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Teeth!

Journyman16

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First thing - stop all kinds of fluoride. ALL the science says the only version of fluoride that might work is topical. (i.e. brushing with it) And they NEVER do tests of brushing teeth versus brushing with fluoride, only brushing with fluoride versus no brushing at all. Why? Because fluoride doesn't do bugger all for your teeth, it's the brushing!

There is NO SCIENCE that says drinking the shit helps and all the OTHER Science says it cannot possibly affect your teeth after you are more than about 10 - 12 years old. And there IS science that says drinking it accumulats in your body and improves your chances of cancer and a variety of other deadly shit.

And it actually gives you all the things it is meant to protect against. Fluorosis - look it up - you get it from USING fluoride. Look online for better toothpastes or just use water and a brush.
 

Erikmen

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This thread gives me chills.

I haven't visited the dentist in over 6 years, and im absolutely terrified to do so. I was traumatized as a child and it's a struggle to convince myself to go.. but my teeth are not doing so well, i think been half-english has pre-disposed me to fucked teeth. There all perfectly in alignment except for one, but my gums are bleeding almost everytime i brush my teeth.. the plaque buildup behind my bottom teeth has solidified so much that its become an extension of the teeth.. i've chipped one tooth and i've had all my wisdom teeth pulled out. There also stained yellow from tea and past cigarette use..

I think the enamel on one of the top molars has been partially stripped and exposed a nerve because if i touch it with my nail, it sends a super sharp pain through my gums. This makes me more afraid just to get a scale and clean from the dentist..

I wish i could just pay them an advance in cash to knock me unconscious with an anaesthetic.

My panic is about how much money I´ll have to spend.
 

pill_billy

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i think been half-english has pre-disposed me to fucked teeth.

I think the enamel on one of the top molars has been partially stripped and exposed a nerve because if i touch it with my nail, it sends a super sharp pain through my gums.

you think??? really??? lie to me but dont lie to yourself lol jp

but you might need a root canal if your getting a pain like that from touching it... but the only i do know is its not gona get better on its own and the longer you wait the more chances or a painful operation... good luck
 

Erikmen

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Right on. The long we wait the worst it gets. Good old days when my worry was only the pain, now I have to think of all the money plus do it in different dentists as everyone specializes in a very narrow part of the treatment. I should have become a dentist instead.
 

effingcustie

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or a gun
What sort of foods should I eat which might strenghten my teeth and prevent this from happenning? Could a vegan diet be contributing? I supplement the fuck outta myself so shouldn't be deficient..

Vegan diet might be a factor. Check out Weston A Price. He was a dentist, British I believe, who wanted to find out more about cavities and how to prevent them, who studied the diets of many different indigenous groups all over the world, and found that not only did they not have cavities, but did not have many other diseases plaguing the Western world. But I mention this because two things he's really big on are bone broths and lots of fat from healthy animal sources.
 

swilow

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^Yeah, intuitively, I feel that veganism is unhealthy. I take supplements but the body has evolved to accept these susbtances in specific forms... I think I am going to begin consuming dairy again. Possibly even sustainably sourced fatty fish too, allegedly good for gums...

This thread gives me chills.

I haven't visited the dentist in over 6 years, and im absolutely terrified to do so. I was traumatized as a child and it's a struggle to convince myself to go.. but my teeth are not doing so well, i think been half-english has pre-disposed me to fucked teeth. There all perfectly in alignment except for one, but my gums are bleeding almost everytime i brush my teeth.. the plaque buildup behind my bottom teeth has solidified so much that its become an extension of the teeth.. i've chipped one tooth and i've had all my wisdom teeth pulled out. There also stained yellow from tea and past cigarette use..

I think the enamel on one of the top molars has been partially stripped and exposed a nerve because if i touch it with my nail, it sends a super sharp pain through my gums. This makes me more afraid just to get a scale and clean from the dentist..

I wish i could just pay them an advance in cash to knock me unconscious with an anaesthetic.

I feel you buddy, I really do... Best thing to do is just face up to it and get to the denitst. I'll tell you one secret I have learned, and its that teeth do not spontaneously regenerate. They don't really self-heal either...:\

I had a fair bit of plaque too behind my teeth but had it scraped off and now I (very carefully) use an electric toothbrush.

