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The Big & Dandy 25I-NBOMe Thread

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skillet

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Are you sure it's the salt? It shouldn't be that much different in solubility.
 

Solipsis

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psykap, you provided a number of dosage ranges in a few NBOMe threads like 25T4 and a few others but I worry that if tolerance builds up more extremely with this class of psychedelics that you might be mentioning doses that would make it seem like the potency is not very high. That could be dangerous for people who start experimenting without NBOMe tolerance.

So my question is: have you recenty revisited an NBOMe compound that was one of those you started off with, to check how much the needed dose has changed? I'm interested to know.
 

psood0nym

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^Good call. I remember lamenting this problem in the 25C-NBOMe thread. Extreme tolerance develops to redosing over just an hour or so, and I don't know how long it takes to go back down to near normal. I recall Erny saying something like a week or two (once, after establishing extreme tolerance to 25C first, I IM'd 3 or 4 mg over a couple hours just to see how strong the tolerance is, and barely felt an uptick in the effects from my initial couple of doses despite the massive redoses). So for each NBOME, you need to titrate up your dose, and start over with reset tolerance for every increase. Assuming you had all the free time in the world, you might expect to take almost a month for each NBOMe to properly establish dosages (probably much longer for most of us). Not to mention there's the issue of getting consistent dose measurements with compounds active in the sub-milligram range just using a milligram scale and liquid measurement, especially considering you need to make a different liquid solution for each new NBOMe compound.
 

shishigami

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Are you sure it's the salt? It shouldn't be that much different in solubility.

Err? I disagree. Think of DPT freebase which is not at all soluble in water and DPT HCl which is very soluble. Do you have any evidence to support that claim?
 

skillet

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I mean the solubility of the HCl salt of 25I- shouldn't be that much different to that of the HCl salt of 25C-. If it's so insoluble maybe it's the freebase?

Sorry if I said it badly before.
 

shishigami

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I mean the solubility of the HCl salt of 25I- shouldn't be that much different to that of the HCl salt of 25C-. If it's so insoluble maybe it's the freebase?

Sorry if I said it badly before.

Ah sorry, that was probably my thought, I just saw that and was like woah what's that mean.

I hope to have a smidgeon of this coming soon and am eager to try it with the liquid insufflation method.
 

psykap

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Solipsis I am making a 2-3 week interval between next trip on NBOMes so dont worry about excessive doses ;) Of course people more sensitive should reduce doses .
By the way I noticed that the tolerance for 25D-NBOMe remains the shortest of all the family (similar like other phenethylamines )
As someone wrote. tolerance grows rapidly

Yes this 25I is HCL very tiny crystal .
100 mg looks like 25 mg 25C .
25C is very good soluble in ethanol ,much worse in the water , but with this stuff is much worse.
Maybe should I use acetone ?
 
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greenmeanies

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as others have suggested, try adding a drop of acetic acid (white vinegar) to your water and see what happens. at least one other poster has reported that his 25I must be freebase, so yours might be freebase as well. freebase compounds do not dissolve in water unless you add acid to form the salt form! :)
 

psykap

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If it were freebase should be inactive intranasally but it wasnt .
I felt light - medium effects but I dont know how dose I took because solution was not saturated but I think that it can be approx 500 mcg .Most white precipitate was at the bottom of the bottle
Probably whole 25I in EU/US/CA is coming from one source .
From what I know freebase isnt available from any vendor.
On MSDS is written that is HCL . Ok I will try to add acetic acid and We'll see what comes up
 

allium

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If it were freebase should be inactive intranasally but it wasnt .
Are there any reasons to believe that specifically 25I-NBOMe freebase is inactive?
I'm asking this, because people snort 5-MeO-DMT fb with great success.
 

reformer

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I'm a bit puzzled why there seems to be so much difficulty getting 25I into aqueous solution, given that the material in question is the HCl salt and not the freebase.

I pulled this from another thread (25C), but it has relevance here due to the apparent difficulties in producing a solution of 25I.

The poster uses ~8.5 mg/ml for many NBOMe now and has no problems "solving" HCl salts of the 25C, 25D, or 25E at this concentration. 25E (the least soluble in water) takes a bit of uniform agitation (i.e. vortexing) over a few minutes to go into solution, but reasonable room temperature and no heat is required or should be applied.

That info does not recommend going higher concentration than 8.5 mg/ml for 25E, but guesses that 25C will be soluble up to 9-10 mg/ml (no guarantees).

It's just hard to imagine that the "I" iodine moiety could be more hydrophobic and difficult to solubilize than 25E's ethyl group was. I imagine that 25I should go into solution at least to ~6-8 mg/ml, based on the solubilities of 25C, 25D and 25E. I could be way off base here, but I don't think so.

