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The Big & Dandy 25I-NBOMe Thread (2nd edition)

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Solipsis

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This thread has become too big and been closed. it is continued in the next thread here.
Welcome to The Big & Dandy 25I-NBOMe Thread (second edition)
(previous thread)



Subthreads:
Trip Reports:
External Links:

25X-NBOMe, 25X-NBOH SAFETY MESSAGE




This is a newly discovered group of chemicals, with little history of human use.
It has already become clear that these substances carry substantial risks that must be highlighted.

Examples of chemicals belonging to this family include 25i-NBOMe, 25c-NBOMe, 25i-NBOH, 25c-NBOH.
Nicknames include "25i", "25c", N-bomb, N-bome etc.

Some facts you should know about The 25X - NBOMe series:

25x NBOMe chemicals have killed at "normal" recreational doses.
  • We don't know how it kills.
  • People have died from doses that are smaller than ones they've taken in the past.
  • We don't know the reasons why it is so unpredictable yet.
Doses can lead to psychotic episodes and ER visits
  • If you or people around you must take these drugs, avoid combinations and advise others to avoid it as well.
  • If someone appears to be overdosing, it is important to get medical attention quickly to minimize chance of death or injury.
These chemicals are sometimes mislabeled and sold as LSD or "acid"
  • If in doubt about your drugs, learn how to test them using testing kits/reagents. Don't have blind faith in the reputation of your source.
  • A good rule of thumb these days is "if it's bitter it's a spitter"
  • If you take blotters sold as LSD, swallowing them may render NBOMe type compounds inactive while swallowing LSD will work just as well!
25x is difficult to dose properly
  • Tolerance builds quickly, but toxicity may still occur.
  • Doses can often be unpredictable and uneven, even from the same sheet.
  • There is an unknown but narrow margin between a fun dose, and an overdose.
  • Reactions may vary wildly between individuals, but can also be inconsistent for the same person. Previous successful experiences offer no guarantees.

NBOMe substances are cheap and widely available, however they are not well understood, and have caused a number of deaths. There are safer and (arguably) better substances to begin with than these. Know your drugs, do your research, and spread the word!


And finally information for people pushing the dosage with NBOMe's:


The NBOMe series is known to be more dangerous than other psychedelic drug families. High doses can easily result in severe reactions such as seizures and HPPD. It is possible to get away with high doses because the mental component of the trip is mild so it may not feel as intense as other psychedelics even though there are powerful visuals. In order to try and overcome this some users take several doses to get a more intense/spiritual experience. While this does work for some, for others this is where the serious side-effects emerge.

As a result of this it is recommended that if you are seeking an intense experience, something more than eye candy, you select a different psychedelic with a higher natural intensity and better safety record such as 2C-E or LSD.

It is strongly advised that users do not take more than 1.5 doses of this drug, with one dose generally agreed to be x.x mg (xxxxu g).

Insufflating doses further increases the risk.

Taken From Wikipedia

25I-NBOMe acts as a highly potent agonist for the human 5-HT2A receptor, with a Ki of 0.044 nM, making it some sixteen times the potency of 2C-I itself, and a radiolabelled form of 25I-NBOMe can be used for mapping the distribution of 5-HT2A receptors in the brain
Sixteen times the potency of 2C-I

Warning: This chemical is active in the microgram (µg) range! Please use extreme caution if working with this substance, a milligram scale and liquid measurement is VITAL! Please start with doses of 500µg or less!
 
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Solipsis

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Here is where we left off...

As you point out yourself, using that teknique to lay blotters will cause them to be unevenly laid. Some of them are going to be a lot stronger than others.

I'd say the only way to get them completely evenly laid is too use a uL micropipetor. Unless you make the blotters really big, like 5 cm X 5 cm, then I guess you could use a syringe and lay 1 ml on it.
So i ordered 50mg of 25i hcl from a trusted source...

I have a few q´s though


1. Is there any idea to complex this or will it work ok? i would prefer to be able to use bucal ingestion but if snorted is alot better sure.

