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Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ & Megathread v3; 2010 - 2022

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Thekid331

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Joined
Apr 13, 2010
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5
What: Suboxone = buprenorphine/naloxone. Bupe is a partial agonist(mu) and antagonist(kappa). Bupe has higher mu affinity that most opiates, including some antagonists(naloxone, naltrexone). Its higher affinity allows you to shoot suboxone tablets. It also may cause precipitated withdrawals if you are dependant on other opiates. Also, its higher affinity blocks the affects of other opiates when taken in conjunction with bupe.

Dose: Depends on tolerance. 1-2mgs is a typical recreational dose for someone with no tolerance. If you're using bupe to taper off of another opiate, you should dose once you're experiencing wd's(typically 36-48 hrs. for most opiates). Start with 2-4mgs and dose at 2mg increments every 30-45minutes until a dose holds you. Most people take their full dose once a day.

Withdrawal: Typical physical and psychological symptoms associated with opiate withdrawal. Insomnia, chills, diarrhea, depression, anxiety, lacrimation, sweating, increased heart rate, etc. They are not as strong as a full agonist's symptoms, but may last longer. Physical symptoms last 1-2 weeks on average and psychological symptoms may last months.

As most opiates, it's recommended to taper down to the lowest dose possible before stopping. <1mg is ideal. The best way to dose at that level is to crush up a tablet and divide the powder into lower doses.

Ceiling: 24-32mgs

Bioavailability:
jasoncrest said:
Buprenorphine bioavailabilities:

intraduodenal: 9.7%

intrahepatoportal: 49%

intramuscular: 68%

"The observed mean intramuscular bioavailability was 68%"
"Studies of buprenorphine bioavailability have also examined the intramuscular (bioavailability, 50%–100%)"


intranasal: 50%
"Studies of buprenorphine bioavailability have also examined the [...] intranasal (bioavailability, 48%)
"The bioavailability of buprenorphine, HCl (BPP) in sheep after nasal administration of two formulations has been studied. 0.9 mg BPP in 150 microl was administered nasally and compared to 0.6 mg i.v. The test solutions were formulated with 30% polyethylene glycol 300 (PEG 300) and 5% dextrose, respectively. The bioavailability for PEG 300 was 70% (S.D.+/-27%, n=6), whereas the bioavailability for 5% dextrose was 89% (S.D.+/-23%, n=6)."
"Mean intranasal bioavailability was 48.2 +/- 8.35% (mean +/- s.e.m.) of the intravenous value"


intrarectal: 54%
"bioavailability of the drug was found to be: [... ]intrarectal (54%)..."
"Relative to the 100% bioavailability from the intraarterial route the mean bioavailabilities were [...] intrarectal, 54%..."


intravenous: 98%-100%

oral: 10%

"the oral bioavailability for buprenorphine is state to be 10%"
"due to extensive first-pass metabolism, buprenorphine has very poor oral bioavailability (10% of the intravenous route) if swallowed"


sublingual: ~30%
"Buprenorphine is well absorbed sublingually, with 60% to 70% of the bioavailability of intravenous doses"
"Study results indicate that bioavailability of sublingual buprenorphine is approximately 30%"
"Literature on bioavailability of sublingual buprenorphine presents variable numbers ranging from. 19–58% of the administered dose."

"Relative to the 100% bioavailability from the intraarterial route the mean bioavailabilities were [...] sublingual, 13%"

transdermal: 15%



Other Notes:
Frequently Asked Questions

Q: How long after my last bupe dose can I take an opiate and feel its effects?
A: It depends on what dose of bupe you were taking and how long. The short answer is 36-48 hours, though it may certainly be less, or more than that. Caution should be used when dosing, as you will still have a tolerance but it will not be as high as it was when you first got on bupe.

Q: I'm thinking about switching from methadone to bupe. At what methadone dose should I be when I switch?
A: Most places recommend being at 30-40mgs of methadone when switching. That may be hard to achieve since that level is lower than the recommended therapeutic maintenance level. Also, you'd have to wait at the very least 36-48 hours before your last methadone dose to switch in order to avoid precipitated withdrawal.

