Heroin Suboxone with 100% concurrent herion use, now what?!

[Hesher]

Long time lurker on here, over 10 years, new poster
i will make this as simple to understand as possisble and remove all the useless facts.

1. I've been using Heroin off and on for over 15 years

2. After about 1 year clean I used heroin for 3.5 month, about 0.5 to 1.0 grams a day of good ECP

3. I wanted to stop, I decide to get on suboxone, when I inducted I put myself into Horriable precipitated withdrawal. I used 2 grams total and was able to feel normal.

4. That was 3 months ago.

5. I have been taking 2 to 6 mg of Subs a day since. On top of that I have been using 1 to 3 grams a day (I have no problems with money or getting it, I want to get clean for my own reasons thar aren't relavent).

6. I take the subs in the morning, usually 2mg at wake up(9am) and another 2 at noon. While the wake up suboxone is desolving I shoot my H. I shoot 3 to 5 more times till about 5pm. I never use after 5.

7. I do this because 3 times in the first two weeks I didn't get that well on Sub alone, sweating, no sleep, pains etc...

8. I get a small rush only if the shot is .4 or more, otherwise nothing from the Heroin other than Habbit of the needle, and I do feel normal, like the sub is suposte to do. Sometimes, only of I did a very lot, like 3grams and took only 2mg by mistake (I take the sub because I don't want to be nodding out, I want to be clean, I am very addicted) I will nod out late in the evening.

ok thoes are the facts. I have a serious habit, I hate it. I am looking for suggestions on how to now transfer to only suboxone, like tomorrow take 8mg at wake up? If I can feel normal I won't use H. Every few days I try and go without the H but can't make it past noon because of minor withdrawl and easy access to the H. Maybe take more sub today with the H? Like keep taking 2mg, or 1mg every hour and then no H tomorrow?
i am desperate for help with this. Cold turkey, detox, and methadone are not an option due to my work. I want to end this cycle as painlessly as possisble, I am open to all suggestions.

when I was 18 I would have said this is awesome, enough money to live and shoot H! I am done with H, I hate it but am a slave to it, I want it out of my life for good. So far today I took a total of 10mg of Subs and only did 1g H and didn't get any more, my last shot was at 1:30 PM. I feel fine, I am just worries about tomorrow, I will try only sub again, but in the mean time who really like some feedback and suggestions on how to induct on the sub, or am I inducted?

I never post because I can always find my answers, I couldn't find anything similar on bluelight or anywhere else, so please help.

thank you,
Hesher

 

[tacodude]

Just keep reducing the dope slowly if you do need to use in a weening attempt. Weigh it the dope if you can, which I know is a joke with varying potency, but just make sure you always do less and less never more or else you need to acknowledge that you are doing wrong with your relapse.

The trick is not to get down on yourself as it will just make things worse. The habits not good or bad but it is what it is and you do not want it. Just remember that and keep working on that.

Subs I don't know much about, but I know it's supposed to compete for the receptor with dope, which makes me wonder how you don't get sick or even have side effects from combining them. I know they are a god send to some to get off.

My opinion though self control is key and really with that one can have a very easy withdrawal weening off week heroin gently lowering the dose every few days or so until it's down to an average dose vs. tolerant dose. There will always be a withdrawal though. Finding community support to help you keep on track be it family, friends, therapy, support groups, etc. Whatever keeps you from doing dope where you don't have to hide or be ashamed of having a history of heroin use. My biggest issue is dealing with people who always feel they have to check if I'm high because I have a history of use. The only reason it sind be brought up is if it is obvious to the point something should be said as it should be obvious to myself. As long as your functional and making progress towards cleaning up you are doing good.


Feel free to send me pm if you want to keep in touch for support. I'm actually using again and in a love hate relation where I love it, but hate that I've used for so long even though my dose is low I've been on and off repeatedly. Being a young chronic pain patient suck. Plus the local dope if a ripoff and garbage probably 10-20% at best giving 10-20 mg every 100 mg probably closer to 5% on the regular as using 250 mg seems to be the standard single bag size here. One of my half gs was two quarters wrapped in another bag as if each bag was a shot.... Anyways getting off topic. I wish you the best brother and I'm here as many are.