What level of concentration are people trying to achieve? Are you guys trying like 6-8 mg/ml or are you trying much higher concentrations?

BTW- There is a huge difference between vortexing in a small conical tube and simply shaking to mix in any old container.
 

Addam

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I was only trying to get 1mg/mL. Did not go without lowering the pH. It's got me stumped as well.
 

skillet

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Reformer and Allium - yeah exactly. Addam, if it dissolved when the pH was lowered then it probably is the freebase. How easily does it melt? I'd expect the freebase to melt in boiling water (I don't know that the melting point is below 100 degrees, but it seems likely and would be an easy test) while the HCl salt melts just below 170 degrees C.
 

Xtc <3

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Looking at getting some of this shortly, will have to do alot more research once it arrives in order to dose it correctly.

Question though, im reading about the rapid tolerance acquired to this stuff that seems to last a week or two, does that cause cross tolerance to other psychedelics?

Like for example if you were to start off banging heroin before trying other opiates then you would never get to experience the pleasures of a milder opiod like codeine.

Could this create a similar scenario in which it could ruin the effects of some of the 'milder' psychedelics that dont cause tolerance to build so rapidly.

If it does then I might just keep this one in the collection for a while.

Cheers
 

Addam

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I think it's reasonable to assume some sort of psychedelic cross-tolerence will occur. However I don't think it is akin to heroin 'ruining' milder opioids. This tolerance will not be permanent. Just give it a break in between substances.
I just used 5-MeO-DALT this weekend (which is pretty much the codeine of psychedelics ;) ) and was still able to enjoy it for what it was even though I used 25I several weeks ago.
 

Ralt

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This will be a brief write-up ;)
650 mcg of 25I-NBOMe was administered by IM injection in the deltoid.
Contrary to earlier reports about a long come-up even with IM, I was at a ++ in 2 minutes and achieved +++ in ~5 minutes. It continued to increase in intensity for ~20 minutes at which point it leveled off. Visuals were extremely detailed, but vision had a slight blurry quality to it. Each object in the room, despite not having a terribly different appearance, was surrounded by what I can only describe as a very textured aura, with a seeming vibrating/pulsating character to it.
CEVs were fantastic; I would find myself in a 3 dimensional space with spires rising, changing and coming together in the center. I also experienced some lovely visions of people (not people I knew) and some of erotic character.
Thought process was not as deep as 25D-NBOMe, but it may have been the situation that day, as I didn't exactly dedicate a lot of time to thinking about things as I normally do and wasn't in seclusion as I normally prefer for these experiences ;) . I was able to function pretty well with others and ended up venturing outside towards the end of the experience.
While walking outside I noticed a nice feeling, not of euphoria but just of genuine contentment and satisfaction with who I was and how I have been living my life. I felt very fortunate.
There wasn't really much for negative effects. A slight tremor or shakiness was encountered at a couple points, but it wasn't bothersome and passed quickly. No negative body-load or nausea at any point.
After a 2 hour plateau, effects began to gradually decrease, visuals were only faint at 4 hours and by 5 hours I felt comfortable enough to drive for some tobacco. There was a lingering humor for the rest of the day, things just seemed good-natured and funny to me.
It seems there must be a subtle stimulation because after the experience had subsided I set to work detailing my home, which is something I definitely would not do under normal circumstances, lol. But certainly not an overt stimulation.
I enjoyed this substance and I could see it being a regular on my calender, although next time I will raise the dosage to perhaps 750mcg.
Perhaps another experience with a higher dosage and an environment more conducive to reflection will allow this substance to show more of the depth that it hinted at.

This excites me a lot to acquire 25I, especially with such a positive report with IM dosing, I've fallen in love with this ROA since finding MXE and after I experiment with 25I I can't wait to combine both in an I.M. shot.
 

Na'vi

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Got a sample of this on the way. Does anyone have any sort of time frame for effects from insufflated doses? Was thinking 500mcg to start with.
 

tregar

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Weight: approximately 200lbs, dosage: 350ug. It felt similar to around 100ug of acid, prefer all my acid trips to be around 175ug, so next time will use around 450 to 500ug of HPBCD-complexed 25i-nbome via the same upper gum buccal route. Have previous experience (years ago) with HPBCD-complexed testosterone, and also used various cyclodextrin-based pro-hormones such as Ergopharm's patented "cyclo-diol" (creator elite chemist Patrick Arnold), highly effective. These were widely available before the Pro-hormone ban which took place during Bush years. Testosterone & pro-hormones are all hydrophobic (water-fearing) drugs like 25i-nbome.