Q: Is bupe good for depression/anxiety?
A: Yes, it may help with depression and anxiety. It is not currently prescribed for either and its effectiveness has not been studied for long term use for either. You may be able to get it prescribed off label for depression/anxiety, but its not likely to happen. Here is an article on PubMed about a study on bupe being used to treat depression.

Q: Is bupe recreational?
A: Yes. Although it is rarely the preferred opiate for people who have experience with full agonists, a few people do prefer it to full agonists (i.e. morphine).

Q: Can you overdose on buprenorphine?
A: Yes you can, but typically not by itself. Buprenorphine causes respiratory depression which may lead to death, but typically wouldn't do so in a healthy individual, unless you combined other CNS depressants with buprenorphine, like benzodiazepines, alcohol, barbiturates, and other downers. The person most likely to OD on bupe has a low(if any) tolerance to opiates and may have taken another depressant. A buprenorphine overdose may not be reversed by naloxone(or naltrexone for that matter) due to bupe's higher affinity. Diprenorphine may reverse the overdose, but it is not regularly stocked by emergency personnel or hospitals. If a proper antagonist isn't available, the person suffering an overdose may be maintained with assisted respiration.

Q: Can I still get high on other opiates if I'm on bupe?
A: This depends on what dose of bupe you're on. You will most likely be able to shoot through a low dose of bupe (1-2mgs). Though some might be able to expect the full effects of the opiate you're shooting through with, it is often only partially felt for many people. Even at higher doses, if you take enough of the opiate you may feel it. This is not recommended, as you may overdose before reaching the desired recreational effects. It is better to wait until bupe is no longer effecting you, or to stick the course with bupe treatment.

Q: How come you can IV Suboxone? Isn't naloxone going to put you into withdrawal?
A: No, naloxone will not put you into withdrawal. If you are using heroin or a full agonist, and then use Suboxone, you will go into precipitated withdrawal if you don't wait for regular withdrawal first. If you are otherwise already on buprenorphine, IVing Suboxone will not put you into withdrawal. This is because buprenorphine has greater receptor affinity than naloxone does

. There is no functional reason why naloxone is in Suboxone, and for all intensive purposes, Suboxone and Subutex are the same thing - both can be used with any route of administration.

Q: Is Suboxone safe to IV?
A: In essence, you should not shoot Suboxone. Unless you have enough patience and money to afford and use micron filters, Suboxone or Subutex, like any other pill, has risks when IVing. Missing a shot of Suboxone or Subutex may be more detrimental to your health, when compared to shooting out of a sterile ampule, or pure drugs in sterile water. Please read up on injection complications regarding pill based drugs, like Subutex, in the Case Studies thread. It is better, if you are truly intending on IVing buprenorphine (outside of the ampule version Buprenex), to read up on my Micron Filtering Mega Thread and FAQ and then purchase the necessary supplies to help enable a safer shooting experience for yourself.

Q: How good is bupe as an analgesic? What are the pain-killing properties like in comparison to other opiates?
A: This may vary from individual to individual, but what I can say for the average person, you will probably find that it is about half as good feasibly speaking as an analgesic (pain-killing) medication, compared to an equipotent dose of heroin, morphine, oxycodone, and so on. I have talked to several people who are pain patients, and they have a general consensus that while full agonist opiates are much better in the pain killing department, buprenorphine does help considerably when taking off the edge in mild to somewhat moderate pain cases. For people with moderate to heavy or severe pain issues, buprenorphine can do but only so much.

Q: If I am a pain patient, can I utilize buprenorphine?
A: Yes, it is possible. It will be most likely you will combine a compatible drug, like tramadol with it. However if you are going to combine full agonist opiates like morphine, hydrocodone, oxycodone, heroin, and so on, you are probably going to want to take a dose of buprenorphine first, and then once the effects are going, you can use other full agonist opiates on top of buprenorphine. However, you can't take another dose of buprenorphine until the full agonists have left your system. This is why if you're already dependent on full agonist opiates, it's better not to use buprenorphine as well (as you may go into precipitated withdrawal). If you have mild to moderate pain at best, and it flares up sometimes but doesn't at others, then you may be able to combine both buprenorphine and a full agonist on the days you need to, and then on the days you don't, you can stick to strictly buprenorphine.

