Opioids Switch from methadone, to Dilaudid then Suboxone

[justagirl30]

Hey there,

I foolishly switched from 3 yrs of .5 mg/day Suboxone off St. after yrs of opiate use to taking a Sub break (planning on getting sub out of system so I could use it again to detox off short acting but got roped in) by using 12 oxy 30's or Dilaudid 8 mg's for 8 mos till I couldn't get sub and ended up going to the shitty methadone clinic for my 1st time after avoiding using done for yrs or viewing it as an option. I figured at least the half life is shorter than sub and it was free, etc. thought I'd feel regular opiate high but was only a lazy, weight gaining, sweaty, useless zombie this whole time who felt worse as each day went by. Im to the point where I even got Adderall prescribed to help the done symptoms but that didn't even work.

Methadone makes me feel terrible and I am a completely different person in every single way since starting 6 mos ago. It has made my life worse for the most part. It makes me feel terrible. So I am at 70 mg pretty much, although the last mo Ive been tapering down to 55 mgs day and I usually get away with only taking roughly 2/3 to half a dose. I found a sub Dr. who agreed to write me k-pins, Seroquel and Dilaudid for the next 2 wks to then starting the Suboxone in 2 wks ater just going about 12-24 hrs from my last dose. Dilaudid is short acting so Ill just go to the office that morning instead of dosing with Dillies and start the sub induction and stay at the office until I feel stable. I have switched from every opiate over to sub and back many times but never from methadone. I have a slow metabolism but the done should be out as to where I wont get any precip WD's by then. I'm aware of the best way to do an induction, how to avoid precip WD's & most other facts involving this, .


So, my questions are how do you feel the IV'd 4 mg Dilaudid will cover the done (1-2 4 g D's every 4 hrs, along with 1 MG klonopin 3x day and Seroquel for sleep up to 4x day)? I have 142 D's to last till Wed. the 16th's last dose prior to my 10 AM induction on the 17th. I've checked the conversion chart and it told me I'd need roughly 14 mg of Dilaudid to equal 70 MG done. I have a slow metabolism so the done may take a bit longer to get out but I've been taking less than the 70 MG (eyeballed liquid to try and only take half) for the most part and only been on MMT for 5-6 mos.

I just hope Im covered for the physical WD between now and then. That's all. Ive never come off methadone. Last dose was about 35 MG done yesterday morn. I work M-F 9-5 and need to function properly again. I cant wait to feel the methadone cloud go away. I hate it so much!


Any sincere help, especially from someone who knows someone who switched from done to an opiate and/or then to Suboxone would be appreciated. Or any replies at all that may ease my mind. Thank you!

 

[ksralyv2mch]

Don't know much about methadone to sub switch but I have read of people being on methadone for a lot of months and then 20 something days after their last methadone dose they dosed a sub and got that awesome p. w/ds! You should try loperamide, I've been using it to get off Heroin, it fucking works, it's just all in the p-glycoprotein inhibitor (tagamet/white grapefruit juice), you can save yourself A LOT of money from DRs and expensive medications but just so you know for 10$ you can be withdrawal free for at least 3 days!!!

 

[justagirl30]

Hi there, thanks for the reply. Yes, Ive heard of the loper idea. It ay have worked back when I was on tons of 30's or Dilaudid but after methadone for 5-6 mos Id prob need a shit load. Like, too much to even bother. I also already paid for the scripts and have them. So far its been no WD at all but its only been 3 whopping days w/out done on the D's so we all know the MD isn't even out of my system or close to it yet.

Im just so nervous but whatever I need to deal with to get off the shit methadone, feel "normal" and away from the clinic rules like Im on fucking parole just b/c I chose to go there is worth it. I know it ha helped many people but Id say you would need to be extremely hard up for it to help. Or, if you actually end up on a dose that is right for you (sadly doubtful) it may be best for some. Not for me. EEEEEEEEEEKKKKKK!

How much Loper do you use?

 

[Free]

So, my questions are how do you feel the IV'd 4 mg Dilaudid will cover the done (1-2 4 g D's every 4 hrs, along with 1 MG klonopin 3x day and Seroquel for sleep up to 4x day)? I have 142 D's to last till Wed. the 16th's last dose prior to my 10 AM induction on the 17th. I've checked the conversion chart and it told me I'd need roughly 14 mg of Dilaudid to equal 70 MG done. I have a slow metabolism so the done may take a bit longer to get out but I've been taking less than the 70 MG (eyeballed liquid to try and only take half) for the most part and only been on MMT for 5-6 mos.

