• Current Events, Politics
    & Science

    Welcome Guest
    Please read before posting:
    Forum Guidelines Bluelight Rules
  • CEPS Moderators: cduggles | mal3volent
  • Bluelight HOT THREADS
  • Let's Welcome Our NEW MEMBERS!

Politics The 2020 Candidates: Right, Left and Center!

JGrimez

Temporary Ban
Joined
Jan 23, 2018
Messages
3,865
are those the cages built under the Obama administration? Another example of how flip-flops can happen in just a few short years for political expediency. fake fake fake outrage
 

Xorkoth

Administrator: PD, TR, P&S
Staff member
Joined
Feb 8, 2006
Messages
46,501
Location
In the mountains
The US Democratic and the Republican parties are on the same page when it comes to the issue that really matters - the ideology that infuses US foreign policy and how it is used to bankroll the US economy and the mega-rich.

Since Bernie Sanders is an outspoken critic of that same ideology, both the Democratic and Republican parties are in full agreement that Bernie cannot be President. Indeed, the Democratic party mandarins see him as a much bigger threat than Trump. In fact, the Democrats don't really see Trump as a threat at all.

The highest priority for any political party is to become or stay necessary and relevant. That doesn't mean actually being in power, a position of necessary and relevant opposition will do very well.

The US Democratic party is therefore content to see Trump re-elected because:

1) Trump will continue to toe the line on the Dem-Rep unified party line on foreign policy and American exceptionalism.

2) Trump would probably beat Bernie in the unlikely event that he is allowed to become the Democratic nominee.

3) By hysterically sounding the alarm on Trump's 'autocratic leanings', the Democratic party continues to remain a 'necessary and relevant bulwark against Trump's encroaching fascism'.

In all of it, the vast majority of American's are being profoundly manipulated and deceived.
I agree that establishment Dems probably see Bernie as a bigger threat to them than Trump, because at least Trump is chummy with the corporate interests and is toeing the line. I'm wondering why it is you aren't pulling for Bernie, in that case?
 

TheLoveBandit

Co-Owner
Joined
Feb 22, 2000
Messages
32,857
Location
Getting to the point ...
Article written by someone who describes themselves as

I’ve been a Democrat for 20 years, but my experience made me realize just how out of touch my party is with the country at large


I've cut A LOT of the article out, but the whole thing is a good read and I recommend it to anyone regardless of which way they lean.


After Attending a Trump Rally, I Now Know Democrats Have No Shot in 2020

I think those of us on the left need to take a long look in the mirror and have an honest conversation about what’s going on.

If you had told me three years ago that I would ever attend a Donald Trump rally, I would have laughed and assured you that was never going to happen. Heck, if you had told me I would do it three months ago, I probably would have done the same thing. So, how did I find myself among 11,000-plus Trump supporters in Manchester, New Hampshire? Believe it or not, it all started with knitting.

...

I had attended an event with all the Democratic contenders just two days prior in exactly the same arena, and the contrast was stark. First, Trump completely filled the arena all the way up to the top. Even with every major Democratic candidate in attendance the other night, and the campaigns giving away free tickets, the Democrats did not do that. With Trump, every single person was unified around a singular goal. With the Democrats, the audience booed over candidates they didn’t like and got into literal shouting matches with each other. With Trump, there was a genuinely optimistic view of the future. With the Democrats, it was doom and gloom. With Trump, there was a genuine feeling of pride of being an American. With the Democrats, they emphasized that the country was a racist place from top to bottom.

...

The reality is that many people I spoke to do disagree with Trump on things. They don’t always like his attitude. They wish he wouldn’t tweet so much. People who are in cults don’t question their leaders. The people I spoke with did, but the pros in their eyes far outweighed the cons. They don’t love him because they think he’s perfect. They love him despite his flaws, because they believe he has their back.

As I left the rally—walking past thousands of people who were watching it on a giant monitor outside the arena because they couldn’t get in—I knew there was no way Trump would lose in November. Absolutely no way. I truly believe that it doesn’t matter who the Democrats nominate: Trump is going to trounce them. If you don’t believe me, attend one of his rallies and see for yourself. Don’t worry, they really won’t hurt you.

Today, I voted in the New Hampshire Democratic Primary for Pete Buttigieg. I genuinely feel that Pete would be great for this country, and maybe he’ll have his opportunity in the future. But tomorrow, I’ll be changing my voter registration from Democrat to Independent and walking away from the party I’ve spent the past 20 years in to sit in the middle for a while. There are extremes in both parties that I am uncomfortable with, but I also fundamentally believe that most people on both sides are good, decent human beings who want the best for the country and have dramatic disagreements on how to get there. But until we start seeing each other as human beings, there will be no bridging the divide. I refuse to be a part of the divisiveness any longer. I refuse to hate people I don’t know simply because they choose to vote for someone else. If we’re going to heal the country, we have to start taking steps toward one another rather than away.

