The Big and Dandy HBWR/MGS/LSA Thread (Archive start - 4-14-2008)

[cascadia]

It should work, though you will have to lower the dosage as the absorption rate is higher.

 

[Porkchop]

Bluelight..... the only place on the web where they discuss putting morningglory juice up your ass to get high.
love it.

 

[kaptain]

so do you always get sick when you just eat the seeds? if i smoke some pot will that make me not get sick? what do you think is the best way to do it to the the best effects?

 

[Morninggloryseed]

The best way to do it in my opinion is to just grind them up into a powder and eat them in gelatin capsules. I already said that. Nausea isn't too bad of a problem if you fast completly for a good 8 hours and smoke plenty of marijuana. Vomiting will pretty much cure it. Do you always get sick? Yeah pretty much. Sometimes worse than others. Reread my prior post.

 

[Morninggloryseed]

I should add that many people find ginger root helps curb nausea. I have never tried it. Also, a few hours into the trip I usually would eat a small snack such as an apple or banana (I like to call them naners).

 

[nick44]

BAH! Extractions don't help with the nausea - they only seem to. If you convince yourself that there will be less nausea then most likely there will be. I've had the best experiences with the grind 'em up gelcap method the MGS endorses. While my stomach was upset - I didn't let that take away from the trip. You just deal with it. I've always found that the best way to get sick is to think that you are going to get sick.

 

[LOVING IT!]

Me, my brother and a friend of mine tried Hawaiian Baby Woodrose seeds for the first time two nights ago. We soaked untreated seeds in water for about half an hour, scraped off the furry coating and ate the seeds. It was an amazing experience - massive body buzz, loads of trippy effects (I got lost in the toilet, with the lights off for 30 minutes!), euphoria and other wonderful feelings! We mixed them with pills, but my brother took the seeds well before the pills and got the same feelings then. We experienced absolutely no nausea at all, all night. I think the amount of experience depends on where you buy the seeds. Online headshops in Amsterdam seem to sell untreated seeds, as these were the ones we had.
I would strongly recommend these seeds to anyone - I had one of the best drug nights I've ever had. I've never tried trips though...

 

[sparkle_jez]

Rivea Corymbosa Seeds (LSA altenative to MG/HBWR seeds???)

"If you wish to trip on LSA, then a nicer alternative to Morning Glory seeds are Rivea Corymbosa seeds. These have a genuine history of shamanic usage among native tribes in Mexico and they don't make you sick.

Here is how to prepare them. Take about 15 Rivea Corymbosa seeds and grind them up into a very fine powder and leave them to soak in water over night. Filter the water and then drink it for a magical trip."

I found this on a website....... I really do want to have another LSA trip, but I just can't stomach morning glory seeds anymore!

So is the above information correct??
Do Rivea Corymbosa seeds contain LSA??
What potency do they have compared to morning glory seeds (heavenly blues)???
Are they available in garden stores???
Has anyone ever tried this?? Is it really better than Morning glory seeds/HBWR seeds???
And is the above preparation accurate??? will it work???

Thanks.

 

[gloggawogga]

These are in the morning glory family (Convolvulaceae) and where actually the the first ones discovered to be psychoactive. You can read about them, and their relation to the more traditional morning glories (Ipomoea) here:

http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/lsd_my_problem_child/chapter6.shtml

As far as actual dosage and side effects for this particulare species, I can't find any reliable information.

 

[Morninggloryseed]

Re: Rivea Corymbosa Seeds (LSA altenative to MG/HBWR seeds???)

"If you wish to trip on LSA, then a nicer alternative to Morning Glory seeds are Rivea Corymbosa seeds. These have a genuine history of shamanic usage among native tribes in Mexico and they don't make you sick.

What potency do they have compared to morning glory seeds (heavenly blues)???
Are they available in garden stores???

These seeds are morning glory seeds also. They are not available in stores, the must be ordered from a speciality vendor. The morning glory seeds in stores (Ipomoea violacea) also have a genuine history of shamanic usage. They were known as "Tlilitzin", or little black ones.