Tolerance to dilaudid develops extremely quickly, but you can start low - don't shoot 14mg of dilaudid to begin with even if you have been on 70mg of done, 14mg dilaudid administered intravenously is like begging for two things - 1, an OD, 2, making sure you blow through those dillies faster than you want to, 3. making sure you're miserable when you switch to suboxone because dilaudid is a thousand billion times better at what it does. Dilaudid is in my experience a drug of it's own class (ESPECIALLY when administered parenterally) even though it's just a morphine derivative, you will definitely have enough to get you to next week provided you don't constantly take massive shots to get high instead of taking them to stay out of wd from the done. You have benzos to mix and seroquel for night time, so don't blow through your script of dilaudid trying to get high, is my advice.

Even though you have a serious tolerance, IV dilaudid cuts through most tolerances, lol - except tolerance which develops specifically FROM the use of dilaudid. Also, if you don't make huge shots, you will be able to take them more constantly - 4mg q4 as needed works out to 6 pills / 24mg a day which is the same as my script. The thing is, it's an extremely fast acting opiate, so you will have to play around with it to be comfortable, but you certainly do have enough as long as you don't keep trying to use them the wrong way(to get "high" high" instead of maintaining until sub induction).

 

[justagirl30]

Hi There, I really appreciate your experience. So far, the MD has been done for 7 days. I have till Wed. for my meds to last. Thankfully, it seems they will. I agree the tolerance can build quickly to both k=pins and D's really. I hanvent used any Seroquel b/c the k-pins are enough. Ive always had super anxiety and I never get hooked on those but I was mostly worried b/c despite knowledge of most aspects of methadone, I had never personally switched from that to sub. I waned off the month after I started but couldn't find any Dr.'s to accept people and kept debatin

Only every other opiate b/c other than a 1 day type dealy (where I cld only get MD, I stayed away purposely). Great harm reduction and advice on the dillies. Personally, I had done the 8 MG between my .5 mg sub break (less is more even though when started sub then tolerance was 200 MG OC/day - not OP). I never wanted to go any higher than needed on sub and its pointless.

Unless the WD gets much more intense (haven't felt any thus far), he really gave me the perfect amounts of everything for me personally. He seems like such a great experienced Dr. He actually wrote the scripts to the max as in counting two extra days toward the 2 wks, asking preferences, really listening and considering my individual circumstance, etc. He has even text me every couple days asking how I"m feeling which is cool. Any other Dr. (not too too many have made it as brief and thoughtless as poss prob b/c they're overloaded w/patients - sis is a RN floor Mgr so I understand but c'mon!)

 

[vicapro]

Don't take offense to this but that plan sounds like only an excuse to get high and your not doing yourself a favor whatsoever. If you were serious about using subs to get your life together and focus on recovery you would do what I did (and what most do) which is taper however fast you want to 30mg stay on it for five days and show yourself your desire to actually stop trying to get high, and that at the very least you can deal with full blown wds for the 2 days needed to avoid precipitated wd. I went from 50mg to 30 in 1 month then went inpatient to get on subs and go through treatment and after the first full day off i started getting wds which the doctor gave me valium and clonidine for which surprisingly made it completely bearable. The dr then told me that I could dose 2mg sub that night and I had no precip wd and all my wd subsided. Instead you first of all chose to use the best and probably only opiate that will hit you like a good shot of dope with just a heroin habit, even with 70mg methadone tolerance. Not to mention the dr is so ridiculously ignorant by allowing this that I find it hard to even believe you are being truthful. I mean Comon does he really think an opiate addict would use dilauded any other way than iv? Ms contin or very rarely oxycontin are the only two that I've heard being used that way but imo clonidine and a benzo are all thats needed to alleviate the couple days of wd while not giving the addict the feeling of the rush they live for right by before induction to a maintenance drug to try and do the opposite

 

[justagirl30]

I sincerely appreciate your discouraging, bitter, jealous and uninformed (in every possible extent) reply, your experience and opinions which you're entitled to. Your reply wasn't anything helpful for me which was my goal, other than havng this info here for any of the many in my situation. However, at least you met 1 criteria of CLAIMING to switch to sub from MD. All it really takes is time to be sick/be as comfy as possible which is the reason we all get so roped in. The BEST most helpful ingredient of TRULY wanting off as to where you despise being on anything another day is what works best. It's clutch. The mind is such a powerful thing (and sometimes can be your worst enemy when trying to quit if not ready).