 

[Hesher]

Thanks for the responce, but I'd like to know what to do regarding the Sub. So far today, I've taken only sub and haven't left bed yet, it's been 30 minutes.

 

[dyna mohum]

my son does subs and that's what i wanting to find information on, too. i dont know that he ever did herion...? he did oxycontins, and or oxycodones....but seems to like the subs; acts like he has to have them. he's also on probation and says the drug tests don't test for subs- is that correct? now it's like he's hooked on the subs. can subs be used intavenously? i think he's snorted them before, or maybe that was something else. they're not skin-popped are they? gawd i've never heard of anyone skin-popping anything in the real world, not my world anyway...that seems like it would fuck u up no matter what. ugh. i know he's had the sublinguals too.

 

[Erikmen]

Thanks for the responce, but I'd like to know what to do regarding the Sub. So far today, I've taken only sub and haven't left bed yet, it's been 30 minutes.

Have you considered going to a rehabilitation clinic. Those that take you in for 3-6 months?
I know that you have your work so do I but your life is by far more important and it seems to me you are risking having an OD.

I used to take Fentanyl and high quality heroin plus breakthrough pain killers for 13 years. I was posted abroad and could never put my job in jeopardize. Long story short, I OD obviously and by purpose I suppose.
Was in a coma for 2 days, when I woke up, couldn't speak or hear at all, breathing was difficult and I was sent to rehab.

This was 7 years ago. I was reallocated and with a private doctor managed to stay on methadone, started w 150 mg !!

And still got sick, made my way down to 80 mg, and as from past January have decreased to zero.
10 mg SOS, now 2,5 mg but managed to stay off for 6 days and on my way to zero once more.

If it wasn't for the intervention I would most certainly be dead by now.

Think about your life and how unbearable this is now.
Weigh the risks you are facing daily and make a decision.

You WILL be back to work don't question that.
But would you make through an OD, you may survive but become incapacitated.(?)

Make up your mind! It's your life.

 

[d-nihl]

...If it wasn't for the intervention I would most certainly be dead by now.

Think about your life and how unbearable this is now.
Weigh the risks you are facing daily and make a decision.

You WILL be back to work don't question that.
But would you make through an OD, you may survive but become incapacitated.(?)

Make up your mind! It's your life.

Great advice Erikmen,

as for dyna mohum, Maybe your son is addicted to oxy/hydro/heroin, and thus needs the suboxone, or is just simply addicted to suboxone, which is not a good thing either. with low opiate tolerance subs can be used to get high. you should have a very serious talk with him. I wish my parents were harder on me, my life is a daily struggle right now.

 

[Hesher]

Yes I have considered it. I have been many times before, and maintained sobriety with AA for many years. I have the suboxone treatment, I would like to do that, and I am being supervised by a doctor who knows everything, I keep telling him I will stop and only do the sub tomorrow, because that's what I believe, I am a very sick addict. I ended up buying 1 gram today but only used .6, I plan on using the other .4 tomorrow ontop of sub, then noting after that, if this taper onto sub doesn't work, I will got to the ER and get further help. If it does work, I will goto an AA meeting. Also I took 10mg sub yesterday, 12 today, and plan on 16 tomorrow ect...
i pray this works, and am ready to do anything to stay clean. I disnf sleep last night, and I will deal with the discomfort. As that's all it is, it's not fill blow WD, only minor; being at work is the hard part. Thank you for your story and advice man!

 

[d-nihl]

that sounds like a good plan. make sure to follow thru.