Suboxone Mega Thread Directory - Other links about buprenorphine in Other Drugs

Alcohol and Suboxone - Alcoholic Solutions for Higher BA With Sublingual Use**
Buprenex - should I IM or IV?
Buprenorphine and Antihistamine IV FAQ
Buprenorphine as a recreational drug?
Buprenorphine dosages commonly prescribed are unnecessarily high
Buprenorphine for depression?
Buprenorphine patches
Buprenorphine withdrawals?
Ketoconazole Potenation of Suboxone
Mephedrone and Buprenorphine
Micron Filtering Mega Thread and FAQ - How to Micron Filter Suboxone
Nasal Administration of Suboxone - Issues
Rectal (Plugging) Buprenorphine
Suboxone in place of Naloxone in the event of an opiate overdose*
Suboxone sublingual film official thread
Subutex has gone generic
Tramadol and Suboxone

Discussion in the Suboxone mega thread goes along quite quickly, so we have a few other threads to promote intermediate/advanced discussion of buprenorphine and its formulations. These threads are meant to divert some of the more advanced discussion that otherwise becomes buried in the mega thread.

If there's another link you think which would go well in this list of related buprenorphine threads, please let me know. We're trying to reserve extra threads on buprenorphine for more intermediary/advanced discussion mostly to reserve the mega thread for a place for questions that can be answered quickly, and the other threads for a place for questions which will otherwise not get the same discussion going on in the mega thread, due to its quick pace.

If you have an idea for a new thread on buprenorphine, it's probably best to figure out by talking to a moderator first to see if it's thread worthy or should be discussed in the mega thread.

*Not Advised. Opiate antagonists are the only safe thing to do in case of an opiate overdose. Please do not give people Suboxone if they have overdosed.
**also known as "6/7's method" or "SixPartSeven's method"

Thank you for all your hard work over the years compiling this information... RIP Captain.Heroin

w/ love
- @deficiT

OP: "When reading another thread, I saw that the poor kid went into precipitated withdrawal by taking Suboxone too soon after his last hit of heroin. He said that to fix this, he shot more H. This sounds like he's already in over his head, but I was wondering if this is a valid fix. It would seem to me that this would not work because the Suboxone has a much higher affinity than the heroin. Can anyone answer this from experience? Let's use Subutex as an example to take nalaxone sickness out of the equation."
 
Last edited by a moderator:
When reading another thread, I saw that the poor kid went into precipitated withdrawal by taking Suboxone too soon after his last hit of heroin. He said that to fix this, he shot more H. This sounds like he's already in over his head, but I was wondering if this is a valid fix. It would seem to me that this would not work because the Suboxone has a much higher affinity than the heroin. Can anyone answer this from experience? Let's use Subutex as an example to take nalaxone sickness out of the equation.

You are correct that because bupe has a higher affinity for receptors, doing more heroin should not alleviate the precipitated withdrawal (unless you took it in massive doses which would be insanely dangerous).

You really have no choice but ride it out. A benzo might help with some of the symptoms.-DG
 
I know exactly what your talking about. If you try to use another opiate after using bupe(especially if you induce precip. withdrawal) it will do absolutely nothing. Speaking from experience(and two years of suboxone use) you generally need to wait about 16-20 hours after your last dose(thats for H though, i'm not sure about longer acting synthetics)before you will feel any relief from the buprenorphine. Everyone is different, however, and I know people who have shot up a few hours after taking suboxone and still got high.

