Bupe tapering off suboxone

[blackmarket91]

I was on methadone for years i cold turkeyed off 195 july and around xmas time i had a week relapse and set me all the way back today makes 30 days i checked into a rehab 2 weeks ago and they asked me if i wanted a sub mat or taper i said taper but since my tapers ended iv felt like shit 9 days didn't feel enough

tbh i still wasnt great 5.5 months off methadone when i came off it before and the 2mg sub i was given held me for the day but now they wont give me it im considering switching t to sub starting at 2 mg and cutting them up into tiny pieces to slowly taper off because at least on subs i can work out hard and do my normal life which methadone got to the point where i was to lethargic also coming off it too

so given that little bit of info do you think its the better idea since i basically cold turkeyed off meth both times the sub doesnt get me high like methadone did so id not try to abuse it thats why i cold turkyd off methadone cause it could get me high at certain doses and i feel doing this switch i can have the energy t work again and slowly steadily take my time for a somewhat painless taper.

methadone also lowers ones t levels im curious if sub does the same as is see lots of fatter people on methadone and skinnier people on subs.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

Subs can lower testosterone too, but it's believed not to do so as much as methadone.
With that said, i've been on subs for 5 years now and my libido is practically dead, along with my energy.

I think once your tolerance to methadone lowers enough for suboxone to become effective, subs are pretty much almost the same as methadone in the long run, except it's like a diet/lite version of methadone. I've noticed a lot of the sedation, lethargy and tiredness can still be there, except you won't really feel "good" or "high" from it.
At first I was very energetic on buprenorphine & could get a lot done, but I think in the long term, it becomes similar to methadone in the fact that it turned me into a tired, lazy, constantly drowsy zombie. It still tackles my depressive symptoms some times & some days I do get a nice mood boost, along with some energy in the first hour or two from taking it, but I always seem to wind up very tired half way through the day.

Everyone's experiences differ though I guess.

 

[blackmarket91]

Subs can lower testosterone too, but it's believed not to do so as much as methadone.
With that said, i've been on subs for 5 years now and my libido is practically dead, along with my energy.

I think once your tolerance to methadone lowers enough for suboxone to become effective, subs are pretty much almost the same as methadone in the long run, except it's like a diet/lite version of methadone. I've noticed a lot of the sedation, lethargy and tiredness can still be there, except you won't really feel "good" or "high" from it.
At first I was very energetic on buprenorphine & could get a lot done, but I think in the long term, it becomes similar to methadone in the fact that it turned me into a tired, lazy, constantly drowsy zombie. It still tackles my depressive symptoms some times & some days I do get a nice mood boost, along with some energy in the first hour or two from taking it, but I always seem to wind up very tired half way through the day.

Everyone's experiences differ though I guess.

damn.. with that being said if i start out on 2 mg subs a day how long till i can taper off completely and feel ok to go do shit again i just asked my doc to put me on sub maintence as i felt it gave me energy that i know i wont have for long months of methadone withdrawals i felt i could stay on subs and eventually come off after a year or less hopefully? very scared here as i was a pro athlete working toward getting back into shape and if subs is gonna destroy my body the way methadone did then their was 0 point of switching imo

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

damn.. with that being said if i start out on 2 mg subs a day how long till i can taper off completely and feel ok to go do shit again i just asked my doc to put me on sub maintence as i felt it gave me energy that i know i wont have for long months of methadone withdrawals i felt i could stay on subs and eventually come off after a year or less hopefully? very scared here as i was a pro athlete working toward getting back into shape and if subs is gonna destroy my body the way methadone did then their was 0 point of switching imo

Are you worried about relapsing at all? If not, then a year on Suboxone is probably too long. The longer you're on buprenorphine, the longer it will take to withdrawal.
Long term maintenance is mostly for people who know they aren't going to be able to stop opioids and still need something tickling their receptors everyday.

I don't think there was totally 0 point of switching. While Suboxone carries a lot of the same risks as Methadone, the risks are cut in half dramatically since it's only a partial agonist. Methadone also affects more than just opiate receptors, so it can have it's own set of risks and side effects.

The good news is that 2mg is a decent dose (pretty low for maintenance). Most doctors like to throw 16mg-24mg at people for years. But since buprenorphine is so potent, 2mg actually is quite a big dose.

Think about this... For opiate naive folks in need of pain relief, buprenorphine can be prescribed in dosages of 0.02mcg, 0.04mcg, 0.07mcg. That's how potent it actually is. Your best bet is to use it for possibly a few weeks at most and every day drop your dose down a little bit until you get down to micrograms. If you decide to jump off at a microgram dose, your withdrawals should be a lot less intense. Once you get down to these low doses, you could try dosing every OTHER day too.