2. i will put this in a small dropper but what should i use for long term storage? i can´t get any alkohol over 40% here but would vodka work?
1. it works good without complex.
buccal is fine. maybe it is a little less potent but it will last longer.

2. 40% etoh is fine. you can put it in the fridge or freezer to be extra sure.
one thing i have been thinking recently is that it is very important to keep your long-term solution in a beaker or something metered so you can watch for evaporation. keep a piece of paper with the solution that indicates the amount of liquid that was in the beaker last time you used it.
(i think someone put some tips about this in the DOC thread)

it is best to make a weak solution so that you can easily dose in 100 ug increments until you know what your sensitivity to this drug is. it is very variable among people.
Well I have a whole gram of the stuff and I wanna put it into blotters. Before it gets brought up, I don't intend on selling or distributing it in any way, this is just for my personal life-time supply. I only bought a gram because it was dirt cheap and figured what the hell to having a life time supply of a psychedelic, ya know? Anyways, if I dilute 1 gram into vinegar, how would I measure it out from that liquid to make doses of 500 mics per blotter? How stable is the acetic acid, and how good is the bioavailability in relation to HCL or Citrate? Thanks for the replies, they are most helpful. I just want to make sure everything is done correctly and safely.
Work out how much fluid a sheet of blotter holds. You want your solution to have that volume and contain 500ug x the number of individual blotters on the sheet. Then absorb it into the sheet of blotter. I've never laid blotter, though, and I'm sure there's more to it than that. For one, I don't know how you avoid the doses at the edges of the sheet ending up more potent than those in the middle. Please, everyone, be careful, if you're not 100% confident that you know what you're doing then don't do it.
Thanks for the info. Would love to hear from somebody who's actually laid blotter with this stuff though. As I said, I want to be as safe as possible. Obviously I don't want to harm myself, so I'm taking every cautionary step possible. If someone could chime in and help me out a bit more, that'd be great.
There's a vendor ,on a forum that shall not be named here, who is about to sell 25i-nbome hydro-citrate/acetate dropper bottles. 100 drops pr. bottle.
Anyways, he claims that it's in the hydrocitrate form, which supposedly should increase oral activity by 70%. Could some body with a little chemistry knowledge explain what hydrocitrate/acetate is? And could this possibly have anything to it?

Here's what the vendor says:
"if one was to use a hydrocitrate/acetate solution on a oral test on a labrat (not legal to do in the u.s. due to FDA restrictions on animal testing mind you, so not recomended) then one would find that 25i in hydro-citrate/acetate form is about 70% orally available rather then buccal or sublingual as even the best complexed freebases are. "
 

psychonauss

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I have made a solution and I found the maximum solubility on water to be about 1.7mg/ml, is it normal? I thought it was a lot higher... I have the HCl salt...
 

cryptix420

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While I've done LSD, mushrooms & DMT more than a few times, and absolutely loved & cherished each and every experience in it's own unique way, none of them have touched my life like 25i-NBOMe. I literally (and I do mean literally) saw my soul and the soul of my girlfriend whilst under the influence of 25i. Prior to that experience I had been struggling with my spirituality and was more or less an atheist (such a depressing outlook on life and the universe btw).

I don't want to get to deep into it and start writing a trip report, but I basically saw my girlfriend's aura as these purple strands, they began reaching into me and into my mind, body, & soul. SOUL! What a novel concept it was. I do believe we all have souls now. This opened me up to so many positive ways of thinking (there is a reason for everything, there is a higher power/forces in the universe, etc.). I discusssed 25i with my friend who was also of the atheist view and considered LSD the best you could get. Once I gave him some potent 25i blotters he got back to me saying "I felt very spiritual during the trip, and I never experience that. You were right."

This experience opened me up to so much....souls, REAL spirituality, psychic abilities, energy, and much more that I cannot put into words.

Anyway, let's not discount 25i as having some very, very serious therapeutic potential. <3
 

SONN

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I dosed a bunch of blotters individually by dropping the solution on each individual little piece of watercolor paper, it was very tedious and time consuming.