To sum it up, you are correct, buprenorphine has a much higher affinity for opioid receptors thus making all other opiates "bounce off" the receptors while buprenorphine is active. If you are taking suboxone to get clean, stick with it, otherwise just use your normal drug. IMO you gotta want to be clean in order for suboxone to do its job, otherwise it just provides a shit ton of obstacles to getting high. Hope this helps
 
Thread Version 1.0
Thread Version 2.0


phrozen said:
What: Suboxone = buprenorphine/naloxone. Bupe is a partial agonist(mu) and antagonist(kappa). Bupe has higher mu affinity that most opiates, including some antagonists(naloxone, naltrexone). Its higher affinity allows you to shoot suboxone tablets. It also may cause precipitated withdrawals if you are dependant on other opiates. Also, its higher affinity blocks the affects of other opiates when taken in conjunction with bupe.

Dose: Depends on tolerance. 1-2mgs is a typical recreational dose for someone with no tolerance. If you're using bupe to taper off of another opiate, you should dose once you're experiencing wd's(typically 36-48 hrs. for most opiates). Start with 2-4mgs and dose at 2mg increments every 30-45minutes until a dose holds you. Most people take their full dose once a day.

Withdrawal: Typical physical and psychological symptoms associated with opiate withdrawal. Insomnia, chills, diarrhea, depression, anxiety, lacrimation, sweating, increased heart rate, etc. They are not as strong as a full agonist's symptoms, but may last longer. Physical symptoms last 1-2 weeks on average and psychological symptoms may last months.

As most opiates, it's recommended to taper down to the lowest dose possible before stopping. <1mg is ideal. The best way to dose at that level is to crush up a tablet and divide the powder into lower doses.

Ceiling: 24-32mgs

Bioavailability:
jasoncrest said:
Buprenorphine bioavailabilities:

intraduodenal: 9.7%

intrahepatoportal: 49%

intramuscular: 68%

"The observed mean intramuscular bioavailability was 68%"
"Studies of buprenorphine bioavailability have also examined the intramuscular (bioavailability, 50%–100%)"


intranasal: 50%
"Studies of buprenorphine bioavailability have also examined the [...] intranasal (bioavailability, 48%)
"The bioavailability of buprenorphine, HCl (BPP) in sheep after nasal administration of two formulations has been studied. 0.9 mg BPP in 150 microl was administered nasally and compared to 0.6 mg i.v. The test solutions were formulated with 30% polyethylene glycol 300 (PEG 300) and 5% dextrose, respectively. The bioavailability for PEG 300 was 70% (S.D.+/-27%, n=6), whereas the bioavailability for 5% dextrose was 89% (S.D.+/-23%, n=6)."
"Mean intranasal bioavailability was 48.2 +/- 8.35% (mean +/- s.e.m.) of the intravenous value"


intrarectal: 54%
"bioavailability of the drug was found to be: [... ]intrarectal (54%)..."
"Relative to the 100% bioavailability from the intraarterial route the mean bioavailabilities were [...] intrarectal, 54%..."


intravenous: 98%-100%

oral: 10%

"the oral bioavailability for buprenorphine is state to be 10%"
"due to extensive first-pass metabolism, buprenorphine has very poor oral bioavailability (10% of the intravenous route) if swallowed"


sublingual: ~30%
"Buprenorphine is well absorbed sublingually, with 60% to 70% of the bioavailability of intravenous doses"
"Study results indicate that bioavailability of sublingual buprenorphine is approximately 30%"
"Literature on bioavailability of sublingual buprenorphine presents variable numbers ranging from. 19–58% of the administered dose."

"Relative to the 100% bioavailability from the intraarterial route the mean bioavailabilities were [...] sublingual, 13%"

transdermal: 15%



Other Notes:

Images:
p05331b1.jpg

Subutex

p05331a6.jpg

Suboxone

Buprenorphine4%28a%29.preview.jpg

Generic Subutex Manufacturer: Roxane

bupr5378.jpg
bupr5379.jpg

Generic 2mg Manufacturer: Teva | Generic 8mg Manufacturer: Teva

Film_wide.jpg

2wrkytz.jpg

Suboxone Film Strips

bupe_tablets.jpg

Temgesic, 0.2mg

16buprenex.jpg

Buprenex Ampules

Locate a doctor that prescribes Suboxone.
Suboxone Assistance Program - Free Suboxone for Low Income Patients
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Frequently Asked Questions

Q: How long after my last bupe dose can I take an opiate and feel its effects?
A: It depends on what dose of bupe you were taking and how long. The short answer is 36-48 hours, though it may certainly be less, or more than that. Caution should be used when dosing, as you will still have a tolerance but it will not be as high as it was when you first got on bupe.

