ColoradoBoy90
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2015
- Messages
- 219
That makes sense, but the only thing I don't get is 4mg of Hydrmorphone is equal to 10mg of Vicodin/hydrocodone.
So if normally only a mere 5mg of Vicodin is enough to get me out of W/D, how can 4mg (roughly equal to 10mg of Vicodin, or double) not?
I know that BA is very low for Hydrmorphone, and what's it's derived from -- but from my understanding
is that conversions already take into account BA when doing a conversion. So with all the conversions out there, medical and non-medical, all seem to agree that 4mg of Hydrmorphone is equal to 10mg of Vicodin, and that's taking into account the low BA of Hydrmorphone and the high BA of hydrocodone.
Same as how medically it's well know that Vicodin/hydrocodone/Norco and Oxycodone/Percecot are both stronger than Morphine, at least in their pills forms. Many "conversions" often use morphine as their base to convert off of.
I know individual body and metabolism factors/genes etc come into play, so do you think if Vicodin works great for one, while Hydrmorphone does not -- is that perhaps a liver issue? Or what would be the primary known reasons for Hydrmorphone not working for someone? Even snorting it, I don't know,it got rid of the W/D but when I think about it not entirely -- I still had the minor cough, and minor chills, which disappeared if I took Vicodin. Which is weird, because if someone is taking let's say, 10mg of oxycodone X3 per day (so 30mg total) and then had no more oxycodone I thought it was pretty well known and common that you can switch over to say Vicodin/hydrocodone at equal dosages no problem? So the person could literally just one day stop taking the oxycodone 30mg per day, and switch over to say 45mg of Hydrocodone no problem without any W/D. I thought quite a few people switch between opiates and opiods no problem, of course taking the equal dosage of the other.
Like myself, I have been on oxycodone before for years and one day just flat out switched to hydrocodone only -- did not experience any W/D or anything. The dosage was increased slightly to make up for the difference of course of oxycodone being slightly stronger than Vicodin on a mg per mg basis. I have even switched again to just Morphine only just
at much higher dosage of Morphine due to it being significantly weaker than Vicodin or oxycodone. And even a couple times I've switched from very low dosages of hydrocodone (7.5 to 15mg per day) to 50mg to 200mg or so of Tramadol per day with no real W/D, for over a 2 weeks. So I figured the same should apply to Hydrmorphone..
I wish I would have tampered down from the Tramadol and been done but nope, one day I slipped up and took one and a half of my normal dosage of oxycodone expecting to feel something especially being more than my normal dosage but nope.... I guess trying to tamper down to Tramadol for a couple weeks didn't do a damn thing for my tolerance. Kinda off topic but could taking Tramadol only for a couple months lower your tolerance to hydro or oxycodone? The only thing I'm not so sure about Tramadol is that it's like an SNRI antidepressant, and antidepressants basically cancel out hydro or oxy for me. I know it's common for antidepressants to do that, but Tramadol is atypical and not a steady one so I dunno... But as far as tolerance, would Tramadol just keep tolerance going due to it still hitting the main mu receptors?
And if Hydrmorphone is poor orally for one, would perhaps oxymorphone be a better option? I know the BA is even lower, but since it's metabolized differently than perhaps it could work better for those who don't respond well to HydroMORPHONE? Also is it true even the FDA doesn't regonize generic oxymorphone to be equal to brand name oxymorphone (Opana)? I know they like to claim all generics and brand are 100% equal and the same yet in the same breath openly admit generics can contain up to + or - 20% fillers, and even the active ingrident can be SLIGHTLY off (like 2-3%, not enough to count as a "therapeutic difference" therefore they can pass it off as 100% active ingrident even if it's only 97% active ingrident for a generic. That's been said in officially, too, but that's a whole another topic I'm getting into)... So back to Opana vs generic oxymorphone. Is the only difference that the Opana isn't crushable and the generics are? Or are the generics actually know to be weaker in potency? Never read too much about Opana so I don't know. I could google search it and get 10 different answers on sites not as, uh, what's a good word.... Let's just say most other websites and forums aren't as intelligent as those here on BL. So I hope someone here on BL has some knowledge on it.