Respectfully, I strongly feel you had no need to criticize my/Dr's choice of treatment w/the few options I have and am highly offended that you went as far as to say Im pretty much making the sub dr. and my treatment plan up. ARE YOU A Dr.? IDK anyone who would choose to start a post like this only to be dishonest for no reason for replies from strangers. I did so for positive reasons. Every aspect of your reply was negative. What kind of douche would spend so much time posting a fake story to get replies to ease worry of a fake situation?!

Since all I find is negative MD switch stories, I hoped this may help people in the future. I don't feel you read my long ass original post or the following ones as they indicate me taking minimum effective doses, etc. Anyone with that outlook doesn't qualify for your feedback. Its common sense (no offense). If you did, you would see that almost everything you posted back and suggest seems to contradict my personal story and how I am.

If I wanted to switch from a strong ass full opiate MD and getting high was my goal, I'd just get pills off the st. vs through a Dr. who doesn't take ins/costs a lot, have anyone giving me tox screens, having Dr.'s appts w/no time to go. Losing $ from missing work, etc. It just doesn't make sense. I could've just bought the sub off the st like did for 3 yrs. Just like my poor choice of the MMT clinic, I chose to go to an addicton specialist w/27 yrs experience, who is the only Dr. in my area w/all related certifications which most Dr.'s don't bother getting. Specializes in substance abuse, being a Pdoc and MD, etc. he is the ONLY 1 and Im thankful he was even accepting patients. I coulda easily done induction at home on days off which woulda been best but chose to do it legally and be monitored.

Your ignorance is what got you to where you are! Guess you've a super high metabolism/liver disease or hep c (I dont). That would be only thing to enable you to switch from MD to sub w/out precipitated WD after no MD for ONLY 2 days (no Dr recommends, its more being a 26 on the COWS sheet vs a set time), especially since ultimately even though you went to 30 mgs of MD, you were still switching from the dose you took the longest as it was built up - only advantage is that you have an extremely slow reduction for half life purposes. I think your being untruthful. Plus, you still had to do inpatient, so I guess that Dr didn't help very much huh?

Im unsure if your goal was to get off completely or maintain w/sub (whether MD, Dilaudid, heroin or Sub, its all opiates so yeah) but I sure am happy you feel you chose the best route for you personally! I cant go in to a detox enter since I have daily responsibilities and am independent. Either which way, we are all taking opiates anyways so I prefer to not make it any more painful than it needs to be (u know, the entire reason ppl struggle quitting - the withdrawal?). However, as stated in OP, I am willing to go through ain b/c getting of MD is a must. Sure, some people who didn't ultimately want to get on sub could get caught up in using again. Even if they did, they are prob best doing that then quitting WD wise. Even at the .5 mg sub I took for 3 years a while ago would've been a long drawn out WD for months just like MD. Only less severe b/c of low dose and the sub itself.

Id be curious to hear if you ever were in MMT, how much sub you are on now, etc. if you're interested in giving some info that may be helpful to me. Also, if you've never been on MMT, that would explain the sheer ignorance displayed within your post. Honestly, it seems like you're just bitter that you didn't have a Dr. or connections to do it the way I am. I trust my Dr.'s experience of getting folks from as high up as 150 g and 14 years use on to sub and myself being able to tae my med's appropriately which is why I have extra. Your post was negative for no reason and your thoughts on my situation make no sense w/what Ive shared. To each there own. Sorry you didn't have the $ or the Dr. available who offers treatment this way.

Oh yeah BTW, codeine is ridiculously weak, MS contin is extended release and 1 notch above Codeine, Oxycodone would have worked but is longer actng than D's and I would have needed a much higher pill count wise prescription. So, really, neither of those would cover the receptors enough as an option in between since the MD is so strong. Also, clonidine does help to an extent but the Dr. said I had to choose between that and my k-pins which I need for anxiety and sleep so they shouldn't be taken together and it wasn't a choice for me. Also, neither is going in patient as I have 60 hr wks excluding making dinner every night and all other home activities as I support myself, those activities aren't optional. Chances are b/c of your method you got precipitated WD. Sorry about that.

Anyways, Im sincerely glad you found something that worked for you personally! To each their own

As for my progress, Im on day 11 w/out MD and luckily the D's have been effective, so no WD (oh yeah for the ignorant ppl aka vicapro, D's are the most short acting so that is another reason they are best for a sub switch from MD). The MD cloud is gone, I can function normal again and have no anxiety, as of today so that's great! I just want to feel "normal"!!! I'm so happy I can

 

[The Doc.]

Hey dont worry he is just unimformed its better to switch to a shorter acting opiate I think that's a pretty good idea myself.
Not many doctors are nice enough and know enough to prescribe a short acting opiate for the transition so maybe that poster was jealous your doctor is doing it right. I don't know if I could even bring myself to eat a diladid either I would at least snort it before eating it with the low oral b/a.