The lower doses have less of these side effects and effects on T & libido.

You will have to inevitably face SOME withdrawal if you decide you want to come off of it. But you can lessen the severity of it by slowly dropping your dose by a half a milligram or so over the course of a few weeks and then maybe rotating dosing every other day. But regardless, you will still be somewhat uncomfortable when you come off of it. Withdrawals from buprenorphine (suboxone) aren't as intense as Methadone withdrawal, but they are very drawn out and can go on for weeks/months.

If you're afraid of relapsing and such and would like to be on an opiate long term, I think 2mg dose of bupe is just fine. You really won't start experiencing loss of libido and lower T until you've been on it for a year to several years. So I think you'll be alright if you can manage to come off at 6mos-1year.


Keeping up with a good diet and exercise can also mitigate some of your worries while on Subs. I've been on subs for 5 years now. And while my libido is mostly dead & i've put on some pounds, I also take higher doses and am not an athlete or very active. Some days I feel like total shit because I have zero energy and drive. And then there are mornings where I wake up with morning wood (TMI, I know, but this means that my testosterone is fine lol).
Hopefully I was of some help to you!
Good luck friend! All the best! Cheers.

 

[ChinaGroove]

You said that you kicked a 195 mg a Methadone dependency. While that is very impressive and no small feat, you're back where you started, for all intents and purpose.
When the risk of relapse is still very much present, maintainence is a great choice. It obciously takes care of the physical symptoms while the brains frontal cortex repairs itself and you sort out the deep underlying psychological aspects of your addiction. Sure tapering is the "popular" choice without the stigma of maintainence. However, it only deals with the physical dependence. It does nothing to address the psychological component that leads to relapse. You have to be completely honest with yourself, otherwise you'll be back at the start YET AGAIN.
As for Subs vs Methadone, it's all preferance. I liked Methadone better. It held me better and that allowed me to carry on with life, not thinking about "more". Subs always hit me weird for some reason and just made me fell off. However, alot of people prefer Subs and only you can answer which one you should use.

 

[Phoenix_03]

Wondering how you walked off 195 mg methadone without a taper or a trunk full of other meds to ease the misery. I made it a week off 120 cold turkey before i used and dragged my ass into a detox facility.

 

[blackmarket91]

Wondering how you walked off 195 mg methadone without a taper or a trunk full of other meds to ease the misery. I made it a week off 120 cold turkey before i used and dragged my ass into a detox facility.

idk man i feel like that was all the strenght i had left this time it isnt the same mentally at least i feel i have more energy this time but fuck my heads a wreck i guess iw as able t do it cause iw anted to be free so bad so i fought through it not knowing exactly how long it would take and now that i relapsed 5.5 months later i know what i must go through all over again that my brain just says no way.... im really fucking scared here

im in a rehab atm and they have had me on subs for past like 18 days i was feeling a lot better and were giving me klonipin 3 mg a day which they just cut out today and like 20 hours later i started feeling horrible and mentally a wreck all over again like when i first relapsed idk wtf to do man should i tell them to stop giving me subs asap hoping 18 days didnt get m addicted and accept the methadone withdrawal? i know for a fact its gonna take me 3 months till im gonna wana do anything off methadone but i feel the mix of the subs and the klonipin is what had me feeling better not just the subs i dont wana have to just switch one habit to another the main issue tho is here they force u to go to these all day group classes which take 8 hours a day and a month off methadone now ay could i do this.... i need t lay in bed tbh and dry out and move about at my pace but they will tell insurance and insurance wont pay im sure id like to know how long it takes one t get fully addicted to subs as im 18 days im at 8 mg a day atm but for half the time it was 2-4 a day .

part of me is telling me to run away from the subs and just tell them to put me on klonipin again and take out the subs and just eventually taper off the klonipin since its withdrawal time wont be as long as methadones and id not be on it any longer than say 6 months im going to see a doctor in the morning about this issue and wanted to get some input first as im very scared atm at what to do whatevers gonna have me feeling better in the shortest amount of time that is somewhat healthy

 

[blackmarket91]

You said that you kicked a 195 mg a Methadone dependency. While that is very impressive and no small feat, you're back where you started, for all intents and purpose.
When the risk of relapse is still very much present, maintainence is a great choice. It obciously takes care of the physical symptoms while the brains frontal cortex repairs itself and you sort out the deep underlying psychological aspects of your addiction. Sure tapering is the "popular" choice without the stigma of maintainence. However, it only deals with the physical dependence. It does nothing to address the psychological component that leads to relapse. You have to be completely honest with yourself, otherwise you'll be back at the start YET AGAIN.
As for Subs vs Methadone, it's all preferance. I liked Methadone better. It held me better and that allowed me to carry on with life, not thinking about "more". Subs always hit me weird for some reason and just made me fell off. However, alot of people prefer Subs and only you can answer which one you should use.