Q: I'm thinking about switching from methadone to bupe. At what methadone dose should I be when I switch?
A: Most places recommend being at 30-40mgs of methadone when switching. That may be hard to achieve since that level is lower than the recommended therapeutic maintenance level. Also, you'd have to wait at the very least 36-48 hours before your last methadone dose to switch in order to avoid precipitated withdrawal.

Q: Is bupe good for depression/anxiety?
A: Yes, it may help with depression and anxiety. It is not currently prescribed for either and its effectiveness has not been studied for long term use for either. You may be able to get it prescribed off label for depression/anxiety, but its not likely to happen. Here is an article on PubMed about a study on bupe being used to treat depression.

Q: Is bupe recreational?
A: Yes. Although it is rarely the preferred opiate for people who have experience with full agonists, a few people do prefer it to full agonists (i.e. morphine).

Q: Can you overdose on buprenorphine?
A: Yes you can, but typically not by itself. Buprenorphine causes respiratory depression which may lead to death, but typically wouldn't do so in a healthy individual, unless you combined other CNS depressants with buprenorphine, like benzodiazepines, alcohol, barbiturates, and other downers. The person most likely to OD on bupe has a low(if any) tolerance to opiates and may have taken another depressant. A buprenorphine overdose may not be reversed by naloxone(or naltrexone for that matter) due to bupe's higher affinity. Diprenorphine may reverse the overdose, but it is not regularly stocked by emergency personnel or hospitals. If a proper antagonist isn't available, the person suffering an overdose may be maintained with assisted respiration.

Q: Can I still get high on other opiates if I'm on bupe?
A: This depends on what dose of bupe you're on. You will most likely be able to shoot through a low dose of bupe (1-2mgs). Though some might be able to expect the full effects of the opiate you're shooting through with, it is often only partially felt for many people. Even at higher doses, if you take enough of the opiate you may feel it. This is not recommended, as you may overdose before reaching the desired recreational effects. It is better to wait until bupe is no longer effecting you, or to stick the course with bupe treatment.

Q: How come you can IV Suboxone? Isn't naloxone going to put you into withdrawal?
A: No, naloxone will not put you into withdrawal. If you are using heroin or a full agonist, and then use Suboxone, you will go into precipitated withdrawal if you don't wait for regular withdrawal first. If you are otherwise already on buprenorphine, IVing Suboxone will not put you into withdrawal. This is because buprenorphine has greater receptor affinity than naloxone does
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=541906
. There is no functional reason why naloxone is in Suboxone, and for all intensive purposes, Suboxone and Subutex are the same thing - both can be used with any route of administration.

Q: Is Suboxone safe to IV?
A: In essence, you should not shoot Suboxone. Unless you have enough patience and money to afford and use micron filters, Suboxone or Subutex, like any other pill, has risks when IVing. Missing a shot of Suboxone or Subutex may be more detrimental to your health, when compared to shooting out of a sterile ampule, or pure drugs in sterile water. Please read up on injection complications regarding pill based drugs, like Subutex, in the Case Studies thread. It is better, if you are truly intending on IVing buprenorphine (outside of the ampule version Buprenex), to read up on my Micron Filtering Mega Thread and FAQ and then purchase the necessary supplies to help enable a safer shooting experience for yourself.

Q: How good is bupe as an analgesic? What are the pain-killing properties like in comparison to other opiates?
A: This may vary from individual to individual, but what I can say for the average person, you will probably find that it is about half as good feasibly speaking as an analgesic (pain-killing) medication, compared to an equipotent dose of heroin, morphine, oxycodone, and so on. I have talked to several people who are pain patients, and they have a general consensus that while full agonist opiates are much better in the pain killing department, buprenorphine does help considerably when taking off the edge in mild to somewhat moderate pain cases. For people with moderate to heavy or severe pain issues, buprenorphine can do but only so much.