I think the Democrats have an ass-kicking coming to them in November, and I think most of them will be utterly shocked when it happens, because they’re existing in an echo chamber that is not reflective of the broader reality. I hope it’s a wake-up call that causes them to take a long look in the mirror and really ask themselves how they got here. Maybe then they’ll start listening. I tend to doubt it, but I can hope.
 

alasdairm

Bluelight Crew
Joined
Jul 22, 2002
Messages
61,621
Location
south lake tahoe, ca
...because they believe he has their back.
does anybody here sincerely believe that trump has the back of the average trump voter (whatever that means)?

i believe that a lot of people supported trump because they were genuinely frustrated with business-as-usual in washington and thought he was different. i believe that many still believe he's different in the face of a lot of evidence to the contrary. i also believe there's a reasonably large constituency of trump supporters who are now so on the bandwagon that almost nothing would convince them to change their minds...

some trump supporters will believe absolutely anything, regardless of how outrageous or untrue it is...


obviously that's been edited in such a way as to crudely make the point but he asked the questions and they answered. it would be funnier if it wasn't so sad...

you voted for trump because he said he'd build a wall along the southern border and mexico would pay for it?

fact: about 110 miles of new wall have been built at a cost to the u.s. taxpayer of $30 million per mile

you voted for trump because he said he'd negotiate better trade deals?

in the past, trump has said that the stupidity of prior administrations who allowed countries like china, mexico and germany to walk all over america can be measured by the u.s. traded deficit. trump set up a number of trade wars declaring "i love tariffs".

fact: last march, the u.s. commerce department announced that the u.s. trade deficit had hit an all-time high of ~$891 billion. the deficit with china alone reached a record high of $491 billion. by trump's own measure, his administration is the most stupid.

you voted for trump because he'd sort out north korea?

last year trump boasted, in a 'mission-accomplished' moment that "there is no longer a Nuclear Threat from North Korea". he talked publicly about winning the nobel peace prize.

fact: daniel coates (u.s. director of national intelligence) told congress in january that nk is unlikely to completely give up its nuclear weapons. nk continues to work on its missile program.

you voted for trump because he said he'd repeal obamacare and replace it with something better?

fact: not so much. obamacare remains law although trump and the republicans have chipped away at it (e.g. personal mandate). there's been absolutely no sign of a better replacement.

you voted for trump because he promised to spend up to $1.5 trillion on the nation's infrastructure?

fact: he's tweeted about it a fair bit but nothing has really happened

you voted for trump because he promised to drain the swamp?

no facts here - it's all opinion but arguably the most corrupt, nepotistic, dysfunctional administration for some time

where does that leave trump voters who voted for him because of these big, broken campaign promises: wall; trade; nk; obamacare, etc.?

alasdair
 
Last edited:

JGrimez

Temporary Ban
Joined
Jan 23, 2018
Messages
3,865
I agree that establishment Dems probably see Bernie as a bigger threat to them than Trump, because at least Trump is chummy with the corporate interests and is toeing the line. I'm wondering why it is you aren't pulling for Bernie, in that case?
Because Trump through his election to the presidency, whether purposefully or unwittingly or both, has exposed a lot of government corruption that Sanders refused to call out when he decided to play politician while they fucked him. For all the negative things you could say about Trump's tactless demeanor, he doesn't take as much political shit from these people and often straight calls them out on it. Now am I happy with how much he's done to investigate and prosecute all that exposed corruption? Fuck no. Do I think Sanders will do more than Trump? Fuck no. Sanders speak about very real problems but he has shit solutions. At least Trump is realistic and is seemingly doing at least something to make this broken system more tolerable for the average person (at least economically). My preferred candidate has always been Gabbard for her anti-war stance. If you want to fix the country then stop the indiscriminate spending for the military to engage in unnecessary overseas conflicts (Sanders is quite quick and content to approve defense spending budget bills). Save that money and put it back into the country to raise the overall standard of living. Another upside to stopping the wars is that you're not blowing up innocent babies in developing countries.
 

JGrimez

Temporary Ban
Joined
Jan 23, 2018
Messages
3,865
Yeah but Trump is not ending the wars...
He's done more to end them (Syria, NK) than start new ones like Dubya and Obomber were wont to do . But I disagree with the decision to assassinate Soleimani for Israel. Trump could allow the Zionists to push him into a war with Iran if he's not careful.