Forgive any crazy spelling errors or even sentences, as my phone is autocorrecting words left and right and I'm not catching them all.
So if normally only a mere 5mg of Vicodin is enough to get me out of W/D, how can 4mg (roughly equal to 10mg of Vicodin, or double) not?
I know that BA is very low for Hydrmorphone, and what's it's derived from -- but from my understanding
is that conversions already take into account BA when doing a conversion. So with all the conversions out there, medical and non-medical, all seem to agree that 4mg of Hydrmorphone is equal to 10mg of Vicodin, and that's taking into account the low BA of Hydrmorphone and the high BA of hydrocodone.
Same as how medically it's well know that Vicodin/hydrocodone/Norco and Oxycodone/Percecot are both stronger than Morphine, at least in their pills forms. Many "conversions" often use morphine as their base to convert off of.
I know individual body and metabolism factors/genes etc come into play, so do you think if Vicodin works great for one, while Hydrmorphone does not -- is that perhaps a liver issue? Or what would be the primary known reasons for Hydrmorphone not working for someone? Even snorting it, I don't know,it got rid of the W/D but when I think about it not entirely -- I still had the minor cough, and minor chills, which disappeared if I took Vicodin. Which is weird, because if someone is taking let's say, 10mg of oxycodone X3 per day (so 30mg total) and then had no more oxycodone I thought it was pretty well known and common that you can switch over to say Vicodin/hydrocodone at equal dosages no problem? So the person could literally just one day stop taking the oxycodone 30mg per day, and switch over to say 45mg of Hydrocodone no problem without any W/D. I thought quite a few people switch between opiates and opiods no problem, of course taking the equal dosage of the other.
Like myself, I have been on oxycodone before for years and one day just flat out switched to hydrocodone only -- did not experience any W/D or anything. The dosage was increased slightly to make up for the difference of course of oxycodone being slightly stronger than Vicodin on a mg per mg basis. I have even switched again to just Morphine only just
at much higher dosage of Morphine due to it being significantly weaker than Vicodin or oxycodone. And even a couple times I've switched from very low dosages of hydrocodone (7.5 to 15mg per day) to 50mg to 200mg or so of Tramadol per day with no real W/D, for over a 2 weeks. So I figured the same should apply to Hydrmorphone..
I wish I would have tampered down from the Tramadol and been done but nope, one day I slipped up and took one and a half of my normal dosage of oxycodone expecting to feel something especially being more than my normal dosage but nope.... I guess trying to tamper down to Tramadol for a couple weeks didn't do a damn thing for my tolerance. Kinda off topic but could taking Tramadol only for a couple months lower your tolerance to hydro or oxycodone? The only thing I'm not so sure about Tramadol is that it's like an SNRI antidepressant, and antidepressants basically cancel out hydro or oxy for me. I know it's common for antidepressants to do that, but Tramadol is atypical and not a steady one so I dunno... But as far as tolerance, would Tramadol just keep tolerance going due to it still hitting the main mu receptors?
And if Hydrmorphone is poor orally for one, would perhaps oxymorphone be a better option? I know the BA is even lower, but since it's metabolized differently than perhaps it could work better for those who don't respond well to HydroMORPHONE? Also is it true even the FDA doesn't regonize generic oxymorphone to be equal to brand name oxymorphone (Opana)? I know they like to claim all generics and brand are 100% equal and the same yet in the same breath openly admit generics can contain up to + or - 20% fillers, and even the active ingrident can be SLIGHTLY off (like 2-3%, not enough to count as a "therapeutic difference" therefore they can pass it off as 100% active ingrident even if it's only 97% active ingrident for a generic. That's been said in officially, too, but that's a whole another topic I'm getting into)... So back to Opana vs generic oxymorphone. Is the only difference that the Opana isn't crushable and the generics are? Or are the generics actually know to be weaker in potency? Never read too much about Opana so I don't know. I could google search it and get 10 different answers on sites not as, uh, what's a good word.... Let's just say most other websites and forums aren't as intelligent as those here on BL. So I hope someone here on BL has some knowledge on it.
Forgive any crazy spelling errors or even sentences, as my phone is autocorrecting words left and right and I'm not catching them all.
