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The Big and Dandy NBOMe-2C-C (25C-NBOMe) Thread

uncomfortablepants

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Jan 25, 2006
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I'm wondering what a good dose would be to start with, besides allergy testing. It seems people are shooting for the 350-500ug range. How hard are you tripping on, say, 350ug compared to 500ug?

Also, I have been thinking that maybe sublingual absorption has similar issues to salvinorin, meaning that bioavailability could be greatly increased by using mouthwashes etc. prior to dosing.


Intranasally, yeah, 350-500ug seems like a good start for most people here.

The most I've taken so far was 330ug with mxe. It was just touching on open eye visuals at that level, I remember the ground bubbling at one point and the sky flickering between inverted and normal colors, and the stimulation wasn't too pushy, although I would liked to have slept sooner.

I'm not sure how much the mxe potentiated but it definately helped create a calm sort of void for the effects to manifest.





the sublingual effects do seem to vary a lot.
 

reformer

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The liquid I would optimally want to use is 96% EtOH

A couple of questions- Why do you want to use nearly pure ethanol? Why not simply use distilled water?

If it's for storage purposes I can understand your goal, but even then I would ditch the ethanol and instead recommend making a water solution (no alcohol) and then dividing it up into several "aliquots" before freezing them until needed. 100-200 ul aliquots in polypropylene tubes are perfect, use larger aliquots if you share with fellow psychonauts.

These aliquots will be good for 3-4 freeze/thaw cycles if you re-freeze it immediately after drawing your single use out: e.g. you can thaw one and then draw from it, then re-freeze it... and repeat the process at least 2-3 times without losing apparent potency.

Make absolute sure that you pipette the freshly thawed solution up and down several times to make it homogeneous.

96% EtOH... and since I will only ingest 20-40uL (intranasally, probably), it won't burn too bad. Is this correct?

I think it's still a bad idea... That isn't healthy or sustainable.


reformer reports someone as saying that 6-7mg per mL water has been successfully done for the HCl.

That info has since been updated as the poster uses ~8.5 mg/ml for many NBOMe now and has no problems "solving" HCl salts of the 25C, 25D, or 25E at this concentration. 25E (the least soluble in water) takes a bit of uniform agitation (i.e. vortexing) over a few minutes to go into solution, but reasonable room temperature and no heat is required or should be applied.

That info does not recommend going higher concentration than 8.5 mg/ml for 25E, but guesses that 25C will be soluble up to 9-10 mg/ml (no guarantees).

Frankly, it seems that volumes of less than 30 ul don't work well for liquid insufflation. It's suggested to use 20 ul of distilled water to further dilute your "droplet" of 20 ul 25C to a final volume of 40 ul before insufflating the diluted solution. Then you can add larger proportion of 25C and less water in the 40 ul if you want to make the regimen stronger.

a 100ug per 1uL solution (this seems way out but I'm not an expert - reformer points out that its equal to 100mg/mL). Dondante did 50ug per uL.

100ug/ul = 100mg/ml = 100g/l

That is waaay out there. Since a ml weighs but 1 gram, they are proposing 5 and 10% weight per volume solutions which is unreasonable and likely not homogeneous, at least in water or even low-percentage ethanol.

And... There is absolutely no need for it.
 

IGNVS

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hadja self a goood tiiime didja? yessah had myself a verrrrry good timee :D


think its a bad idea to IV ~500ug of this stuff?

what would be preferred starting dose?
 
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any major dude

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I wouldn't exceed 250µg for a first IV experience, probably less. Honestly i'm not experienced with IM or IV ROAs, but there have been some pretty rich experiences at around 250µg bucally/sublingually with surfactant. I would guess this is still much less potent than IV.
 

psood0nym

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Given the extreme rapidity of onset through IM and liquid insufflated ROAs it may be worth doing IV. That is, it hits fast enough so increasing the speed of onset may take this drug into qualitative realms distinct from other ROAs -- like the way smoked or IV DMT is a whole new animal compared to insufflated or IM DMT.

Another serotonergic compound that could produce a "flash" like smoked DMT, but through a novel experiential avenue, would make quite an addition to our psychedelic arsenal. We have DET and MET, too , yes, but those seem to share many of DMT's attributes while lacking its distinctive panache. With the NBOMes we might just have a new angle of approach to the vision state. It's worth a shot.

And so, to answer IGNVS: Hell yes! Load the barrel, tie your tourniquet, and be the first human to kamikaze dive into the NBOMe elf orgy. Godspeed. I look forward to your survey of the wreckage.
 

MattPsy

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It's likely to be very similar to smoked, which I have plenty of experience with now, and the effects begin while you are still inhaling (or depressing the plunger, in your hypothetical case). Use 250ug as a maximum for the first time. Trust me, it will be plenty strong.