The ssensitivity or pain you describe may be from receding gums; they eventually expose the root which causes pain. Flossing is really the only way to prevent gum recession and maintaining a neutral-ish oral environment...

I know you are Australian- are you in Melbourne- let me know, I know a truly gentle dentist I can reccomend if keen...

I too blame my english heritage. My sisters first set of teeth emerged already decayed and my family have always had problems with teeth. It sucks tbh...

My panic is about how much money I´ll have to spend.

Oh yeah, but you just have no choice. A cheap dentist is not one I could trust. It frustrates me spending money on this but have. no. choice.

I guess I am fortunate in the sense that I don't have to be that concerned by expense. I inherited enough money to ensure that I can waste it on rectifying mistakes of a drug addicted lowlife. Still, fuck that! :D

Right on. The long we wait the worst it gets. Good old days when my worry was only the pain, now I have to think of all the money plus do it in different dentists as everyone specializes in a very narrow part of the treatment. I should have become a dentist instead.

Can you please? Can you be a dentist that is very easy with his prescription pad too? :D

I feel like an ass complaining about this shit really. But fuck. :|

I am off to the dentist soon and have taken some methadone to see me through it. Good excuse I think....;)
 

One Thousand Words

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First thing - stop all kinds of fluoride. ALL the science says the only version of fluoride that might work is topical. (i.e. brushing with it) And they NEVER do tests of brushing teeth versus brushing with fluoride, only brushing with fluoride versus no brushing at all. Why? Because fluoride doesn't do bugger all for your teeth, it's the brushing!

There is NO SCIENCE that says drinking the shit helps and all the OTHER Science says it cannot possibly affect your teeth after you are more than about 10 - 12 years old. And there IS science that says drinking it accumulats in your body and improves your chances of cancer and a variety of other deadly shit.

And it actually gives you all the things it is meant to protect against. Fluorosis - look it up - you get it from USING fluoride. Look online for better toothpastes or just use water and a brush.

I have been a dentist for almost 20 years and do you know hoe many cases of fluorosis I have come across? 2. Both of which were kids who had a habit of eating toothpaste by the tuneful. Even then you will be hard pressed to weaken the teeth so such an extent that anyone would notice the difference.

The city I have lived in only introduced fluoride into it's drinking water within the last 10 years. The science definitely backs up that dental health benefits of fluoride as decay rates have dramatically reduced. Walk away before you embarrass yourself any more.
 

Journyman16

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Australia
The city I have lived in only introduced fluoride into it's drinking water within the last 10 years. The science definitely backs up that dental health benefits of fluoride as decay rates have dramatically reduced. Walk away before you embarrass yourself any more.
Or you could look at Toronto and Montreal for real life examples.
In 1992 a U.S. study found a strong link between fluoridation and osteosarcoma, a bone cancer in young males. The rates of this malignancy were three to seven times higher in fluoridated areas.

Other studies in China show reduced IQ in children overexposed to fluoride from drinking water. Further effects include decreased concentration, memory loss and confusion. There's also concern that fluoridation is implicated in Alzheimer's Disease since fluoride combines with aluminum to cross the blood brain barrier.


I didn't know that Torontonians have double the fluoride levels in hip bones than Montrealers whose city water is not fluoridated. Studies also show that fluoride causes decreased levels of sperm and testosterone. I wonder if that explains the rumour that they make love in Montreal while Torontonians only think about making money.


Carl Sagan, the noted astronomer, was right when discussing "authoritarian" judgments. He remarked that "arguments from authority do not count; too many authorities have been mistaken too often".
From: http://canadafreepress.com/medical/teeth012107.htm

Any Google search will give information as to why fluoride is not a good choice. And the research says it can't actually affect our teeth once we are post-pubescent. And we definitely should NOT be drinking it.

I don't find it embarrassing to go by what the science says.
 