 

[dyna mohum]

thanks for the info yall. my son says he needs the subs just to be "normal", so that he doesn't experience withdrawal; i've read that the withdrawal from suboxone is far worse--a much longer period of time-- than heroin. i've seen him pretty sick before. i had a period in my life where i was hooked on hydros, xanax, and somas- that was my "cocktail" that i did several times daily. when my dr got busted- i did without for a week and was sick as a dog, but it finally subsided. since then i've gone the other way....to speed, which is something i've always liked for as long as i can remember. im a daily user, but i keep my shit together, and i eat and make sure i get plenty of sleep. i never overdo it cos i've been there also- IV user years ago--never again. i've had to quit for days here and there, and never have a problem, cept for the craving of course- so i figure i'm alright. my motto & creed i live by, and i believe is true- is that everything must be done in MODERATION--that's the key--but how many people do we all know who can actually abide by that?? not many. it's balls to wall for most folks--the sleep deprivation is the worst- that's when people really lose it, and i hate that shit. there actually ARE some responsible users, just as responsible drinkers- just few and far between.

 

[dyna mohum]

oh, and i've had the talk with my son about getting real help---he says he wants to stop, but that he's "just not ready right now" and told me himself, "if you know you're not ready...then nothing will work"- which is true--so why the hell isn't he ready?? makes no sense to me because he says he gets no high from it- it's just to keep him from getting sick. so why keep being a slave to that shit??? i don't get it

 

[Erikmen]

True, you need to really want it. Suggest you keep the conversation channel as opened as possible..IMO
Good luck

 

[trip407]

I had a short timespan where i used 1 mg Buprenorphine in the morning and made a shot of dope in the evening. It worked surprisingly well, its only when i use too much dope i feel bad in the morning from the subs. I would just increase the sub short term and stop the dope. Its not like you will go in withdrawal, you will just miss that lovely dope high.
Sounds easy, but can be pretty hard, if you are in that loop for a longer time like you said.

 

[Erikmen]

I thought subs "induced" withdraw. In some posts I hear about this combination, but when one is prescribed to use, it's often said to take it after 24 hours. Does any type of subs contain Naloxone?

 

[Diesel973]

I thought subs "induced" withdraw. In some posts I hear about this combination, but when one is prescribed to use, it's often said to take it after 24 hours. Does any type of subs contain Naloxone?

A lot of people are confused/misinformed on suboxone. Subs won't always induce withdrawal, it depends on how heavy of an opiate user you are. If you've been using multiple times a day for a good while and you take suboxone too soon, it will induce withdrawal. This is because buprenorphine has a higher affinity than oxy/heroin (it's not the naloxone that causes precipritated withdrawals). That means it will 'win' any competition for receptors in your brain. So if the receptors in your brain currently have opiates bound to them, the suboxone will knock the opiates off the receptors, putting you in horrible withdrawal. I've done it before, it's awful. Your options then are either to wait a couple hours and take more suboxone, and you'll eventually feel less horrible or you can do more opiates, but it'll take more than usual and you're not going to get high but it will balance you out a bit. You have to be careful though because while you're not getting the pleasant effects, you will get side-effects such as a lowered respiratory system.

To avoid inducing horrible withdrawal, you want to wait until all or most of your brain's opiate receptors are clear. You'll feel pretty crappy at this point but no where near as bad as if you took the sub too early. It's best to start with a small dose and take more every couple of hours. This reduces the chance of precipritated withdrawals.

However, I know people who take 1-2mg of suboxone a day, and every here and there will use opiates for a couple of days. In those cases, the chances of any negative effects from following up opiate use with suboxone are very slim.

Regarding the naloxone, I'm not 100% sure about this, but I'm pretty sure it was added to prevent intravenous use of suboxone. I've never injected anything but I believe if you try to inject suboxone, the naloxone prevents it from having pleasurable effects. Again, I'm not positive.

 

[damonoxide]

Nah, it works fine IV. The naloxone is there to make doctors feel better about prescribing Suboxone. The naloxone is practically useless. That said, shooting sub isn't recreational unless you don't do opiates.

