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The Anthropogenic Climate Change Debate Thread

JessFR

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I do find it amusing that this is basically answering one argument of using a fallacy that doesn't actually effect the underlying position, with yet another fallacy that doesn't effect the underlying position.
 

Derschieber

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It argues that because one person makes a bad argument for a position, then the position itself is discredited.
One person lol lol
Try 1000s of rabidly obsessed leftist loonies, bought-and-paid-for charlatan scientists, fat-cat parasite politicians, the vile fake news media, year in, year out...one lie after another, countless hours of prime-time TV, front page news articles, each one tailor made to satisfy your increasingly compulsive appetite.

And it was all an obvious hoax.
At your expense.
 
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JessFR

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Yeah, I'm sure we are being played by evil scientists out to make.. i dunno, grant money I guess?

Thats far more plausible than the nice, good, honest oil companies who I am certain would gladly give up their entire industry if it really were for the greater good.

But it's not, it's just evil scientists who hate America am I right? :)
 

Xorkoth

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Personally, I feel sorry for all those poor, kind oil executives, lobbyists and shills who are altruistically fighting for their right to keep making record profits, for the greater good of all. Shame on those evil scientists who are obviously behind the scenes laughing at us and plotting. I'm sure the grant money they receive for studies makes the profits from the oil companies look like chump change. Besides, if the evidence pointed to a lack of climate change, surely no one would give them billions in grant money dollars to investigate that side of it. Damn you Dr. Evil!! 🤬

But for real, aside from releasing a known greenhouse gas into the atmosphere in large amounts (it is easy to prove it is a greenhouse gas, ie, it traps heat), we should be aggressively seeking to phase out fossil fuels, for the following reasons:
  • Burning them produces pollution (soot, carcinogens, etc) and before environmental protections created in the 80s (which Trump is dismantling), smog in big cities was a huge problem. In China/India, it kills millions of people a year. The health impact from smog is hugely negative, even today in the US, where our air is cleaned than it has been in decades.
  • Acquiring them is dangerous and it causes oil spills, while fracking poisons water supplies and causes localized earthquakes, and the waste fluid eventually makes it to the oceans
  • They are finite and will continue to get more and more expensive until they run out. We need to be prepared for that and transition away from them BEFORE it becomes an epic clusterfuck of a disaster when it runs out
Instead, the current administration wants to phase out renewable energy sources. What we need is nuclear, supplemented by renewable energy where appropriate/efficient. And focus on electric cars, surely with innovation and focus they can be made to be more practical.
 
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JessFR

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Funfact. A disproportionately high number of the few scientists who don't accept human made climate change are geologists.

Funfact, one of the largest employers of geologists is the fossil fuel industry, where their abilities are put to use locating and extracting oil deposits.

I think it's pretty obvious what's happening.

Those brave geologists are speaking out against their fellow corrupt scientists who are only in it for the money. And the heroic fossil fuel industry uses its power to ensure the truth gets out in the face of greedy grant money barons.


That their tireless work to safeguard the American economy and uphold our ideals of truth and justice goes so unrecognized is a travesty.
 

Derschieber

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, it's just evil scientists who hate America am I right?
It doesn't matter who is behind it. Read their false claims again. Know here and now, they (whoever they are) lied to you. And they are lying today.
Unrepentant liars are not deserving of your trust or loyalty.
 

Xorkoth

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Funfact
All their lies turned out to be lies. When you find yourself clinging to & defending predictions that did not come to pass, it is an opportunity to grow.
Don't waste it.
Well that's it, you've convinced me with your evidence and sound arguments.

Look at your weather app, 10 days out. How often does the prediction turn out accurate? Does it make you feel like the whole thing was a giant conspiracy when they change the prediction as they get more information? Are they corrupted liars? Or did they just realize they didn't have all the information and are revising their information to be more accurate?
 

