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The ALD-52 Thread

frizzantik

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It seems the general consensus at Bluelight is that one will not find ALD-52..
I've often wondered about this chemical as I've experienced two distinct types of trips.
...
from http://www.cures-not-wars.org/ibogaine/chap04.html
" Nonetheless ALD-52 turned out to be ten or twenty times more psychedelic than LSD. That is, its effects lay far more in the direction of Ibogaine than a mere "fishbowl effect," the "apprehension of the oneness of experience" often referred to as "seeing God."
Philip K. Dick, writing about his own celebrated religious or Near-Death Experience (NDE) in early 1974, described the phenomena of "laminate personality," of being several personalities millennia apart at the same time. Aron Kay, who took the ALD also, confirms that he had flashes of the same thing, the definite sensation of co-existing at several points of time simultaneously: 2,000 years ago, in the present, and some time up ahead in the future. It was Beal's second vision:
"As we came down to the river," says Dana, "it was like this other personality was in my mind with me, a dominant personality, who looked at the water, saw the twentieth-century pollution, and thought: `The water in this river is totally unacceptable f or performing Baptisms.' And this other person was kind of daydreaming, not even conscious of the me there, until I looked at the litter along the streambank and thought--`But of course, they didn't have non-biodegradable plastics back then.'--and the other personality kind of noticed I was there, and who I was, and thought: `Oh, a Baptist (I had attended Baptist Sunday School)...well, just make sure you don't get your head cut off this time!'"
...
With a certain source of 'acid', all from the same vial, which was kept in a freezer at all times except when dispensing, i often experienced a personality laminate, or time laminate... I felt i was a Roman as well as a futuristic space man on a mission, as well as myself. I read this article years after i experienced the ALD like trips and never really thought about it much until then, although I often missed the the feelings of the personality changes on other trips.
the way the vial was kept makes me think the owners knew it was not just LSD, which is not sensitive to temperature nearly as much as ALD, which will turn into LSD at room temperature.
Why would one bother to synthesize ALD from LSD? Supposedly ALD doesnt cause nearly as much anxiety as LSD, making for 'cleaner trip', or at least a trip that seems smoother.
The experiences on the acid i associate with ALD were much more fun than those on those i think were LSD. The trips i associate with LSD seems 'dirty' while ALD seems pure and clean. These people had two different vials and they did produce significantly different experiences... with one more like a combination of ALD + LSD and one more like just ALD. Perhaps clandestine chemists often synthesize ALD-52, but by the time it gets to many street users it has totally become LSD.
But it could all be set and setting.
Comments? Am I talking out of my ass? I am still a green lighter :D
[ 20 September 2002: Message edited by: frizzantik ]
 

Pander Bear

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quite a post, green one. It's got me thinking, and at 8:00 AM, no less.
I had no idea what you were saying until I consulted TiHKAL, so I'm going to link to it and cite the blurb on ALD-52
TiHKAL - LSD
ALD-52. 1-Acetyl-N,N-diethyllysergamide. This material has been explored in the 50-175 microgram range and there are a number of human trials reported, with varying conclusions. One found that there was less visual distortion than with LSD and it seems to produce less anxiety and was somewhat less potent than LSD. Another report claimed it was more effective in increasing blood pressure. Yet another could not tell them apart. ALD-52 just may have been the drug that was sold as "Orange Sunshine" during the "Summer of Love" in the late '60's. Or "Orange Sunshine" may have been, really, LSD. This was the focus of a fascinating trial where two defendants were accused of distributing LSD, whereas they claimed that it was ALD-52 which was not an illegal drug. The prosecution claimed that as it hydrolyses readily to LSD, for all intents and purposes it was LSD, and anyway, you had to go through the illegal LSD to get to ALD-52 by any of the known chemical syntheses. The defendants were found guilty. And yet, I do not know who has actually measured the speed or ease of that reaction. If ALD-52 hydrolyses so easily to LSD, and the body is indeed a hydrolytic instrument, then these two drugs should be absolutely equivalent in every particular, This is the ergot equivalent of the psilocybin to psilocin argument, except this is an acetamide rather than a phosphate ester.
If thre body is indeed a "hydrolytic instrument", then any differences you felt ought to be nothing more than wishfull hindsight. I myslef have felt a "laminate personality" on a wide variety of drugs; For me, like you, it generally includes a character from the future, and someone from the past. I'd just chalk the phenomenom up to your ego's insuffcent vocabulary for what it is being forced to recieve, reconcile, and integrate.
[ 20 September 2002: Message edited by: atlas ]
 

Curious_George

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I've never had AL-LAD before, but what the world needs now is much, much more ETH-LAD (_Tihkal_, entry #12) plus some #17 for good measure in my opionion.
Also, why isn't 5-MeO-AET in Tihkal or did I just somehow miss it?
 