Oh yeah, i've smoked about 1.2mg (yes, 1200ug) of this stuff by accident before, and while the experience was extremely intense (I vomited during the comeup, and couldn't tell which way gravity was, etc), and beautiful, I did not get transported to hyperspace. Very "religious" (although I am very non-religious) and tactile. Massive time distortion. The the main period of intensity persisted for around 4 hours, so it's not like a IV (or smoked) DMT flash.
 
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Addam

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Aug 23, 2010
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Given the extreme rapidity of onset through IM and liquid insufflated ROAs it may be worth doing IV. That is, it hits fast enough so increasing the speed of onset may take this drug into qualitative realms distinct from other ROAs -- like the way smoked or IV DMT is a whole new animal compared to insufflated or IM DMT.

Another serotonergic compound that could produce a "flash" like smoked DMT, but through a novel experiential avenue, would make quite an addition to our psychedelic arsenal. We have DET and MET, too , yes, but those seem to share many of DMT's attributes while lacking its distinctive panache. With the NBOMes we might just have a new angle of approach to the vision state. It's worth a shot.

And so, to answer IGNVS: Hell yes! Load the barrel, tie your tourniquet, and be the first human to kamikaze dive into the NBOMe elf orgy. Godspeed. I look forward to your survey of the wreckage.

Lol, damn psood, if I hadn't already had two journeys already this weekend I'd be loading some 25I right away to see what that does. Perhaps this coming weekend ;)
 

uncomfortablepants

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Jan 25, 2006
Messages
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It's likely to be very similar to smoked, which I have plenty of experience with now, and the effects begin while you are still inhaling (or depressing the plunger, in your hypothetical case). Use 250ug as a maximum for the first time. Trust me, it will be plenty strong.

Oh yeah, i've smoked about 1.2mg (yes, 1200ug) of this stuff by accident before, and while the experience was extremely intense (I vomited during the comeup, and couldn't tell which way gravity was, etc), and beautiful, I did not get transported to hyperspace. Very "religious" (although I am very non-religious) and tactile. Massive time distortion. The the main period of intensity persisted for around 4 hours, so it's not like a IV (or smoked) DMT flash.


How did you smoke it?

and how does it compare in intensity to intranasal?

Also how long did you have residual effects?
 

lulzkiller

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First of all, thanks a bunch for all the helpful answers!

A couple of questions- Why do you want to use nearly pure ethanol? Why not simply use distilled water?

If it's for storage purposes I can understand your goal, but even then I would ditch the ethanol and instead recommend making a water solution (no alcohol) and then dividing it up into several "aliquots" before freezing them until needed. 100-200 ul aliquots in polypropylene tubes are perfect, use larger aliquots if you share with fellow psychonauts.

These aliquots will be good for 3-4 freeze/thaw cycles if you re-freeze it immediately after drawing your single use out: e.g. you can thaw one and then draw from it, then re-freeze it... and repeat the process at least 2-3 times without losing apparent potency.

Make absolute sure that you pipette the freshly thawed solution up and down several times to make it homogeneous.



I think it's still a bad idea... That isn't healthy or sustainable.

Freezing isn't an option (flatmate would not approve). That's why I have to store it in non-frozen liquid and I was thinking pure alcohol might do better than 10% or water. But given the health risks I'll probably just dilute some vodka or something to that effect.


That info has since been updated as the poster uses ~8.5 mg/ml for many NBOMe now and has no problems "solving" HCl salts of the 25C, 25D, or 25E at this concentration. 25E (the least soluble in water) takes a bit of uniform agitation (i.e. vortexing) over a few minutes to go into solution, but reasonable room temperature and no heat is required or should be applied.

That info does not recommend going higher concentration than 8.5 mg/ml for 25E, but guesses that 25C will be soluble up to 9-10 mg/ml (no guarantees).

Frankly, it seems that volumes of less than 30 ul don't work well for liquid insufflation. It's suggested to use 20 ul of distilled water to further dilute your "droplet" of 20 ul 25C to a final volume of 40 ul before insufflating the diluted solution. Then you can add larger proportion of 25C and less water in the 40 ul if you want to make the regimen stronger.

My current plan involves a 10mg/1mL solution, giving me squirts of 200ug per 20uL with my pipette. That is a total of 40uL for a full dose. Of course I will have to dilute it further when doing the preliminary safety testing. Do you have any idea of where might be sensible to start? 50ug? 100ug? Less? I'm thinking that not many things are harmful in that range short of powerful poisons (which I'd assume this product is not; well-known vendor, not a new batch). How low would an allergy test be?

100ug/ul = 100mg/ml = 100g/l

That is waaay out there. Since a ml weighs but 1 gram, they are proposing 5 and 10% weight per volume solutions which is unreasonable and likely not homogeneous, at least in water or even low-percentage ethanol.

And... There is absolutely no need for it.

I know, it seems far-fetched to me too. Just wanted to check up. ;)
 

MattPsy

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How did you smoke it?

and how does it compare in intensity to intranasal?