Derschieber

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Who are the people driving the Climate Scam? Go to the next People's Climate Rally and see for yourself. These are the people you will meet:

#Socialist Action - a Trotskyist/Marxist group (socialistaction.org)
#The Communist Party USA - a Marxist-Leninist political party
#The Revolutionary Communist Party USA - a Maoist political cult devoted to overthrowing the United States in a total revolution. (https://revcom.us/rcp/index.html)
#International Socialist Organisation (socialistworker.org)
#The Socialist Alternative (www.socialistalternative.org/about)
#Democratic Socialists of America (dsa east bay.org)
#Freedom Socialist (www.socialism.com)
#The Worker's World Party - revolutionary Marxist-Lennon party (workersworld-party.org)
#Eco Socialist Coalition
#The Socialist Worker's Party - a pro-Castro organisation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Workers_Party_(United_States)
#Solidarity - a Socialist, Feminist Anti-Racist Organization
#World Can't Wait - WCW has been described as a Revolutionary Communist Party (RCP) "affiliate" (Wiki)
#Speak Out Now - calling for a violent communist revolution based on "the ideas and actions of Marx, Engels, Lenin and Trotsky (revolutionaryworkers.org)

The Climate change scam is proudly funded by Communists.
Are you really surprised? Time for wakeup kiddies.
 

Xorkoth

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It's posts like this that make me not really feel like engaging with you. Why bother?

(The one right above this for the record)
 

Derschieber

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It's posts like this that make me not really feel like engaging with you. Why bother?
What happened ? I do not understand your reaction.

Holy shit ?!! I just read your comment over at Trumpie's thread. Now I understand.
Look at the my posty above the one you find offensive. Communist parties.
What I said here was not in response to your comment in the Trump thread.
lol...does any of that even make sense? Good night
 
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Pete556

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What happened ? I do not understand your reaction.

Holy shit ?!! I just read your comment over at Trumpie's thread. Now I understand.
Look at the my posty above the one you find offensive. Communist parties.
What I said here was not in response to your comment in the Trump thread.
lol...does any of that even make sense? Good night
I noticed derschiber is banned again what did she do this time :LOL:
 

JGrimez

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China scientists warn of global cooling trick up nature’s sleeve

  • Research sheds light on 500-year Chinese weather cycle and suggests a cool change could be on the way
  • Findings leave no room for complacency or inaction
A new study has found winters in northern China have been warming since 4,000BC – regardless of human activity – but the mainland scientists behind the research warn there is no room for complacency or inaction on climate change, with the prospect of a sudden global cooling also posing a danger.

The study found that winds from Arctic Siberia have been growing weaker, the conifer tree line has been retreating north, and there has been a steady rise in biodiversity in a general warming trend that continues today. It appears to have little to do with the increase in greenhouse gases which began with the industrial revolution, according to the researchers.

Lead scientist Dr Wu Jing, from the Key Laboratory of Cenozoic Geology and Environment at the Institute of Geology and Geophysics, part of the Chinese Academy of Sciences, said the study had found no evidence of human influence on northern China’s warming winters.

Driving forces include the sun, the atmosphere, and its interaction with the ocean,” Wu said. “We have detected no evidence of human influence. But that doesn't mean we can just relax and do nothing.”

Wu and her colleagues are concerned that, as societies grow more used to the concept of global warming, people will develop a misplaced confidence in our ability to control climate change. Nature, they warned, may trick us and might catch us totally unprepared – causing chaos, panic, famine and even wars as the global climate system is disrupted.

There are already alarming signs, according to their paper, which has been accepted for publication by the online Journal of Geophysical Research: Atmospheres.

Wu and her colleagues spent more than a dozen years studying sediments under Moon Lake, a small volcanic lake hidden in the deep forests of the Greater Khingan Mountain Range in China’s Inner Mongolia autonomous region. They found that winter warming over the past 6,000 years had not been a smooth ride, with ups and downs occurring about every 500 years.

Their findings confirmed an earlier study by a separate team of Chinese scientists, published by online journal Scientific Reports in 2014, which first detected the 500-year cyclical pattern of China’s summer monsoons and linked it to solar activity.

The 2014 research, which drew on 5,000 years’ worth of data, suggested the current warm phase of the cycle could terminate over the next several decades, ushering in a 250-year cool phase, potentially leading to a partial slowdown in man-made global warming.

Wu said the latest study, with 10,000 years’ worth of new data, not only helped to draw a more complete picture of the 500-year cycle, but also revealed a previously unknown mechanism behind the phenomenon, which suggested the impact of the sun on the Earth’s climate may be greater than previously thought.

According to Wu, the variation in solar activity alone was usually not strong enough to induce the rapid changes in vegetation the research team recorded in the sediment cores of Moon Lake.

Instead, the scientists found the warming impact was amplified by a massive, random interaction between surface seawater and the atmosphere in the Pacific Ocean known as the El Nino-Southern Oscillation.

As a result of the research findings, Wu said she was now more worried about cooling than warming.

