Tackling the big issues, Suicide.

[kazza_baby]

they've given up hope because they either haven't yet found a reason to live, OR they suffer from a mental illness.

if you're going to quote me, quote the whole sentance.
at no point did i say mental illness is the cause for all suicides.

 

[zag0r]

i didn't intend to infer you did - i think i misread what you said however.

 

[LittleBoyLost]

I feel much of what I wanted to say was eloquently covered in MazDan and star*'s posts.

On selfishness though, I just wanted to add: Everyone is responsible for their own feelings and how they deal with them.

Is it selfish for someone to commit suicide?
No, it is their choice to deal with their feelings in this way.

Is it selfish for the family/friends to react by claiming the act itself was selfish?
The feelings of the family and friends are not the responsibility of the suicidee. What they feel and how they deal with the event is entirely up to them, and their own responsibility.

 

[smokeblow]

here is my thread which I think explains what I am going though. I don't know if it is soo relevant to this thread but I would say I have considered many times to end my life.. I am a long time sufferer of depression.

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=192460&r=4

 

[kazza_baby]

is suicide selfish?

after my varied experience with this topic; through personal experiences, experiences of friends, and studying, i remain in two minds.

through suffering from depression myself at one stage, and studies at tafe last year, i saw the medical side of this issue. I.e. what in some cases causes people to commit suicide.
Mental Illness is caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain. Without treatment, this imbalance causes people to act irrationally.
The illness in a way takes control of them, changing their behaviour and thought patterns.
In this sense, suicide cannot be seen as a selfish act, as it was done under the influence of this illness, and not something they would have done if they were in their 'right' mind.

Losing my best friend to suicide, i viewed suicide in a different light.
all i could think about was how fucking selfish she was for doing this to me, not to mention her family.
I couldn't understand how someone with so much going for her would turn around and do this.

I don't believe that everyone who has committed this act suffers from mental illness. Some i think do it in a moment of panic, though once again they are not thinking clearly.

So i'm interested to know your thoughts on the topic, and how you view it.

 

[tathra]

it is very selfish. the person is only thinking of their pain, and how to easily escape it, without thinking about the pain they will cause everyone else after they're gone.

i've lost a friend to suicide, and i still dont know why he did it recently, another friend tried to kill herself (thankfully she didnt succeed).

 

[kazza_baby]

i know.. but it confuses me.
is it still selfish even if they did it while they weren't 'themselves' i.e. didn't know exactly what they were doing?

 

[Vanilla]

killing yourslef kills the people around you more.

 

[tathra]

if its not intentional, then it cant be selfish. just a terrible mistake

 

[RustyBickie]

I think its a horribly selfish thing to do, having said that to bring yourself to suicide, well I haven't suffered depression, but it must be such a horrendous feeling.

 

[silvia saint]

i've lost a friend to suicide, and i still dont know why he did it

you don't know why he did it so why say he was selfish? you don't know what he may have been through or was going through, and i guess now you never will.

of course losing a loved one would be devastating. to those that think it is a selfish act may i suggest you take a look a little closer to home. don't you think it is slightly selfish to expect those suffering to put up with their mental or physical pain so your own life doesn't have to be complicated? you think people who take their own lives don't have the thoughts of loved ones left behind running through their minds at the time? some say suicide is the easy way out, bollocks. to think that, one has obviously never tried it. suicide, and more importantly the contemplation of suicide is anything but painless and easy.

plenty of people take their lives unnecessarily because of poor mental health, which may or may not be related to issues that to them seem untreatable at the time thanks to being stuck in that deep, deep hole. it is quite easy to think straight and to see things in perspective when you're looking from the outside in. however not all ailments are treatable and it is stupid to say that everyone who contemplates and/or commits suicide is mentally ill. plenty of sane people do it all the time. think euthanasia.

this topic has been covered before in aus social i do believe, so to keep it short i'll finish by quoting some lyrics for those who think it's all so selfish...

But before you come to any conclusions
Try walking in my shoes
Try walking in my shoes

You’ll stumble in my footsteps
Keep the same appointments I kept
If you try walking in my shoes
If you try walking in my shoes

 

[endlesseulogy]

Mental Illness is caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain. Without treatment, this imbalance causes people to act irrationally.

Well school is still out on this one. The chemical imbalance theory has never actually been proved. Its just the simplest and more rational answer according to medical science. Myself and a thousand other people would say mental illness, depression and suicide have very spirtual and non-chemical causes. Suicide is a common problem with an easy answer but society always blames the wrong people.