Several weeks earlier, 100mg of 25i-nbome had been added to 100ml of 95% etoh (drinkable alcohol) and also added 1000mg (1g) of HPBCD (hydroxy-propyl-beta-cyclodextrin) powder as well, allowed it all to magnetically stir for 24 hours, even though 8 hours would have been fine. Stored away in freezer. I would recommend to future researchers to simply add 100mg of 25i-nbome to 50ml of 95% etoh (instead of 100ml of 95% etoh) for a final drug ratio of 200ug per each 0.100ml on the insulin syringe. If so desired, 1000mg of HPBCD could be added as well, then stir it all for around 8 hours, though I let it stir for 24 hours.

Tried an entirely brand new BUCCAL experiment. Most successful ROA to date. I would venture to say that HPBCD-complexed 25i-nbome does indeed achieve 95% absorption when left on the upper buccal gum surface in 20 minutes.

Got fed up with nas*cort spray bottles breaking after only a couple experiments, not being able to get all the solution out via spray pumps, the etoh nasal burn, etc, etc.

1) a blotter was prepared from a 2" long x 3/8" wide piece of #103 filter paper was cut from a #103 filter disc.

3) Approximately 5 mg of HPBCD (hydroxy-propyl-beta-cyclodextrin) powder was put on the edge of a card and lightly "sprinkled" back and forth onto the 2" long filter paper blotter that was held suspended horizontally by a clothespin.

4) then 0.350ml of the etoh solution (350ug of drug) was sucked up via insulin syringe and deposited back and forth on top the cyclodextrin powder that adhered to the 2" long filter paper blotter, it was then allowed to dry for 15 minutes as described below.

5) Then placed the "sticky/glossy" blotter in front of a Holmes ac powdered fan heater and the strip was completely dry (except for the sticky HPBCD clear resin on the surface) in 15 minutes.

7) Placed on upper gum (like you would similar to a crest whitening strip) and did not taste hardly any etoh whatsoever, there was 0% burn, indicating that nearly all of the etoh did indeed evaporate leaving only sticky sugary HPBCD complexed drug on the blotter (as would be expected).

If HPBCD does indeed cause 95% sublingual absorption of hydrophic drugs in 20 minutes (pitha, joseph. study on HPBCD complexed testosterone) then I should feel the 350ug of drug quite well.

I have read many reports of HPBCD powder in the past working simply by overlaying the drug & a bit of water over the powder and allowing it to "sit and complex" over a course of less than an hour (old bodybuilding forums). In this case, I overlayed the etoh dissolved drug solution onto the cyclodextrin powder which simply laid on top the filter blotter paper.

---------

it worked.

6:20 applied buccal strip.
7:50 it hit with full force, full effects felt.

This is my best experience (and best ROA, route of administration) with this molecule to date, tripped much harder than last time (the nasal experiment)..

Have noticed with the iodo-molecule, it takes 1.5 hour for it to hit full-force, that is when it starts working very well. pupils larger at 1.5 hours, the HPBCD-complexed 350ug of etoh dissolved drug applied buccaly for 20 minutes works excellent. Felt the deep shining empathogenic qualities of the 25i-nbome for the entire trip, making it quite magical. This along with the normal visual, audial, mental effects. Music sounded amazing as well.

Tripped way harder than last time due to lowered tolerance. Will never go back to the nasal method, the HPBCD-complexed molecule bucally applied works with the same potency as nasal. FYI: Have seen hydroxy-propyl beta cyclodextrin powder still available on auction sites now and then, but other than that it is hard to find.

The Joseph Pitha study showed that when testosterone was complexed with hydroxy-propyl-beta-cyclodextrin, that 95% absorption was achieved in 20 minutes via the sublingual route, whereas normally hydrophobic testosterone is absorbed less than around 40% normally via sublingual route.

How HPBCD (hydroxy-propyl-beta-cyclodextrin) works to significantly improve buccal/sublingual
absorption:

http://www.pharmainfo.net/reviews/cy...systems-update

http://www.aapspharmscitech.org/view.asp?art=pt060243

Think of it as like a "molecular condom" that fits the drug so that it can be delivered across sublingual/buccal membranes with significantly improved efficiency.

Out of all the RC's to make it down the pipeline over the many years, this one is a shining star. It would be nice to perhaps add some 5-ht1a agonism in the future, but that could be done with possible low-dose combination of 4-ho-mipt for example, as that compound is mind-manifesting, deep intellectually. Other than that, 25i has all the other fine attributes of lucy, including the deep empathogenic qualities for the entire duration of the experience, increased music appreciation, etc.

There are actually a couple places (outside of auction sites ) that directly have Hydroxypropyl Beta Cyclodextrin. In any case, there are hundreds of research papers on the science of HPBCD, "Trappsol" and other fancy sounding brand names are currently used for the stuff these days it seems.
 
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blowjay

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Glad you posted that, I was very excited to see that when it was originally posted on Drug Forums. I wish more would come in though.
 
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