Tulsi is anti-war, Bernie Sanders is not fucking anti-war.
 

JGrimez

Temporary Ban
Joined
Jan 23, 2018
Messages
3,865
Why isn't Bloomberg being smeared as a racist in the media like Trump was?

Oh that's because they don't care about the truth and are fake news.
 

Xorkoth

Administrator: PD, TR, P&S
Staff member
Joined
Feb 8, 2006
Messages
46,501
Location
In the mountains
Yeah, source for that?

Trump is starting a war with Iran. He pulled out of Syria (abandoning our Kurdish allies and strengthening ISIS's position), but moved those troops to Iraq, didn't bring them home like he said was the reason for doing it. He's made big talk about stopping wars but it hasn't happened.
 

JGrimez

Temporary Ban
Joined
Jan 23, 2018
Messages
3,865
If you disagree put forth an argument.


Trump is starting a war with Iran.
As of now the war has not started so we cannot say that Trump started a war with Iran. It looked like he was about to start a war with NK and then the opposite happened, they became open for talks with the US and took action to improve their relationship with South Korea. This was a +1 for Trump and those were anti-war results (his opponents refuse to concede that though). I mentioned to ongoing tension with Iran and I criticize Trump for that, but I'm more realistic, as opposed to heaping all the blame on Trump like the libs love to do, I can see how he is capitulating to Israel in order to gain some concessions from them or allow domestic wins back home.

He pulled out of Syria (abandoning our Kurdish allies and strengthening ISIS's position)
This is anti-Trump, liberal media propaganda. Anything he does is spun as a negative. Liberals don't even really care about the Kurds (the only reason we support the Kurds is because it's geo-strategically beneficial for Israel to have infighting among the 4 countries in which the Kurds reside). The Kurds just became a MSM talking point after Trump took the anti-war move of pulling troops out of Syria (US troops should never have been there in the first place and it was hilarious to see liberals cheering for more war and troops in Syria). Putin did the majority of the work in destroying ISIS in Syria but Trump did help towards the end and did take some action against ISIS (it was Obama/Hillary who were discreetly pro-ISIS). But then Trump goes and assassinates Soleimani who was one of ISIS's mortal enemies - the ISIS publication cheered that assassination and called it a present from God. Again this was pressure on Trump from the Israelis (Soleimani was #1 on their hit list according to Jerusalem Post October 2019).

He's made big talk about stopping wars but it hasn't happened.
I'm not happy with the results compared to his promises, but he's still infinitely better on this issue than any of the politicians in recent history and every single current presidential candidate (minus Tulsi Gabbard).
 

JGrimez

Temporary Ban
Joined
Jan 23, 2018
Messages
3,865
Yeah, source for that?
"Sanders supported Bill Clinton’s war on Serbia, voted for the 2001 Authorization Unilateral Military Force Against Terrorists (AUMF), which pretty much allowed Bush to wage war wherever he wanted, backed Obama’s Libyan debacle and supports an expanded US role in the Syrian Civil War." = that's not fucking anti-war. AT ALL.

1. He voted in favor of use of force (euphemism for bombing) in 12 sovereign nations that never represented a threat to the U.S.:
Afghanistan - Lebanon - Libya - Palestine - Somalia - Syria
Yemen - Yugoslavia - Haiti - Liberia - Zaire (Congo) - Sudan
2. He has accepted campaign money from Defense contractor Raytheon. He continues his undying support of the $1.5 trillion F-35 industry and said that predator drones "have done some very good things". Sanders has always voted in favor of awarding more corporate welfare for the military industrial complex - and even if he says he's against a particular war he ends up voting in favor of funding it.

3. He routinely backs appropriations for imperial wars, the corporate scam of Obamacare, wholesale surveillance and bloated defense budgets.

9. He expressed staunch support for the aid of violently right-wing separatist forces such as the self-styled Kosovo Liberation Army, whose members were trained as Mujahideen, during Clinton's 100-day bombing of Yugoslavia and Kosovo in 1999. He has an extensive record of supporting jihadist proxies for the overthrow of sovereign governments in Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Libya and Syria.

10. He supported Bill Clinton's sanctions against Iraq, sanctions that prohibited medicines for infants and children...more than 500,000 innocents killed for no other reason than that they were Iraqi.


https://www.sott.net/article/302535-What-liberals-probably-dont-know-about-war-monger-Bernie-Sanders (VIDEO)


He's also championing a new Cold War against Russia by constantly parroting the baseless propaganda that's demonizing them.
 
Top