I am not sure about potency. I have a feeling the ones you can buy in garden stores are much weaker than what the Mexican Natives used. They were known to use much less than most people use to trip off these seeds. Remember...the ones in garden stores are breed for their flowers, not their seed potency.

 

[anjatalker]

HBWR (Hawaiian Baby Woodrose) Sublingual Technique

I tried the sublingual method about a week ago, crushing about 7 seeds (ones which make me trip w/ 4 or 5), mixing them with a bit of water and orange juice, and keeping them under my tongue while swishing them around every once in a while.

After 30 minutes, I spit out the mixture and waited for the effects. Unfortunately, nothing happened for the rest of the night (no dilated pupils, etc.).

I'd read about this supposed "sublingual absorption" method and pretty much followed it exactly, but got no results.

Has anyone else tried it? Could I have done something wrong?

 

[pete_johns]

Sublingual Absorption - does it work?

Anjatalker: In my experience, using the buccal/sublingual technique properly does not require much higher doses than when eating the seeds. However, as there are many factors to consider, and given the fact that you do not describe your case in closer detail it is impossible for me (or anyone else for that matter) to say exactly what contributed to the apparent lack of success. I reckon, as you apparently took a fairly strong dose of potent seeds (I assume you have previously had good effects with seeds from the same batch), that the problem originates in your technique of administration.

Firstly, it is essential that the seeds are pulverised completely, the finer the better. If you have the means to turn the seeds into fine dust - then do it!

Secondly, - and this may sound strange - but the buccal/sublingual administration is most effective on an empty stomach. The cleaner your body is at the time of administration, the faster it seems it can absorb the alkaloids! If you are hungry, eating will not detract from the trip once you have begun the journey. Actually, in some cases I have found eating at about 2-3 hours into the trip to contribute positively to the effects!

Thirdly, it is equally important to prepare the oral cavity before a buccal/sublingual administration. I do not know what procedure you use, but I do this by:

1) Cleansing the mouth and increasing the blood circulation locally:

Brush your teeth, tongue and gums and the inside of your cheeks hard and thoroughly with a toothbrush and toothpaste to increase blood circulation and to remove dead cells and mucous layers.

2) Damaging gums to facilitate uptake:

Rinse mouth with a mouthwash tonic consisting for example of 6 centilitres of chemically pure 96% ethanol alcohol and 2 centilitres of undiluted mouthwash containing menthol. The mouthwash should be swirled around all areas of your mouth for approximately one minute or more. Note that this procedure is excruciatingly painful and a somewhat milder alcohol, eg. 40% vodka can also be used. Another mild but equally effective method of damaging the superficial layers of the gums and mouth is to chew into a big piece of fresh pineapple and then let it sit, wedged between the gums and cheeks for approximately 10 minutes or so. An enzyme in the pineapple will break down the superficial cellular layers inside the mouth. When a painful throbbing heat can be felt it is time to spit the pineapple out and thoroughly rinse the mouth. I have heard of people using diluted lye for this purpose. It works, but I would strongly recommend against it!

A short comment on orange juice and acidifying: Over the years I have come across all kinds of ideas of “drawing out” LSA and the other ergot alkaloids with orange juice and the like. Personally I have never used acidifying liquids (eg. orange juice, citric acid or ascorbic acid solutions) to lower pH values, nor have I soaked the HBWR seed dust. Frankly, I have never understood what that talk is all about! I just dampen the dust with a drop or two of regular warm water and then take it, and it works for me.

Spread little more than half of the moistened seed dust evenly across the gums of both upper and lower jaws, and place the remains under the tongue. Keep your tongue slightly pulled back to decrease salivation as excess salivation will only dilute the alkaloids and detract from the uptake. Keep it in for 20 minutes or so. Spit out. Within an hour you should be able to detect mydriasis developing.

If you use good A. nervosa seeds, have taken a large enough dose, and have followed the above instructions but still do not experience any effects, then something is very wrong as the above method works well for me and my mates.