Meilikhios

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Originally posted by Curious_George:
I've never had AL-LAD before, but what the world needs now is much, much more ETH-LAD (_Tihkal_, entry #12) plus some #17 for good measure in my opionion.
Also, why isn't 5-MeO-AET in Tihkal or did I just somehow miss it?

Well Mister George, i agree too that ETH-LAD sounds like a super winner to me - would love to nibble that one.
#17 (as the acetate ester in fact) is my absolute all time favourite psychedelic.
5-MeO-AET is mentionned in TiHKAL in the entry for AET. I'd like to taste this one too.
 

Crazy Cloud

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I'm really curious about this laminate personality business. Has anyone got any laminate personality experiences / trip reports they could share with us?
For instance, what you took, what you experienced, things like dose, mood, setting... etc...
Thanks. :)
 

loki4x

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This is my take on this:
In my research I believe I have read that ALD-52 is made by first making lsd. Which is why a person can not legally make ALD-52 because you have to synthisize lsd first, thus being in possesion of this chemical. Please correct me if I am wrong.
As far as the different experences you had with one being "cleaner" and "smoother" feeling trip, this could have alot to do with how the two different vials of acid were handled. When lsd is not handled correctly, it starts to break down and this will produce a "dirtier" and "less smooth" trip. The cleaner trip was probably produced by acid that was handled correctly.
But who really cares which one you got, you found acid. :)
 

Curious_George

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If I could have traded some of my T12 for some of your T17 at those times/places/spaces, then I'm positively certain we would have both been EUPHORIOUS to say the least.
I once ate a half sheet of ETH-LAD blotter once and had a vision by GOD approximately 48 hours later. Simply incredible material; none of the infinite kaos associated with T26 (aka LSD 025).
(HNT: Rotate the number 8 by 90 degrees to get the infinity symbol if you so desire.)
Adam enjoyed the ETH-LAD as well; however, he did not eat nearly that much.
THE VISION WAS AMAZING!!!!!!!
I'm sure Mike W. remembers the story of my little trip that time.
Post Script
Would anyone care to see the internet fotos of me on the internet at the Pharm party this past summer? Reply in kind.
Yours Truly,
Andrew P.
***
But, back to the original topic of this thread, ALD-52 looks like crap to me. T1, T12, T26 and T51 hold much more promise, and has the N,N-diethylamido group been cyclized to a pyrolidino amido group and tasted yet or not?
Just Curious...
(and curiousity has yet to kill this kat!)
[ 21 September 2002: Message edited by: Curious_George ]
 

frizzantik

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Originally posted by loki4x:
This is my take on this:
In my research I believe I have read that ALD-52 is made by first making lsd. Which is why a person can not legally make ALD-52 because you have to synthisize lsd first, thus being in possesion of this chemical. Please correct me if I am wrong.
As far as the different experences you had with one being "cleaner" and "smoother" feeling trip, this could have alot to do with how the two different vials of acid were handled. When lsd is not handled correctly, it starts to break down and this will produce a "dirtier" and "less smooth" trip. The cleaner trip was probably produced by acid that was handled correctly.