Is suicide selfish? No. Because at the time, the person is so caught up in his/her problems that he/she cant think about other people. People who commit suicide live in an internal world, meaning they only have their minds. Outside influences dont bother them. They dont care because nothing is worth it to them. Modern society needs to come to grips with suicide because its only now starting to become a chronic problems which causes that are still a mystery. In privious times suicide wasnt such a big problem because of lower stress levels, more equality and general good mental heath. As our society "progresses" mental illness increases. If mental illness was a chemical problem this wouldnt be the case. Suicide is a direct reflection of our society and how fucked it is.

I know ive ranted a bit off topic here but i have been suicidal and i found the only way to cure it is to look at it from a spiritualist point of view. Somewhere in me was a yearning for something new in my life.. something to take ME off my mind. People who are suicidal are totally self-involved, but this dosnt mean they are selfish because at the time the concept of selfish dosnt exist.

 

[tathra]

you don't know why he did it so why say he was selfish? you don't know what he may have been through or was going through, and i guess now you never will.

irrelevant. there are no such situations where suicide is the ONLY option, there are always other ways to work through a situation, no matter how difficult or painful. even if you have a chronic illness that will kill you eventually, why end it so soon? why not live the rest of your life to its fullest?

 

[ButrosButros_Grantos]

^^^You're an idiot... For some suicide is the only option and good on them for taking it. If they really believe that there is no good waiting for them in this existence then do it. It's their life. It's actually the reverse here, people who dont allow people to commit suicide are selfish. It's their choice, not ours, out life is ours to do with what we want, even end it.

 

[middle finger]

There's no right answer. I can see both points of the argument. But in my opinion, yes it is selfish.

 

[endlesseulogy]

irrelevant. there are no such situations where suicide is the ONLY option, there are always other ways to work through a situation, no matter how difficult or painful. even if you have a chronic illness that will kill you eventually, why end it so soon? why not live the rest of your life to its fullest?

Why not end it? lol.. i hate it when people dont look at the yin and yang in every situation. Maybe the person genuinely wants to die. Sure , its unfortunate for their loved ones, but then the loved ones are being SELFISH for not letting the other person die Unless you know how it feels to be on the verge of suicide, you have no room to comment. What options do you mean? Medication? Therapy with some fucking nazi-freaudian psychotherapist? Fuck that shit. The only option open to people who are on the brink is to be pushed over the edge. If they really want to save themselves, they will.. But seeking outside help only bandages over the problem. Because this is a problem no amount of psych-drugs can fix. Its a disturbance that continues to boil somewhere in the very centre of their being. Until this disturbance is resolved, it will never go away and will manifest itself in other ways. You are incharge of you.. You can only fix yourself.

 

[Riot Grrrl]

Originally posted by kazza_baby
Mental Illness is caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain.

What i learnt in my psych class at uni was that a mental illness is caused by biological, psychological and environmental factors (either, or all of the above). Yeah, there are conditions such as schizophrenia, bipolar, ADD etc that are passed down genetically, though it's not always the case 100% of the time.

It's like what comes first, the chicken or the egg. Did the chemical imbalance come first or was it other contributing factors such as environment that then caused the chem imbalance.

The way i view it, if you know someone is going through a depressive cycle/period, slap a watcher on their arse, they need observation. You gotta know what signs and symptoms to look for. Once someone with depression starts having suicidal ideation they'll eventually come to a decision, as a result they may think their death is of little consequence.

To answer your last question Kaz, personally speaking, depression is apart of "myself". When i get mild depressed i am still "myself" though with changed patterns of though, I don't see myself as becoming a different person because it's what i've known to be like for the last 8-9 years, though others may view this differently. My close family and friends know i suffer from it, so they notice the changes and keep a close eye on me and offer me support. And yes, IMO i see suicide as selfish

 

[onetwothreefour]

butros: leave insults out of the thread.

OF COURSE IT IS SELFISH. it's one of the most selfish things a person can do.

but does that make it wrong? i don't think so, not a lot of the time. surely it is up to ourselves to make such a decision. i don't think there's much wrong with trying to talk a suicidal person out of it, but if that's honestly their final decision because they just don't think they can deal with the pain of the world anymore, then who are we to stop them?

 

[silvia saint]

even if you have a chronic illness that will kill you eventually, why end it so soon?

um, maybe so one can die with some dignity?

why not live the rest of your life to its fullest?

i suppose. i can see how one could live a full life, stuck in a hospital bed, in constant pain, having machines keep them alive. 8)

 

[silvia saint]

i just don't get the selfish aspect some keep referring to. are we only here for the satisfaction of others? is this an ingrained opinion due to religion, stemming right back to god creating man?