• Current Events, Politics
    & Science

    Welcome Guest
    Please read before posting:
    Forum Guidelines Bluelight Rules
  • CEPS Moderators: cduggles | Deru | mal3volent
  • Bluelight HOT THREADS
  • Let's Welcome Our NEW MEMBERS!

Politics The 2020 Candidates: Right, Left and Center!

JGrimez

Bluelighter
Joined
Jan 23, 2018
Messages
3,904
It really is pretty amazing how we've been brainwashed into believing that a bloated for-profit healthcare system is somehow better for us than not-for-profit, and that "socialist" ideas are terrible for us and inevitably lead to people being executed against brick walls, when nearly the entire rest of the developed world has these things in place already and have for some time.
People are skeptical of giving the government more power. Even if they f**ked it up it could still be better than the system the US has now, but they don't really have a good track record of responsible spending so people are suspicious. There's also the questionable effectiveness of socialized healthcare systems. I agree it needs to change, whether Bernie has the answers and capabilities to do so.... I'll guess we'll see soon if enough people believe that.
 

mal3volent

Sr. Moderator: CEPS, TL, S&G
Staff member
Joined
Jun 6, 2011
Messages
12,822
^ Medicare is extremely popular right now and it's a government run health care system.
 

Xorkoth

Administrator: PD, TR, P&S
Staff member
Joined
Feb 8, 2006
Messages
46,645
Location
In the mountains
People are skeptical of giving the government more power. Even if they f**ked it up it could still be better than the system the US has now, but they don't really have a good track record of responsible spending so people are suspicious. There's also the questionable effectiveness of socialized healthcare systems. I agree it needs to change, whether Bernie has the answers and capabilities to do so.... I'll guess we'll see soon if enough people believe that.
I definitely get the suspicion, it's true there is a bad track record. I guess I just trust Bernie to at least have our interests at heart. The current system is clearly unsustainable, as evidenced by rising premiums every year and continually rising health care costs. We need to do something, I think we just need to try. Medicare for all is the right direction, IMO. I don't think it's realistic to expect a for-profit healthcare system and a for-profit government structure to regulate itself.
 

Burnt Offerings

Bluelighter
Joined
Jan 18, 2010
Messages
4,874
Location
USA
It's totally rational to be suspicious of the state. Especially over the last decade or so, when there's been a drift towards authoritarianism in both the political right and political left (at least that's how it seems to me)

But, on the other hand, some problems are so large that they necessitate collective action and mobilization, and that state seems like the only entity out there that could organize a sufficient response...two that come immediately to mind here in the USA are healthcare and the environment, IMO. The private sector sure as hell isn't going to solve the problems...just look no further than insurance companies, prescription drug companies, and the fossil fuel/petrochemical industry for proof of that

M4A seems like a good proposal to me...I think of it as a middle-ground proposal, between the public option (or even some kind of reformed ACA lol) and a completely nationalized NHS-style system like they have in Britain
 

mal3volent

Sr. Moderator: CEPS, TL, S&G
Staff member
Joined
Jun 6, 2011
Messages
12,822
.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Xorkoth

Administrator: PD, TR, P&S
Staff member
Joined
Feb 8, 2006
Messages
46,645
Location
In the mountains
I early voted in the primary yesterday... Bernie got my vote.

LOL @ "Bern Notice". I wonder if it's a nod to the USA channel show, Burn Notice? I loved that show.
 

JGrimez

Bluelighter
Joined
Jan 23, 2018
Messages
3,904
I remember how Obamacare was going to ruin the world.
It ruined the world for a lot of people who were forced to buy healthcare and were lied to about the premiums. Obamacare was terrible. Just open up the free market and allow competition.
 

mal3volent

Sr. Moderator: CEPS, TL, S&G
Staff member
Joined
Jun 6, 2011
Messages
12,822
It ruined the world for a lot of people who were forced to buy healthcare and were lied to about the premiums. Obamacare was terrible. Just open up the free market and allow competition.
the reason it's terrible is because Republicans wouldn't agree to a public option.
 

mal3volent

Sr. Moderator: CEPS, TL, S&G
Staff member
Joined
Jun 6, 2011
Messages
12,822
Nancy Pelosi said we had to vote on ACA before we could read it, so how could one possibly blame Republicans?
well I blame Obama too, to be fair. He gave up on it too easily.

the House passed the bill that included a public option and it was taken out in the senate.
 

Xorkoth

Administrator: PD, TR, P&S
Staff member
Joined
Feb 8, 2006
Messages
46,645
Location
In the mountains
It ruined the world for a lot of people who were forced to buy healthcare and were lied to about the premiums. Obamacare was terrible. Just open up the free market and allow competition.
The mandate made sense in theory but it did screw some people. However a few friends of mine below the poverty level ended up getting nearly free health care from it. My girlfriend works but has some adrenal issues and very low energy coupled with depression, and works a fairly low number of hours at a random low-stress coffee shop job, and doesn't make a lot of money (she supplements with under the table bud trimming in the fall but they don't know about that obviously). The first year I knew her, when Obama was still in office before they started trying to take it apart, she paid $8 a month for healthcare with a low deductible. These days she's paying about $80/month but it's still really cheap. In contrast, my work pays 80% of my health care costs, but I still pay about $140 a month. For slightly better health care, in that I get out of network and some extra things covered (like mental health care 100% covered for example, which ironically she needs and I don't), but her co-pay for specialists is lower than mine. Another friend was getting $60/month until he started making a lot of money. I'm not sure but it's possible it's dependent on your state. In any case my friends in my state with low incomes who get insurance through Obamacare are really happy about it and it has allowed them to get health coverage for the first time in their adult lives after they were off their parents' (if they ever had it through their parents). For a lot of people. it did the opposite of "ruining the world".

I wish health care companies would let you cover domestic partners who aren't married as spouses, it's about time they did that as a lot of people don't care to get married.
 

atara

Bluelighter
Joined
Apr 1, 2010
Messages
2,539
Location
not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent
it's about time they did that as a lot of people don't care to get married.
The reason people don't get married is basically that it makes breaking up expensive. But this would also make breaking up expensive. Maybe slightly less.

The premium issue with PPACA can largely be fixed by lowering the Medicare age, which would reduce the price floor on insurance for young people, because the price floor is 1/3 the price of insuring a 65-year-old. Additionally changing the 3:1 to 4 or 5 to 1 would lower premiums further. See:



But the other problem with PPACA is the coverage gap, a problem created entirely by Republican state lawmakers being grandiosely obstructive. In a bid to "stop Obama" they've refused to expand Medicaid, which means that people in those states who should have been offered Medicaid coverage instead get nothing. Nobody actually supports this outcome; Republicans are basically holding innocent people hostage to try to force a rewrite on their terms. Thankfully the dominoes are beginning to fall in favor of sanity: 36 states have now implemented the expansion.

 
Top