Its so much easier when on a short acting med to make the switch you only have to wait 6-12 hours to take the sub or however long it takes for you to get sick.

 

[justagirl30]

Hi there, Yeah absolutely! It is so weird how D's are sooo strong but the B/A is what 30% swallowed, 54% snorted and 100% IV. I mean what a difference between the rest! Even my former beloved Oxycodone and the real Oxycontin before was OP and pretty much every other opiate pill out there has higher B/A when swallowed except IV'ing so it is super strange. One of the best whether recreationally or for switching from MD anyways. IMHO.

Well thanks for the reply. I know so many are scared switching from MD to Sub so I just hope this helps me and someone else out there. Just to have the cloud gone that I hated from MD is great in itself! I couldn't believe how unlike myself I was while on it! CRAZYYYY

Since I avoided MD I never have had to switch and since Im high anxiety I just worry a lot. Well Th is almost here and I still have kept myself tame (yes I do have to talk myself out f doing extra lol but was waiting for this wk incase I'd get worse & really need extra. But, Now its Mon 3 days to go so Its safe to say I can go for it and have my last hoorah - safe than sorry) by having extra meds and some unopened since didn't need so Im just so happy this Dr actually knew what he was doing. Im used to Dr.'s not caring or putting much thought in so Im super shocked and happy w/him.

 

[The Doc.]

Yea try not to lose this doctor he sounds awesome decent smart and caring towards his patients that's the way to he its good he even checks up on you to see how your doing I've never heard of that before most docs will tell you to suffer for 4 days or so after getting to 30mgs of methadone then go to sub but many find that too hard cause your in this state of limbo like your in between withdrawal but not too bad then it starts getting really rough the last day or 2 but with diladid ypi only have to wait 12hours or even less for some people like me who only have to wait 6 hours to avoid precipitated withdrawal.

 

[justagirl30]

Yes Im gonna hang on to him for dear life lol. I haven't had many interactions with Dr.'s but the ones I have had been way diff than him. Ive heard online and/or diff country do heroin maintenance instead of methadone mainly b/c of the half ife. I wish that was an option here.

Of course here I am day 12 w/out done. I expect Ill go into WD during the induction but even if I was in full WD for the entire 6 hrs which I know wont happen, itll be worth it to switch over.


What is your situation? Are yu on MD, sub or other opiates?


I cant believe out of the roughly 250 people who viewed this thread only a few he replied! C'mon people! post! Most on MMT dream about getting off by switching to short acting but are too scared of relapses, etc. which is total understandable. I'm just interested in peoples experiences about whether they found a Dr. like mine, did on own w/St. drugs, tapered, etc.

My next issue will be do I take sub short term since I haven't been hooked on it for roughly 1.5 yrs? Had I known yrs ago, I could take sub for a wk and been over the physical WD's (even though mental is tough and persists regardless), I would have done tht but I thought it wasnt an option so I ws on it for 3 yrs. In fact rtyigti if I should just maintain and try to taper from whatever dose I stabilize at this time over 10 day to be wor what. Back if knew d stot det t

 

[lithium00]

take dilaudid for 5 days then wait 24 hours of taking nothing and start taknig bupe

 

[justagirl30]

Yes Im gonna hang on to him for dear life lol. I haven't had many interactions with Dr.'s but the ones I have had been way diff than him. Ive heard online and/or diff country do heroin maintenance instead of methadone mainly b/c of the half ife. I wish that was an option here.

Of course here I am day 12 w/out done. I expect Ill go into WD during the induction but even if I was in full WD for the entire 6 hrs which I know wont happen, itll be worth it to switch over.

What is your situation? Are you on MD, sub or other opiates, how long/much? Happily or wanting to quit?

I cant believe out of the roughly 250 people who viewed this thread only a few he replied! C'mon people! post! Most on MMT dream about getting off by switching to short acting but are too scared of relapses, etc. which is total understandable. I'm just interested in peoples experiences about whether they found a Dr. like mine, did on own w/St. drugs, tapered, etc.