ALD-52 can only be made from LSD and breaks down into LSD. So yeah the legality is the same as LSD. Making ALD has nothing to do with legality though.. like i said it is because ALD is supposed to give a more enjoyable trip.
...
from http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_ald52.shtml
"
'Windsor [US lab] was not producing lSD but ALD-52, similar but
not illegal, or so [Tim] Scully believed. Scully found the ALD
formula among scientific papers and books in the specialist
library at Berkeley. It was a compound [Albert] Hofmann had tested
years before. At the University of California Medical Center(sic),
Scully uncovered the scientific paper Hofmann and a colleague had
published on the drug. From the US Patent Office he drew patent
number 2,810,723, lodged by Sandoz with production details. In The
Hallucinogens co-authored by Osmond and Hofmann, Scully discovered
a table comparing the effects of ALD and other drugs in the same
family.
The table suggested that ALD might actually have advantages over
LSD, reducing any side effects but achieving a stronger trip.
Measurements of brain waves while people were taking the two drugs
showed that while LSD produced brain waves associated with intense
concentration and anxiety, ALD produced brain waves showing a more
relaxed mental state.
There was one snag. Hofmann's formula meant making LSD first, then
converting it into ALD. "
...
On trips with what i think may have been ALD, i rarely felt anxious.. it was very easy to relax and hang out in the same situation for long periods of time with getting 'stuck' and if anxiety did hit, it was usually a brief flash. Additionally my visual field seemed like it had patterns and whatnot overlayed on top of it, with out much shape distortion, as opposed to seeing things in my minds eye very distorted which is how the more LSD like trips have been.
ALD easiliy breaks down into another psychoactive substance: LSD. However, LSD doesnt break down into any other active substances. Most people agree the quality of the acid experience does depend on how well the container was stored.
Since LSD doesnt break down into anything that should affect your brain, I think it is possible that some acid starts out as ALD-52 and slowly decays into LSD. The better kept the vial, the more ALD is preserved and the 'cleaner' feeling the trip.
Anybody else think this is a possibility?
[ 21 September 2002: Message edited by: frizzantik ]
 

frizzantik

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Originally posted by Curious_George:
But, back to the original topic of this thread, ALD-52 looks like crap to me. T1, T12, T26 and T51 hold much more promise, and has the N,N-diethylamido group been cyclized to a pyrolidino amido group and tasted yet or not?

Its unfortunate Shulgin didn't give ALD it's own TiHKAL entry..
 

Curious_George

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frizzantik,
I beg to differ with you on this point. ALD-52 just isn't that special.
However, has anyone ever tasted BOB-5-MeO-DMT (which is simply 5-MeO-DMT [T38] with a methoxy group instead of a hydrogen attached to the aliphatic ethyl hydrocarbon chain beta to the nitrogen)?
Also, and this question is more of an ethnobotanical inquiry, but how does normacromerine (N-methyl-3,4-dimethoxy-beta-hydroxy-PEA) taste, smell and feel?
According to Tihkal, this compound can be found in _D. longimamma_ as well as other plants.
Sweet?
Live Free or Die--Vermont's state motto
Ok, the other sources for that stuff are supposed to be the following materials:
(taken from page 676, _Tihkal_)
_Coryphantha calipensis_
_Coryphantha greenwoodi_
_Coryphantha runyonii_
_Dolichothele longimamma_
_Dolichothele uberformis_
Normacromerine is somewhat related to synephrine.
Perhaps it would make a good ingredient in a Vick's brand inhaler?
[ 21 September 2002: Message edited by: Curious_George ]
 

PuristLove

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Most of the people who make claims about how much better LSD used to be, also claim to have gotten their acid from Sandoz. Sandoz certainly wouldn't have been marketing ALD-52 as LSD-25.
 

Love In Vein

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I have a friend who's mom told me once about how insane the late 60's acid was and the reason she stopped tripping is because she had a 72 hour trip that completely surpassed any LSD trip I've ever heard of. She also mentioned that what she took looked like pellets of gerbil food.
It was actually DOM. I had her read about it and she said that her experience matched it perfectly, and DOM was known to go around in the form of little organic looking pellets at that time as well.
So there could be another reason people claim the LSD was so much better.
Not to also mention that the average blotter tab was significantly larger than what goes around today.
And I can't remember where I read it, but suppossedly ALD-52 decomposes and reverts back to LSD-25 within hours after it's been made.
 

