I ask is this: bearing in mind that I believe myself to have a reasonable degree of self control and could normally resist the urge to redose for the sake of safety concerns, is this a compound that I should limit my access to? By this I mean, for example, locking up/giving to a friend my stock except for the dose I'm taking. This would be a pain if not necessary, but of course is much better than a trip to the icu.
 

FlawedByDesign

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^The only time I really feel the need to redose is when I've used more than 20mgs. Anything below that leaves me content and makes for a good night. I always end up blacking out on higher doses by redosing myself into oblivion
 

MundaneDivinity

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^ That. If I take a low dose I have no problem keeping it at that. If I'm shooting for an intense experience, the urge to redose is much stronger because I don't think it ever gets me quite as far as I want to go. When you're dealing with large doses, I could easily see amnesic redosing becoming a big problem fast.

If you tend to be impulsive when it comes to redosing, I'd recommend staying away from this material altogether. Even if you have strong self-control, stick to low doses or single large doses. In fact, even with small doses you should strongly consider a no-redose rule for yourself, including taking whatever precautions are necessary to make sure that you don't break that rule. This stuff stays in your system for a long time, so even repeated low doses over a single experience could land you in dangerous territory (ie. compulsive and/or amnesic redosing).

As for dosing on consecutive days, I don't find this to be a problem for me because the experience just isn't that interesting or valuable. In that respect, as always, YMMV.
 
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pharmakos

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as far as i know i never did amnestic redosing. but yeah, otherwise its like they said -- if i'm going for a big dose i always feel like i can do just a bit more after the initial dose... eventually nickel and diming myself to a blackout.

the really high dose experiences were INCREDIBLY fascinating to me btw. its like psychedelics make you FEEL like you're one with infinity, but high dose 3-MeO-PCP made me ACTUALLY one with infinity. i didn't remember anything but i knew i was everything and forever. very intoxicating feeling. i just wish the physical part of my existence didn't end up getting up and walking around doing stupid shit while the mental part was off reaching to the edge of existence.
 
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