I'm pretty sure what you have to do in order to dose a sheet all at once is make the solution and put it in a really shallow container (like a bird bath kind of) and just put your sheet in it and absorb the liquid. I'm not sure if there is any way that you can be positive that all the liquid is going to absorb though, so I recommend using the most absorbent watercolor paper you can find and try to make your solution as potent as possible.

so if you have 100 mg and you manage to dissolve it in like 10 mL then you let that fully absorb into a piece of watercolor paper that is 10 cm x 10 cm each square centimeter should have 1 mg on it unless you got paper that is more absorbent in some areas than others in which case you're going to have 'hot pockets.'

The thing that's so stressful about dosing bulk amounts of blotters is because it seems really easy to mess it up somewhere along the way and potentially lose tons of money.
 

Incunabula

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so if you have 100 mg and you manage to dissolve it in like 10 mL then you let that fully absorb into a piece of watercolor paper that is 10 cm x 10 cm each square centimeter should have 1 mg on it unless you got paper that is more absorbent in some areas than others in which case you're going to have 'hot pockets.'
Yeah, I'm pretty sure there's not going to be the same amount of 25i on each square centimeter. it's going to be unevely laid.
 

Vader

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The edges will dry out faster than the middle. As that happens, the solution will wick from the centre towards the edges, leaving the centre relatively depleted and the the edges relatively enriched. At least, that's what I think would happen, I've no experience.
 

Incunabula

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idk how reasonable it is to use this vid as a reference but he uses the technique I mentioned above to dose his LSD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXAKijc1Vmc
Yeah, but your forgetting one thing. LSD is probably THE psychedelic with the most benign dose/response curve. I don't know with 25i, but it definitely doesn't seem as lenient. Same with the DOx's.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dose-response_relationship

If I was you, I'd find a way of making sure that it get's evenly distributed. Especialy if you were considering to ever give any of your blotters to friends.
 

mechanizmz

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Does anyone know what the % bio-availability of the salt versus the % bio-availability of the freebase form is? I'm torn between salt blotter and complexed freebase blotter. I've heard that since the chloride salt is already soluble it gets up to 85% absorption bucally yet freebase complexed with HPBCD not only makes the drug soluble but also speeds up the process of drug absorbtion through thicker bucal tissue giving it the same or better potency absorption yet quicker delivery to be recieved at the lipophilic membrane and released into the blood. Also, why is the ratio of moles HPBCD: 25i 2:1? (ie 9:1 mass ratio) I think the theory goes that if the drug is surrounded from two ends by two sugar rings, then it's fully complexed and that's good. From what i've read I would imagine that one ring surrounding each drug molecule would be sufficient to make the hydrophobic drug soluble. Then with only one ring pulling on the drug, the fatty membrane that absorbs it will have an easier time pulling it off from the HPBCD. Any thoughts/ criticisms/ contradictions?
 

SONN

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when I made my 25i/25c blotters I carefully dropped the exact amount of solution onto each individual blotter and it was very successful but tedious, that's why I was suggesting a more time-effective method.

Maybe perforated blotters have a lot less likely of a chance for those 'hot pockets?'
 

zn13bt

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Does anyone know what the % bio-availability of the salt versus the % bio-availability of the freebase form is? I'm torn between salt blotter and complexed freebase blotter.
The freebase by itself isn't soluble in water, and doesn't seem to be absorbed very well when ingested, according to a lot of the posts in the beginning of the first B&D thread. Either converting it to a salt, or complexing it with HPBCD, have both been shown to make it bioavailable. But there is no evidence that complexing is actually better than converting to a salt. I have used the acetate salt buccally, and it was a full-on trip at 800ug with first alerts starting about 15 minutes after I applied the blotter. I doubt that the complexed form would kick in faster or be more potent.
 