tbh the only reason i did relapse is due to my cousin having it at home me seeing it daily in the fridge is where he keeps his bottles he saves cause doesnt take all his take homes and begging me i didnt do other drugs really sometimes id do pain pills but never daily as iv never ever pay those prices and now that he lost his take-homes now and only has about 2 months left till he himself is gonna go on suboxone himself theirs no way for me to even go get methadone to begin with

not sure if i stated before that methadone was my first drug as a family member gave it to me and id take it at times and eventually got hooked then joined a clinic eventually so i cant just go into a clinic and get methadone if i dont have anything in me

 

[ChinaGroove]

If you're in wd, they should take you. All the ones I went to did but i'm in Fla. It may differ if you're elsewhere.

 

[Phoenix_03]

If you're in wd, they should take you. All the ones I went to did but i'm in Fla. It may differ if you're elsewhere.

I’ve been to ones in FL and CT and whenever you start as a new patient I think they just want to see a dirty urine for opiates. I’m not sure if just being in withdrawals is enough, but I never went clean so

 

[Phoenix_03]

idk man i feel like that was all the strenght i had left this time it isnt the same mentally at least i feel i have more energy this time but fuck my heads a wreck i guess iw as able t do it cause iw anted to be free so bad so i fought through it not knowing exactly how long it would take and now that i relapsed 5.5 months later i know what i must go through all over again that my brain just says no way.... im really fucking scared here

im in a rehab atm and they have had me on subs for past like 18 days i was feeling a lot better and were giving me klonipin 3 mg a day which they just cut out today and like 20 hours later i started feeling horrible and mentally a wreck all over again like when i first relapsed idk wtf to do man should i tell them to stop giving me subs asap hoping 18 days didnt get m addicted and accept the methadone withdrawal? i know for a fact its gonna take me 3 months till im gonna wana do anything off methadone but i feel the mix of the subs and the klonipin is what had me feeling better not just the subs i dont wana have to just switch one habit to another the main issue tho is here they force u to go to these all day group classes which take 8 hours a day and a month off methadone now ay could i do this.... i need t lay in bed tbh and dry out and move about at my pace but they will tell insurance and insurance wont pay im sure id like to know how long it takes one t get fully addicted to subs as im 18 days im at 8 mg a day atm but for half the time it was 2-4 a day .

part of me is telling me to run away from the subs and just tell them to put me on klonipin again and take out the subs and just eventually taper off the klonipin since its withdrawal time wont be as long as methadones and id not be on it any longer than say 6 months im going to see a doctor in the morning about this issue and wanted to get some input first as im very scared atm at what to do whatevers gonna have me feeling better in the shortest amount of time that is somewhat healthy

Maybe methadone being your only drug experience made it much easier to just push through. Everyone experiences some symptoms stronger than others, too, like if it was just the runny nose or lack of energy i could maybe withstand it. The RLS and muscle cramps are what kill me though, you can’t even lie down you just want to crawl out of your skin. I made it through after detox, but it was months before i felt normal. I brilliantly relapsed on heroin 5 years later and even that withdrawal felt unbearable so now i’m back tied to the clinic.
I don’t understand why they would give you klonopin like that then just cut you off. Are they trying to torture you? Im not surprised i guess, some rehabs/detox only give you something to sleep, no benzos. I have never gone the suboxone route and i don’t particularly want to. Everyone is different, so what works for you might not work for me. I know i am in no rush to get off methadone, i function tons better on it and don’t really care about the stigma of longterm maintenance.

 

[ChinaGroove]

Maybe methadone being your only drug experience made it much easier to just push through. Everyone experiences some symptoms stronger than others, too, like if it was just the runny nose or lack of energy i could maybe withstand it. The RLS and muscle cramps are what kill me though, you can’t even lie down you just want to crawl out of your skin. I made it through after detox, but it was months before i felt normal. I brilliantly relapsed on heroin 5 years later and even that withdrawal felt unbearable so now i’m back tied to the clinic.
I don’t understand why they would give you klonopin like that then just cut you off. Are they trying to torture you? Im not surprised i guess, some rehabs/detox only give you something to sleep, no benzos. I have never gone the suboxone route and i don’t particularly want to. Everyone is different, so what works for you might not work for me. I know i am in no rush to get off methadone, i function tons better on it and don’t really care about the stigma of longterm maintenance.