 

[Diesel973]

oh, and i've had the talk with my son about getting real help---he says he wants to stop, but that he's "just not ready right now" and told me himself, "if you know you're not ready...then nothing will work"- which is true--so why the hell isn't he ready?? makes no sense to me because he says he gets no high from it- it's just to keep him from getting sick. so why keep being a slave to that shit??? i don't get it

What your son is telling you is most likely true, that he gets no high from the suboxone, but it's very difficult to quit. There are a few things you might want to keep in mind. One thing is called post-acute withdrawal symptoms (often abbreviated PAWS). This takes place even after a person has weened their self off of suboxone completely. You experience tiredness, some depression, a general lack of excitement, depending on the person it can be a rather gloomy period of time and can last from weeks to months. Also, suboxone, in a correct dose, really helps to prevent opiate cravings. From personal experience, I used to get suboxone from friends and I would take 1-2mg a day and I felt okay, but I still had cravings and would occasionally give in to them and get high. When I went to a doctor, I was prescribed a higher dose which I didn't think I needed. I was actually afraid it would be harder to eventually get off the suboxone if I were taking too much. However, the higher dose almost totally wiped out my cravings for opiates and kept me free of depression/anxiety and other negative effects one gets after stopping opiate use.

The suboxone will allow your son to function normally and be free of opiate cravings, lowering the chances of relapsing. He can use that time to get proper counselling and get back to a normal life. To successfully kick an opiate habit, it takes time.

Oh also, suboxone (at a high enough dose) will block other opiates from having an effect. So if a person does use, they won't get the 'high' feeling. Again, from personal experience, when taking 1-2mg of suboxone, I could still use opiates later in the day and get high. When I was taking 8-10mg a day, I couldn't get high. And I didn't want to, the suboxone killed the cravings, and while it didn't get me high per se, I felt good to the point I didn't want to get high. You just have to be careful, as I mentioned in another reply in this thread, while a person may not get high while on suboxone, the side effects of opiates still occur. People have been known to use larger amounts of oxy/heroin to try and get high over the suboxone and overdosed due to the way the opiates repress your respiratory system.

 

[DonStatus]

If I could advise, I would recommend that you stop taking the subs all together. Work on reducing your dope intake and when you feel ready to stop shooting dope, then start the subs again. I think doing both is going to fuck your tolerance up and make both less effective. Take subs when your ready to clean up.

 

[tacodude]

oh, and i've had the talk with my son about getting real help---he says he wants to stop, but that he's "just not ready right now" and told me himself, "if you know you're not ready...then nothing will work"- which is true--so why the hell isn't he ready?? makes no sense to me because he says he gets no high from it- it's just to keep him from getting sick. so why keep being a slave to that shit??? i don't get it

There may be a serious underlying issue (maybe not unique or major) that pushes him to use most likely related to pain. Does he use the bupe only formula or the bupe+nal combo as bupe itself is supposed to be an opiate that binds to a unique area common ones don't that Ruther doesn't lose effect or build a dependany or something making it a great choice for pain relief. Taking the naltrexone (I think and not only nalaxone) orally is supposed to reduce a build-up is dependany, tolerance, or something to do with less severe withdrawals.

Your son needs you through this.... Just ask what you can do to help him. Of course never do anything you are uncomfortable with unless it means harm to him that will affect him long term.

 

[Hesher]

I've stoped the H, and only done Sub today, I don't feel as good as with the H, and have minor WD like hot and cold flashes, slight aches, but I'm gonna make it, hopefully tomorrow will be better, but even if not, I'm sticking to my plan.

 

[siq]

5. I have been taking 2 to 6 mg of Subs a day since. On top of that I have been using 1 to 3 grams a day (I have no problems with money or getting it, I want to get clean for my own reasons thar aren't relavent).

6. I take the subs in the morning, usually 2mg at wake up(9am) and another 2 at noon. While the wake up suboxone is desolving I shoot my H. I shoot 3 to 5 more times till about 5pm. I never use after 5.

You're using Subs and H at the same time?? What the fuck are u talking about?
You're either not using enough Suboxone, or you're wasting a shitload of heroin...