JerryBlunted

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Originally posted by Crazy Cloud:
I'm really curious about this laminate personality business. Has anyone got any laminate personality experiences / trip reports they could share with us?
For instance, what you took, what you experienced, things like dose, mood, setting... etc...
Thanks. :)

Well, not to get into a full blown trip report, but earlier this weekend I had an experience that you could describe as "laminate personality" or else activation of an archetypal pattern of consciousness. I ingested 4 grams of some psilocybes from Oregon, interesting story behind that but I digress... I came up quite strongly while walking in the woods on the campus where I go to school. Crazy visuals of leaves swirling around me in all directions, trees bending and twisting, pretty intense...
So, me and my girlfriend decide we want to walk down to my apartment (about 3 or 4 miles from campus straight down a STEEP hill) so we start walking. On the way I stepped in a sinkhole (hidden hole filled with mud) and it splashed all over me so I felt like an asshole as I was walking down the hill.
On the way down at one point I began to have visions of a caveman with grey skin and long scraggly hair walking with a big limp, I had the sense he was being kicked out of his cave by the other cavemen, who were throwing rocks at him. He continued to walk without response to the rocks. In my mind I asked why this had to be, and the response I got was "Somebody has to do it. May as well be me." Also, about this time (still walking down the hill) I began to have visions of Christ on the cross, but the cross was set on fire and Christ's skin was glowing, this image became juxtaposed with skulls and human remains being pulled from an oven, I got the sense of a Holocaust era concentration camp and the palpable feeling of evil hanging in the air, further layered on top was an experience of being a Palestinian man in a crowd burning the American flag, feeling the hunger in my stomach and the rage clenching my body... Altogether this experience took maybe 1/2 an hour and this was as I was walking down the hill. It was pretty intense. When I got back to my apartment I looked in the mirror and saw tears streaming down from my eyes, my skin was completely flushed red and I was sweating like crazy. It definitely took me an hour or two to recover from this experience, and the feeling of overwhelming importance this experience aroused in me is tough to shake, I feel like there is something really important to learn from this lesson I gleaned from the collective unconscious.
My theory is I was experiencing personal identification with the archetype of universal suffering and sacrifice. Lately I have been reading a lot about the plight of Native Americans and their poverty and depression due to an inability to fit in the mechanistic Western society. I think the empathy I felt for them was what led me to this particular expression of my mind while under the influence of the mushrooms.
It was altogether pretty crazy, though it left me not craving any trips for awhile. I need some time to integrate this one...
 

frizzantik

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Originally posted by Curious_George:
frizzantik,
I beg to differ with you on this point. ALD-52 just isn't that special.
etc.

im not making a point as much as im asking if its a possibility.
i'm not looking to try other drugs just investigating a therory of mine.
My laminate peronality experience didnt really relate to my as much as it was something i felt within me. I'm pretty sure both of the personalities that expressed themselves were aspects of myself that I like.. i just found it easy to move from one personality to the other i guess. and it was very fun the whole time, never crazy or stressful. in a lot of ways it was very similar to the description in the 1st quote
anyways curous george have you experienced ald-52? i'm just trying to assemble any and all info and thoughts on ald-52 in this thread.. not trying to prove anything or argue a point, although i've thought for a while (and had a more experience tripper concur with me) that it did seem like a different experience, but lasted the same amount of time and was hard to differentiate if you werent paying attention.
I'm sure LSD from sandoz was LSD. But its known that Orange Sunshine was likely ALD, so who knows who else made it back in the day, and who knows who was making it a few years ago.
[ 23 September 2002: Message edited by: frizzantik ]
 

michael

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Originally posted by Love In Vein:
I have a friend who's mom told me once about how insane the late 60's acid was and the reason she stopped tripping is because she had a 72 hour trip that completely surpassed any LSD trip I've ever heard of. She also mentioned that what she took looked like pellets of gerbil food.
It was actually DOM. I had her read about it and she said that her experience matched it perfectly, and DOM was known to go around in the form of little organic looking pellets at that time as well.

yeah, it's so easy to match up a drug experience that happened 25 years ago.
btw lsd came in pellets then as well.
 

fruitbat

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I just ran into some ALD-52 the very same day that i saw this post. I will post a report in a few weeks. In the mean time does anyone who has actually tried it have anything to say about it?
 

roliepolie

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I have ingested ALD-52 several times.
It has a texture all it's own. :)
The body is quite simply the best thing I have ever felt in my feet. For those who know me, my feet determine whether I like the chemical :)
I can obtain this chemical almost instantly.
It is in Texas for sure. I am in Missouri.
It is going for like 300 bucks per 100 hits.
I dosed 5 of them once and actually had an orgasm when someone sat on my lap. And I wasn't the slightest bit embarrased. :)
It's easier for me to obtain than LSD is! I assure you of that.
 
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