One Thousand Words

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How about comparing every capital city in Australia vs Brisbane. No difference in bone cancers, arthritis, heart disease, hip fractures, yet decay rates 6 times more before fluoride was introduced. Add that to 80 years of scientific research by the WHO, then come back to me with you single report from Canada free press. The alarm bells should have been your source.
Most parents are unaware of dental fluorosis, a discolouration of teeth due to excess fluoride. I
They are unaware of it because it is diagnosed as a single white fleck, something that the majority of the population all have. Hardly a massive side effect in my experience.

I'm a businessman. I track everything in my practice. I know what your fund is, whether a new cement my guys use fails at a greater rate than one I used for five years, the average bill from referals from a particular source etc. I track every patient who refuses topical fluoride and I can tell you that the annual bill for these patients is $725 higher than the average patient in my practice. Now you won't find that in any scientific research paper, because I have no desire to fuck around in my spare time correlating and spell checking, and why would I release my figures to my competitor? But I can run a report using my practice software in 15 minutes.

If you google doctored saliva and fluoride you would find hundred of poor lab monkeys measuring saliva concentrations of fluoride tracked over time. You'll also find people measuring the bio films and plaque, because it is a known fact that fluoride is absorbed in plaque to create a resouvoir of fluoride that will maintain fluoride protection. fluoride is also stored in your saliva.

Personally I'd be more concerned with the vast research pointing to the link between heart disease and gum disease before I worried myself with cancer rates that of less than 1 in hundreds of thousands
 
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NightsEpiphany

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final frontier
Someone asked me a few years ago what did I think my best feature was and I replied 'my smile'.

Drugs, pregablin being the main culprit, have ruined my teeth. being a calcium blocker it has resulted loads of fillings and actually having to have a few pulled.

I lost a canine recently and had to spend about 6 weeks without a tooth while it healed. I think I learnt a lot about vanity.

Got my new tooth yesterday :D V pleased with it.

Oh yeah I smoked for years too and they obviously don't do you any favours in the smile department.
 

swilow

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So the major downside of fluoride is fluorosis which is excessively white spots on teeth.

Fuck, ban this shit immediately.

Seriously, some good posts here. Thanks for the input from most :)

journeyman said:
I don't find it embarrassing to go by what the science says.

Well, you must have some aversion to science so little do you actually utilise the principles of it.
 

Journyman16

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It's strange how often querying the 'consensus' view brings personal comment rather than simply dealing with the issues. Perhaps it's too much fluoride?

There are many studies about the negative effects of fluoride. And it's not only fluorosis.
SUMMARY: The Intelligence Quotient (IQ) was measured in 512 children, aged 8–13 years, living in two villages in Sihong County, Jiangsu Province, China, differing in the level of fluoride in their drinking water.

In the highfluoride village of Wamiao (water fluoride: 2.47±0.79 mg/L; range: 0.57–4.50 mg/L), the mean IQ of 222 children was significantly lower (92.02±13.00; range: 54–126) than in the low-fluoride village of Xinhuai (water fluoride: 0.36±0.15 mg/L; range: 0.18–0.76 mg/L), where the mean IQ of 290 children was higher (100.41±13.21; range: 60–128).

The children’s IQs were not related to urinary iodine, family income, or parent’s education level. Higher drinking water fluoride levels were significantly associated with higher rates of mental retardation (IQ <70) and borderline intelligence (IQ 70–79).
From: 84 Fluoride Vol. 36 No. 2 84-94 2003 Research Report - Center for Disease Control and Prevention, Jiangsu Province, China.

Note that the fluoridation levels of most places that use it in the public water systems is higher than the low level of the 2 villages.

Where I get quotes from doesn't affect who they are quoting. Many previously staunch advocates of fluoridation have changed their minds and the history of the idea of fluoridation is a fascinating study in public manipulation.
Dr. Hardy Limeback, head of Preventive Dentistry at the University of Toronto is an outspoken critic of fluoridation and says it’s a noxious substance that threatens public health and creates minimal benefit to a very few who can achieve greater results from other means, such as fluoridated toothpaste, which is universally available and practically unavoidable.