Also how long did you have residual effects?

Meth pipe. Weighed my dose out with a microgram scale. I don't recommend that you try this method if you don't have the ability to weigh this accurately. Unlike IV, you can't just make up a stock solution volumetrically with a larger amount, unless you then evaporate off the solvent whilst in the pipe (this is not actually a bad method).

Effects can be comparable in strength to intranasal, but at about 1/3 to 1/2 the dose. At equivalent amounts, smoked is far stronger.

Residual effects linger for around 3 hours after primary effects finished, much as with other ROAs.
 

Incunabula

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Meth pipe. Weighed my dose out with a microgram scale. I don't recommend that you try this method if you don't have the ability to weigh this accurately. Unlike IV, you can't just make up a stock solution volumetrically with a larger amount, unless you then evaporate off the solvent whilst in the pipe (this is not actually a bad method).

Effects can be comparable in strength to intranasal, but at about 1/3 to 1/2 the dose. At equivalent amounts, smoked is far stronger.

Residual effects linger for around 3 hours after primary effects finished, much as with other ROAs.
So your saying duration is around 6 hours smoked? like with other ROA.
 

uncomfortablepants

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Jan 25, 2006
Messages
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Meth pipe. Weighed my dose out with a microgram scale. I don't recommend that you try this method if you don't have the ability to weigh this accurately. Unlike IV, you can't just make up a stock solution volumetrically with a larger amount, unless you then evaporate off the solvent whilst in the pipe (this is not actually a bad method).

Effects can be comparable in strength to intranasal, but at about 1/3 to 1/2 the dose. At equivalent amounts, smoked is far stronger.

Residual effects linger for around 3 hours after primary effects finished, much as with other ROAs.

Is it the freebase?




I have a mixture of glycerol and water 50/50ish. Maybe I'll try adding some onto an herbal blend and smoke it once it evaporates.
 

MattPsy

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Yes, duration around 6 hours.

I smoked the HCl salt. Freebase decomposes a little when smoked. I gave all this information much earlier in the thread but it was seemingly ignored.

I wouldn't bother putting it on to plant material and smoking that, when I tried that seems most of it was lost to pyrolysis.
 

uncomfortablepants

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Jan 25, 2006
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Yes, duration around 6 hours.

I smoked the HCl salt. Freebase decomposes a little when smoked. I gave all this information much earlier in the thread but it was seemingly ignored.

I wouldn't bother putting it on to plant material and smoking that, when I tried that seems most of it was lost to pyrolysis.


Thanks for restating. The thread is getting long.

I think I'll just hold off on smoking it. Don't really feel the urge to go through the hassle to get it out of the solution I made right now.:\



:)
 

Cyanoide

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I got 5 550µg blotters today. Reading the thread many say the amount on blotters may be unreliable. Some of you probably know which vendor sells 550µg blotters so if you know they're reliable I'd be happy to know. I like to have my stuff in powder form so I can weight it myself, but in this case it's impossible. I don't really like having blotters. Maybe I should start with a half and then see how it works and take the other half it it feels right.
 

Survived Abortion

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I got 5 550µg blotters today. Reading the thread many say the amount on blotters may be unreliable. Some of you probably know which vendor sells 550µg blotters so if you know they're reliable I'd be happy to know. I like to have my stuff in powder form so I can weight it myself, but in this case it's impossible. I don't really like having blotters. Maybe I should start with a half and then see how it works and take the other half it it feels right.

Although I may in the future make up a few d.i.y. blotters to take out for sublingual dosing, I'm not sure about buying ready laid blotters of this material. I feel comfortable knowing the exact amount I am going to ingest, especially to get a feel of the level of effects from different dosages. I got some of the powder the other day, I've been meaning to make a liquid solution for storage and volumetric measurement. I need to set some time aside to venture into unknown lands with this one.
 

SpecialK_

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Alright, anyone able to give me a step by step guide with what to do with my freebase to get it dissolved in liquid form for insufflation.
 

skillet

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Read the last couple of pages, eg:

Whatever you do don't rail lines of it

the freebase won't dissolve in water.
This is what I found easy.

add distilled vinegar to 25C until it dissolves completely. I found 50mg to very easily dissolve in 3ml of distilled vinegar.

(Distilled water may be slightly basic too, so it may help to use more distilled vinegar than neccesary)

then dissolve that solution in distilled water.

making a final solution of 1mg/ml works well and can be dispensed with a 1ml oral syringe.






PS IMO it is not all that spectacular to risk using if anyone has any uncertainty about how to safely dose it.

Ask if there's anything specific you want to know.
 

Cambo

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Dec 16, 2010
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Anyone tried this while drinking? Doubt there would b much interaction but, cant be too cautious.
I'm planning to get some, but knowing drunk me, that's when I'd probably take it lol.
 
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