mechanizmz

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the reason the salt form is soluble and bioavailable is because salts ionize in aqueous solution (your mouth). the type of acid in my opinion would be irrelevant because the action is the same, the salt ion polarizes the 25-i so that it may dissolve in water even though it is regularly hydrophobic. The 25-i reaches the hydrophobic membrane of the buccal or sublingual tissue that regulates what comes in and out and is absorbed because of its hydrophobic end. HPBCD is not a small attachment to polarize the 25-i molecule, it is a large sugar ring with a shit ton of hydrogens pointing out in every direction. The outside of the ring is hydrophilic which is why it is soluble in water. The inside of the ring is hydrophobic and can therefore house many kinds of hydrophobic compounds that are small enough to fit inside the ring. The complex of HPBCD and 25-i is not a chemical reaction however, the smaller structure is held inside the ring by attractive forces within and repulsive forces from the exterior aqueous or hydrophillic surrounding. Now there's a complex that is soluble in our saliva, if the blotter is on a membrane in the mouth the thin layer of saliva trapped between the paper and the tissue acts as a bridge dissolving the complex and presenting the hydrophilic drug disguised in a hydrophilic shell to the hydrophobic wall that will accept the drug through attractive forces just like it would the salt ion. This is why I am convinced complexed NBOME is atleast as bioavailable as the salt. The grey area comes in on other research I've found on HPBCD. It suggested that the cholesterol that regulates the permeability of all cell membranes is affected by HPBCD. The HPBCD can let go of a compound within its ring onto the membrane wall to be absorbed. However it can also remove a cholesterol molecule or alter the permeability of the membrane on the exposed area by somehow affecting the cholesterol molecules on the outside of the tissue forcing them apart to let in more than it would. But there's not a lot of closely related research to this sort of application of HPBCD so I don't know if its applicable here or not. Has anyone stumbled upon any research on HPBCD as a means to sublingually or buccally administer a drug or enhance the bioavaliablity of a drug that already permeates to some degree?
 

biffhenderson

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I'm new on Bluelight so I hope this is the appropriate place for my question.

I have significant experience using low to moderate doses of LSD and magic mushrooms while doing endurance exercise. My question is, from what we know about the 25x-nbomes is there anything I need to be concerned about mixing the drug and maybe 6 hours of cardio for a person like myself fit enough to do that anyway? I've heard some mention of temperature regulation issues like feeling very hot. Could the drug increase my chance of heat exhaustion on a hot day? Should I think of this like an amphetamine as far as it's effect on my heart while exercising? I'm only asking about the effects on the body. I fully understand how to stay within my limits as far as running or hiking or cycling while while under the influence of a psychedelic.
 
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Incunabula

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I'm posing this question again to anyone with a little bit of chemistry knowledge, as I think it's pretty important. if no one can answer I might take it over to ADD.

Remember, there's a difference between bio availability and oral availability. if what this vendor says holds true, 25i could be taken just like LSD. And not buccal or sublingual.

My original post.
There's a vendor ,on a forum that shall not be named here, who is about to sell 25i-nbome hydro-citrate/acetate dropper bottles. 100 drops pr. bottle.
Anyways, he claims that it's in the hydrocitrate form, which supposedly should increase oral activity by 70%. Could some body with a little chemistry knowledge explain what hydrocitrate/acetate is? And could this possibly have anything to it?

Here's what the vendor says:
"if one was to use a hydrocitrate/acetate solution on a oral test on a labrat (not legal to do in the u.s. due to FDA restrictions on animal testing mind you, so not recomended) then one would find that 25i in hydro-citrate/acetate form is about 70% orally available rather then buccal or sublingual as even the best complexed freebases are. "
 

Transform

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BS meter is going a bit wild regarding those claims.

There is no reason that this should be the case, as the strong HCl in the stomach will quickly produce the citrate salt from those anyway. Even if they were to remain as these salts, the liver isn't bothered by the anion and would break them down as normal. Give it a go, but you can produce either at home with lemon juice or white vinegar.
 

JaneDoe2290

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What's the deal on storing 25i-nbome dissolved in vinegar? Long term, probably months to a year or more. Should I add alcohol to prevent bacterial growth? Should I put it in the freezer, fridge or is room temp fine? I read on here that once a salt it's really stable and is fine in room temp for a long time, but figured more opinions couldn't hurt.
 
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