He says the substance dumped in drinking water is a toxic industrial waste product that children under three must avoid entirely to prevent dental fluorosis. Limeback says it accumulates in adults and can cause a litany of aliments from kidney impairment to serious bone and joint disorders. He adds that it’s unethical to medicate an entire population without consulting them.
As for fluorosis, it is not just white spots, it is also brown staining. You have only to be observant walking the streets and in cafés to see how many teeth are not optimally white and there is a reason one of the most common dental treatments is teeth whitening.
 

swilow

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^I wasn't making a personal remark, I was commenting on how you don't appear to utilise the principles of science despite claiming to. That's just a summation of what I see, not a personal criticism. I didn't intend you to take it personally. Perhaps that's the problem though?

FWIW, anyone is free to post anything they want, but I am looking for some actual help here and am uninterested in being involved in another boring internet shitfight. I would really appreciate it if you could cease the conspiratorial diversions in this topic because its not helpful, off-topic and irrelevant. Start this topic somehwere else, this is a health thread talking about teeth and its a topic I am genuinely seeking insight on, not your (admittedly entertaining) form of reality :)
 

One Thousand Words

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Journeyman, you must have me confused with someone who actually gives a shit whether you use fluoride or not. I am not in the industry for my love of spit and blood, I'm in it to make bank, and I happen to be very good at it.

If you choose to avoid using fluoride, more fool you. And more ponies for my daughter. Unlike anti vaccinators, the only mouth you are hurting is your own.
 

Snake_Eyes

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Someone asked me a few years ago what did I think my best feature was and I replied 'my smile'.

Drugs, pregablin being the main culprit, have ruined my teeth. being a calcium blocker it has resulted loads of fillings and actually having to have a few pulled.

I lost a canine recently and had to spend about 6 weeks without a tooth while it healed. I think I learnt a lot about vanity.

Got my new tooth yesterday :D V pleased with it.

Oh yeah I smoked for years too and they obviously don't do you any favours in the smile department.

What dose of Lyrica were you on and for how long? I'm just starting my third year on it and as of 3-4 months ago I was cavity free.
 

Journyman16

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^I wasn't making a personal remark, I was commenting on how you don't appear to utilise the principles of science despite claiming to. That's just a summation of what I see, not a personal criticism. I didn't intend you to take it personally. Perhaps that's the problem though?

FWIW, anyone is free to post anything they want, but I am looking for some actual help here and am uninterested in being involved in another boring internet shitfight. I would really appreciate it if you could cease the conspiratorial diversions in this topic because its not helpful, off-topic and irrelevant. Start this topic somehwere else, this is a health thread talking about teeth and its a topic I am genuinely seeking insight on, not your (admittedly entertaining) form of reality :)
It came across that way, so if that was not how it was meant, my apologies. Put it down to the ongoing and incessant attacks I get for providing alternate views.

I posted here because the standard ideas of fluoride are not reality - it began with aluminium companies trying to avoid millions in fines for polluting the environment with toxic chemicals and has progressed to mandating toxic chemicals in our water. If you have teeth problems the best solution is brushing and flossing, not drinking carcinogens.

And I post the references to what I am saying (mostly - sometimes I forget) so people can go check for themselves. THAT'S how science works, not by relying on the MSM and Authority. So many people just accept what they are told and never look for anything else. I figured maybe you'd want to know fluoride (pretty much omnipresent in anything sold for teeth) is not good. In fact you're better off brushing with most soaps than toothpaste. Salt works well and is good for gums as well.
 

swilow

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^My issue is that the majority of science that I can find seems to deny your perspective. How you came to it must be a rejection of that science and I don't see the reason for that.

As I said, I want useful advice, not a pointless internet argument that I have no interest in. Push the agenda elsewhere please.

onethousandwords said:
Unlike anti vaccinators, the only mouth you are hurting is your own.

Bertrand Russel's private life would beg to differ. ;)

On topic, I am experiencing some radiating pain in the general area of the newly broken tooth, but a consultation with my dentist yesterday indicated that there is no infection, just a broken tooth. I am getting it extracted on Tuesday, meaning that is the 2nd tooth in 3 months I've had taken out.

I guess I am kind of vain because I am really desperate not to lose my fucking teeth :|
 
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