Yeah screw the screw the stigma on maintainence. For me, it helps against relapse. I'm stable. I'm clean except for the methadone (and cigarettes) and I can function like a normal person. Anyone who dosen't get that, it's not their life to live it's mine so they can kick rocks

 

[blackmarket91]

If you're in wd, they should take you. All the ones I went to did but i'm in Fla. It may differ if you're elsewhere.

no im already in a rehab been here since the 12th flew in lol luckly they allow us to have our devices and internet

Yeah screw the screw the stigma on maintainence. For me, it helps against relapse. I'm stable. I'm clean except for the methadone (and cigarettes) and I can function like a normal person. Anyone who dosen't get that, it's not their life to live it's mine so they can kick rocks

i unfortunately cant just function life on methadone after awhile i want more wana get high im all or nothing wth it which is why i originally just cold turkeyed off it

this is how they tried t taper me off the benzos they gave me 3 mg a day for 2 days then 2 mg a day for 2 days then 1 mg a day at bed time for 2 days so a 6 day taper to get completely off 3 mg of klonipin i find that to be way to fast

but tbh i feel im doing a lot of this to myself because before i got to this rehab i was having these weird manic depressive episodes where id freak out crying for like 2 t 3 hours so thats what made me want to hurry an cancel the subs as the subs arnt doing it for me now when i was having the klonipin with them it all seemed to work better but now not sure what to do

i see my doctor tomorrow i might try to just go to klonipin and try to double my dose to help me function mentally better in this situation hard part is doing 8 hours of classes a day and if u dont go insurance wont pay ect kick you out early and is very veryyyy hard t do atm to sit there with everyone else whos feeling great cause their drug use withdrawals last a week max generally

 

[blackmarket91]

Maybe methadone being your only drug experience made it much easier to just push through. Everyone experiences some symptoms stronger than others, too, like if it was just the runny nose or lack of energy i could maybe withstand it. The RLS and muscle cramps are what kill me though, you can’t even lie down you just want to crawl out of your skin. I made it through after detox, but it was months before i felt normal. I brilliantly relapsed on heroin 5 years later and even that withdrawal felt unbearable so now i’m back tied to the clinic.
I don’t understand why they would give you klonopin like that then just cut you off. Are they trying to torture you? Im not surprised i guess, some rehabs/detox only give you something to sleep, no benzos. I have never gone the suboxone route and i don’t particularly want to. Everyone is different, so what works for you might not work for me. I know i am in no rush to get off methadone, i function tons better on it and don’t really care about the stigma of longterm maintenance.

mhm it was months before i felt normal too which is why i wanted to come here for 2 months cause if i could stay 2 months would put me at 2.5 months off it which gets me closer to a better place in life but the week i relapsed in back of my head i was scared saying oh fuck what if i fucked myself... and well i did.. and ever since iv had crazy panic attacks at times emotions are out of wack.

i have over month left here so im gonna try t come off the subs i havent used them over 2 weeks so i shouldnt be to addicted to point where it itself will have me withdrawaling for months and try to maybe get klonipin at higher doses and then try to slowlyyyyyyyyyyyyyy taper down off them over time the mental is destroying me more than the physical and i dont think tbh its the meds but myself i do feel once im a good 2.5 months off methadone again ill feel emotionally a lot better

 

[ChinaGroove]

no im already in a rehab been here since the 12th flew in lol luckly they allow us to have our devices and internet



i unfortunately cant just function life on methadone after awhile i want more wana get high im all or nothing wth it which is why i originally just cold turkeyed off it

this is how they tried t taper me off the benzos they gave me 3 mg a day for 2 days then 2 mg a day for 2 days then 1 mg a day at bed time for 2 days so a 6 day taper to get completely off 3 mg of klonipin i find that to be way to fast

but tbh i feel im doing a lot of this to myself because before i got to this rehab i was having these weird manic depressive episodes where id freak out crying for like 2 t 3 hours so thats what made me want to hurry an cancel the subs as the subs arnt doing it for me now when i was having the klonipin with them it all seemed to work better but now not sure what to do

i see my doctor tomorrow i might try to just go to klonipin and try to double my dose to help me function mentally better in this situation hard part is doing 8 hours of classes a day and if u dont go insurance wont pay ect kick you out early and is very veryyyy hard t do atm to sit there with everyone else whos feeling great cause their drug use withdrawals last a week max generally

True. I kina felt the same way but that was when I first started going to the clinic. I felt hopeless. I feelso much better now tho. I can funtion with no fog, no fatiuge.
If it's not making you feel right tho, then definitely find another way. If you can't function then that eliminates the whole point.