Next (aside from in office WD Th.), I need to figure out If should do sub short term/taper quick (since haven't done in 1.5 yrs I cld just stabilize, decrease dramatically the 1st 3 days then slow sub taper for roughly 7- 14 days and finally be off of everything! Or, still quick but longer taper starting same, extremely slowl taper and/or just maintain? If when started sub yrs ago, I had known taking it when you aren't hooked already on sub for 3-30 days, I coulda been over the physical WD's (even though mental is toughest/persists), I'd have done that! Instead, I ended up on .5 MG for 3 yrs. That's why now I research anything Im prescribed or considering taking , to an extreme extent. If I just maintain and/or taper from whatever dose I stabilize on? Hmmmm...Please excuse the length this is all just so important to me and the formatting/spelling as Im just tryng to post quick and get back to work LOL

 

[justagirl30]

thank for your advice, Im rolling w/Dr's plan I described in GREAT detail already LOL. Im on day 12 of no MD and dillies/ k-pins covering my MD tolerance fine. At least now I can feel WD just upon waking so that's a good sign its exiting! My metabolism is sooo slow and BMI terrible after done weight gain so Ive been super nervouse about it taking extra long to go outta my system. Ive heard the majority of severe physical WD from short term use of methadone is over varying from BMI, dose, length of taking, etc. from 5-14 days, the doc went w/14 to make as pain free as poss. So Th Im going in office for induction. I guess Im worried not about precip WD but how hardcore the reg WD will be just from sub pushing the opiate off receptors, even tho I kno itll be replaced relatively quick anyways so I wont have much discomfort. At 1st I was worried the D's may not cover all MD WD when 1st posted.

So you switched from MD over to sub? How long/much did you take? Doing it the way you mentioned, how long was the WD after you popped the sub? Like when it cleared the other opiates off your receptors and then replaced w/sub. Did it take you an hr of severe or mild WD that mostly was gone within 30 min-hr or hr and a half? or not feel WD at all since your opiate levels on the receptors were low enough?

When I switched back & forth from sub to opiates mad times Id just wake up and be in "regular mild" WD, fine in 30 min and not even get slightly moderate WD at all; and then get my energy to get off my ass by 1-1.5 hrs. Done 100's of times. Just wonder b/c of the methadone.

 

[justagirl30]

Well the deed is done for anyone who gives a rats ass lol ! It went as well as it possibly ever could!

When I was on .5 sub for 3 yrs switch backs from a few day sub break wouldn't feel any WD's at all, more often than not. Sometimes for the 1st hr. Ive had so many terrible WD's in past when just on regular opiates. I believe then that was only b/c my body was hooked on sub for so long precip WD wasn't poss. Plus we're talkin after 7 mos of .5 sub Id get pills for 3 days (1 weak valium & 1 shitty MS Contin 60 mg would fuck me up. I took it at night after dosing sub in morn and then go another 8 mos till next time.

My WD from methadone and switch to sub was a 1 outta 10. I was shocked!! I feel almost 100%. MINOR muscle aches that cld be beat by advil or easily ignored, a few sneezes the next day. These are the least WD symptoms Ive EVER had! Even before the appt I wasn't bad AT ALL and had been 14 hrs! He started me slowly 1, mg wait 15 min, 2 mg, then 4 mg. Said to only take 8 MG that day. For the 1st time in life, I just didn't feel better or worse. It was the strangest thing! RX'd 12 mg/day after. I took 3 mgs this morn and feel fine.

I may do a quick taper and only use sub long enough to cover WD but not to get hooked again seeing as all it does is eliminate WD anyways for me personally.

Most are scared shitless of WD pain which keeps us on DOC. IF you hate the MMT and it has negative effects, you can LEAVE. DONT BE AFRAID! Yes, ev1 is different, except humans do anything possible to avoid pain at any cost were programmed that way. es my dose wasn't too high and I was MMT for 6 mos but no matter how long you've gone and it wont matter

I have a long Rd still. but glad fond the right Dr and my experience was waaay waaaay easy which Im beyond grateful for! I cant believe for the 1st time ever there was literally barely any WD to the point where I couldn't even tell him if I felt well or not. You know when your WD goes away, that's for sure! So, it was crazy but lucky I guess. was prepped for worst.

Mainly I just hope this post helps even one person. We get in this situation and are just cared SHITLESS. You CAN do it painlessly if done the right way for you.

BTW - Sorry for the posts sized of Texas, I just dont tell anyone about my prob so I have no one to talk to about it. Anyone going through anything Id love to hear your experience. So its day 5 with 3 mgs today.

 

[ryanwileyusa]

Hey justagirl!
Hopefully you get this. I am in 110mg methadone and I want off. I found a dr give me 8mg Dilaudid he want me to switch to it for one month before going on suboxone. I'm just worried the diilaudid wasn't cover my withdrawal! He gave me 126pills for 21 days that's 6 a day. How often did you take your diilaudid and what roa? Btw yours is the only post on Google that I could find of someone that is doing what I am about to do so THANK YOU SO MUCH!

 

[ryanwileyusa]

Hey