If you decide to give my method a try, do write back and let me know how it worked out. Some people seem to require larger doses when taking A. nervosa seeds sublingually. Given that this has never been the case for me I have always written such problems off as either bad seeds or bad technique, however, I am curious, could this case prove otherwise?

Pleasant journey,

//pete_johns

 

[bluedolphin]

anjatalker... what you did is *one* sublingual technique, and I too have tried it with just about no success.

The sublingual technique I suggest is to start with 50% more seeds than you would chew and swallow, and chew these seeds to a pulp in your mouth. Hold the pulp (mixed with nothing but your own saliva) behind your lower lip for about 25 minutes. By this point your mouth will probably be filled with so much saliva that you can't open your mouth to speak.

But it works

I don't know where the idea of mixing it with lime/lemon juice came about, but the one time I tried that all I got were very sore and sensitive teeth and not much of a trip.

 

[anjatalker]

Sorry about the source, I've taken it out.

About the sublingual technique: I used a coffee grinder, so the seeds were down to a very fine dust. I did mix them with water and orange juice, so my theory is that it might have been too diluted to begin with and the subsequent salivation only made this worse.

Is there any way to prevent excess salivation? After a while it was almost impossible to keep my mouth shut, it was almost overflowing with saliva.

And from what I understood in your posts: the seed mush is not supposed to be swished around the mouth with one's tongue? I had read about this method somewhere else, but apparently you guys do not do it. I guess maybe this would cause excess salivation?

If all the procedures are well done and one uses 50% more seeds than usual, is the final effect of sublingual absorption equivalent to swallowing the seeds? (can you trip hard with this method? )

 

[bluedolphin]

Yes you can trip hard with this method... although you might need up to twice as much seeds. I get fine results on 50% more but some people dispute this.

One possibility is that your seeds are fake.

Make sure your seeds look like THIS

Not these FAKE ones

 

[Blowmonkey]

Eeuh, they are both hbwr and I've tripped intensely hard on these seeds that are supposed to be fake.. So have my friends..

Experiences and substances vary, however..

 

[sinistrus]

Please s.o. fix this !

Eeuh, they are both hbwr

Why then do they look like cats and dogs?

I too have twice got the supposedly fake ones from two different suppliers and got little to no effect, albeit the whole nausea and heavy constipation.

Should the "easy coating peeling" thing be considered as a way to select between fake's & true's ?

 

[bluedolphin]

Blowmonkey I'm surprised you've tripped off the fake ones. I don't know much about botany so I can't confirm of deny that the seeds in the second picture are or aren't HBWR, but I do know these are commonly sold by online vendors (usually at cheaper prices and alongside the real ones which they claim to be super-potent varieties) and commonly people complain about not tripping off them.

I got a batch of those "fake" seeds and ate over 20 of them and experienced barely any effects. If those seeds are HBWR, they are most certainly a variety that is barely more potent than a single morning glory seed.

Fortunately that particular vendor must have felt bad about ripping me off with all those fake seeds, and sent me a free sample of the real ones (as shown above) which were larger, darker in color, and had a husk. 8 of the real ones had me tripping quite hard!

Speaking of morning glory seeds... I'm surprised someone hasn't yet weighed in on this discussion

 

[Blowmonkey]

Why then do they look like cats and dogs?

Have no idea why they look like cats and dogs to you. But a question.. Why in God's name would Erowid list those seeds as Hawaiian Baby Woodrose seeds if they weren't, seems a little strange to me.

Bluedolphin, I was surprised too, at first I also thought I got ripped off (as you may have read in my TR ). I think the difference lies in the fact that they're grown differently, under different circumstances, adjusting themselves to the enviroment (or something). I know the seeds are mostly regarded as "bunk" or not very potent, but I have definitely gotten effects of off these seeds. Come to think of it, I particularly sought out the darker seeds, I thought the seeds contained higher alkaloid contents because they had more colorations. This may have played a part in it, but I can't back that up..

Btw, good going with the vendor sending you a free sample, haha, not all of them are asses..

 

[Real_Illusion]

Plugging LSA

How much more effective is plugging HBWR's than oral administration? Anybody know?