 

[blackmarket91]

True. I kina felt the same way but that was when I first started going to the clinic. I felt hopeless. I feelso much better now tho. I can funtion with no fog, no fatiuge.
If it's not making you feel right tho, then definitely find another way. If you can't function then that eliminates the whole point.

mhm i was a pro athlete before i got hooked on methadone after a few months i became lazy extremely lethargic no energy or will t do things low test so after 5.5. years i came off cold turkey

i thought subs would be the answer but now i know im just trying t find an easy way out and tomorrow talk to doc i have 5 2 mg sub strips left that iv ordered so he may tell me to taper with them or just quit completely and get back on the klonipins klonipin does help me with this mental stress im going through so right now i feel if i cut out the subs now 4 mg taken today that i wont have a bad problem with it given i havent taken it even 3 weeks yet and at lower doses i hope this works and i dont respond horribly to sub withdrawal its weird cause im in meth withdrawal so i wont be able to tell if its sub or meth withdrawals outside of daily vital signs huh

 

[ChinaGroove]

Yeah I feel ya. If you hadn't touched the Subs then the Methadon wd (the acute physical symptoms at least) would be close to being over. The Sub wd shouldn't be too long or drawn out due to only using for three weeks. However, jumping off at 4 mg, you're looking at a rough 3-5 days. I would taper. 4 mg's isn't ALOT per se but that's quite a bit to jump off from.

 

[blackmarket91]

Yeah I feel ya. If you hadn't touched the Subs then the Methadon wd (the acute physical symptoms at least) would be close to being over. The Sub wd shouldn't be too long or drawn out due to only using for three weeks. However, jumping off at 4 mg, you're looking at a rough 3-5 days. I would taper. 4 mg's isn't ALOT per se but that's quite a bit to jump off from.

i have a question also idk if i should just drop my subs yesterday took 4 mg today havent taken any today out of fear if i am indeed in sub withdrawals would it be better for me to just suffer it out now since im in a rehab and try to use as many days as possible or try to taper down for a week or so

i dont see how tapering down from 4 mg t like 1 will really help me that much since they claim sub detox withdrawals last months and wonder if id experience sub paws also lol given havent even taken it 3 weeks

id kiss you if you told me id not have to suffer any longer than 2-3 weeks from subs and could just keeep dealing with my methadone withdrawals

going to finally see th e doc today and ask to be put back on klonipin as it really helps me mentally atm not freak out and in 2-3 months time taper down or fuck come back to another rehab center if possible to properly do it in the most healthy way

 

[ChinaGroove]

If you have only used Subs for 3 weeks, it really shouldn't take months to get through the physical wd. 3 weeks just isn't enough time to have this massive buildup of Bupe in your system.
You may have already stated so if so please forgive me but does the 4mg of Bupe help your Methadone wd at all?

i have a question also idk if i should just drop my subs yesterday took 4 mg today havent taken any today out of fear if i am indeed in sub withdrawals would it be better for me to just suffer it out now since im in a rehab and try to use as many days as possible or try to taper down for a week or so

i dont see how tapering down from 4 mg t like 1 will really help me that much since they claim sub detox withdrawals last months and wonder if id experience sub paws also lol given havent even taken it 3 weeks

id kiss you if you told me id not have to suffer any longer than 2-3 weeks from subs and could just keeep dealing with my methadone withdrawals

going to finally see th e doc today and ask to be put back on klonipin as it really helps me mentally atm not freak out and in 2-3 months time taper down or fuck come back to another rehab center if possible to properly do it in the most healthy way

 

[blackmarket91]

If you have only used Subs for 3 weeks, it really shouldn't take months to get through the physical wd. 3 weeks just isn't enough time to have this massive buildup of Bupe in your system.
You may have already stated so if so please forgive me but does the 4mg of Bupe help your Methadone wd at all?

ok heres what happened they put me on a taper for like 10 days started at 2 mg then like 4 then 6 then 8 then they took me down t 2 for like 3 days then i wanted to continue it cause i felt it was helping but turns out it was the klonipin that truly was helping me and when i asked to be n maintence for like 3 days maybe 4 i was on 8 but yesterday i cut it down to 4 and so far today i havent taken any at all o the most ive taken ever of it was 8 in a day i have 5 2 mg strips left n which i can take however i want not sure yet gonna ask the doc for his best advice i know im for sure coming off it but not sure if i should taper it go to 2 mg like today or tomorrow then skip a day and keep doing 2 mg or 1 mg till the 5 runs out