“A sharp drop of temperature will benefit nobody. The biggest problem is, we know it will come, but we don’t know exactly when.”
 

JGrimez

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Global cooling has already begun.

They're hiding it but crop yields have been disastrous (and could get worse)

 

JGrimez

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Global Warming? An Israeli Astrophysicist Provides Alternative View That Is Not Easy To Reject

The U.S. auto industry and regulators in California and Washington appear deadlocked over stiff Obama-era fuel-efficiency standards that automakers oppose and the Trump administration have vowed to roll back – an initiative that has environmental activists up in arms.

California and four automakers favor compromise, while the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) supports the president’s position that the federal standards are too strict. The EPA argues that forcing automakers to build more fuel efficient cars will make them less affordable, causing consumers to delay trading older, less efficient vehicles. Complicating matters is California’s authority to create its own air quality standards, which the White House vows to end.

However the impasse is resolved, the moment looks ripe to revisit the root of this multifactorial dustup: namely, the scientific “consensus” that CO2 emissions from vehicles and other sources are pushing the earth to the brink of climate catastrophe.

In a modest office on the campus of Jerusalem’s Hebrew University, an Israeli astrophysicist patiently explains why he is convinced that the near-unanimous judgments of climatologists are misguided. Nir Shaviv, chairman of the university’s physics department, says that his research and that of colleagues, suggests that rising CO2 levels, while hardly insignificant, play only a minor role compared to the influence of the sun and cosmic radiation on the earth’s climate.

“Global warming clearly is a problem, though not in the catastrophic terms of Al Gore’s movies or environmental alarmists,” said Shaviv. “Climate change has existed forever and is unlikely to go away. But CO2 emissions don’t play the major role. Periodic solar activity does.”

Shaviv, 47, fully comprehends that his scientific conclusions constitute a glaring rebuttal to the widely-quoted surveys showing that 97% of climate scientists agree that human activity – the combustion of fossil fuels – constitutes the principle reason for climate change.

“Only people who don’t understand science take the 97% statistic seriously,” he said. “Survey results depend on who you ask, who answers and how the questions are worded. In any case, science is not a democracy. Even if 100% of scientists believe something, one person with good evidence can still be right.”

History is replete with lone voices toppling scientific orthodoxies. Astronomers deemed Pluto the ninth planet – until they changed their minds. Geologists once regarded tectonic plate theory, the movement of continents, as nonsense. Medicine were 100% certain that stomach resulted from stress and spicy food, until an Australian researcher proved bacteria the culprit and won a Nobel Prize for his efforts.

Lest anyone dismiss Shaviv on the basis of his scientific credentials or supposed political agenda, consider the following: He enrolled at Israel’s Technion University – the country’s equivalent of MIT – at the age of 13 and earned an MA while serving in the Israel Defense Force’s celebrated 8200 Intelligence unit. He returned to Technion, where he earned his doctorate, afterward completing post-doctoral work at California Institute of Technology and the Canadian Institute for Theoretical Astrophysics. He also has been an Einstein Fellow at The Institute for Advanced Study in Princeton.

In other words, he knows tons more about science than Donald Trump or Al Gore.

Global warming and post apocalyptic future. Climate change and melting of glaciers. Statue of Liberty collapses under water and new New York city skyline on an artificial island. Perhaps the catastrophic predictions are overblown. Getty

The U.S. auto industry and regulators in California and Washington appear deadlocked over stiff Obama-era fuel-efficiency standards that automakers oppose and the Trump administration have vowed to roll back – an initiative that has environmental activists up in arms.


California and four automakers favor compromise, while the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) supports the president’s position that the federal standards are too strict. The EPA argues that forcing automakers to build more fuel efficient cars will make them less affordable, causing consumers to delay trading older, less efficient vehicles. Complicating matters is California’s authority to create its own air quality standards, which the White House vows to end.https://www.forbes.com/sites/doronlevin/2019/08/09/global-warming-an-israeli-astrophysicist-provides-alternative-view-that-is-not-easy-to-reject/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/doronlevin/2019/08/09/global-warming-an-israeli-astrophysicist-provides-alternative-view-that-is-not-easy-to-reject/
 

swilow

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Global cooling has already begun.

They're hiding it but crop yields have been disastrous (and could get worse)


Crop yields were disastrous.... and it snowed at the footy. Science must be wrong. 🤓

It's not uncommon for it to snow in Canberra. Not even that rare for it to snow on a sporting match though rugby hardly counts.
 
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