Q: If I am a pain patient, can I utilize buprenorphine?
A: Yes, it is possible. It will be most likely you will combine a compatible drug, like tramadol with it. However if you are going to combine full agonist opiates like morphine, hydrocodone, oxycodone, heroin, and so on, you are probably going to want to take a dose of buprenorphine first, and then once the effects are going, you can use other full agonist opiates on top of buprenorphine. However, you can't take another dose of buprenorphine until the full agonists have left your system. This is why if you're already dependent on full agonist opiates, it's better not to use buprenorphine as well (as you may go into precipitated withdrawal). If you have mild to moderate pain at best, and it flares up sometimes but doesn't at others, then you may be able to combine both buprenorphine and a full agonist on the days you need to, and then on the days you don't, you can stick to strictly buprenorphine.
 
Last edited:
Suboxone Mega Thread Directory - Other links about buprenorphine in Other Drugs

Alcohol and Suboxone - Alcoholic Solutions for Higher BA With Sublingual Use**
Buprenex - should I IM or IV?
Buprenorphine and Antihistamine IV FAQ
Buprenorphine as a recreational drug?
Buprenorphine dosages commonly prescribed are unnecessarily high
Buprenorphine for depression?
Buprenorphine patches
Buprenorphine withdrawals?
Ketoconazole Potenation of Suboxone
Mephedrone and Buprenorphine
Micron Filtering Mega Thread and FAQ - How to Micron Filter Suboxone
Nasal Administration of Suboxone - Issues
Rectal (Plugging) Buprenorphine
Suboxone in place of Naloxone in the event of an opiate overdose*
Suboxone sublingual film official thread
Subutex has gone generic
Tramadol and Suboxone

Discussion in the Suboxone mega thread goes along quite quickly, so we have a few other threads to promote intermediate/advanced discussion of buprenorphine and its formulations. These threads are meant to divert some of the more advanced discussion that otherwise becomes buried in the mega thread.

If there's another link you think which would go well in this list of related buprenorphine threads, please let me know. We're trying to reserve extra threads on buprenorphine for more intermediary/advanced discussion mostly to reserve the mega thread for a place for questions that can be answered quickly, and the other threads for a place for questions which will otherwise not get the same discussion going on in the mega thread, due to its quick pace.

If you have an idea for a new thread on buprenorphine, it's probably best to figure out by talking to a moderator first to see if it's thread worthy or should be discussed in the mega thread.

*Not Advised. Opiate antagonists are the only safe thing to do in case of an opiate overdose. Please do not give people Suboxone if they have overdosed.
**also known as "6/7's method" or "SixPartSeven's method"
 
I need to start tapering soon with my subs. I last seen my doctor a couple months ago and had gotten a script for 90 8mg's (1 month script)and made them last like 3 months and havnt been back since. So I'm not longer a patient. I currently have only 8 8mg suboxone left..I've been taking around 4mg-6mg throughout the day via IV the past 3-4 months, and before that i was taking 4mg a day SL. I have been on 4mg since January of this year, so around 11 months total. I'd like to taper to make the w/ds more bearable and even though i only have 8 left, I know they are powerful and can go a long way if I do it right, but does anyone have any suggestions as to how to use these last 8mgs to ease the w/ds by tapering?
 
I need to start tapering soon with my subs. I last seen my doctor a couple months ago and had gotten a script for 90 8mg's (1 month script)and made them last like 3 months and havnt been back since. So I'm not longer a patient. I currently have only 8 8mg suboxone left..I've been taking around 4mg-6mg throughout the day via IV the past 3-4 months, and before that i was taking 4mg a day SL. I have been on 4mg since January of this year, so around 11 months total. I'd like to taper to make the w/ds more bearable and even though i only have 8 left, I know they are powerful and can go a long way if I do it right, but does anyone have any suggestions as to how to use these last 8mgs to ease the w/ds by tapering?

I would cut your dose in half (1mg instead of 2mg IV, 0.5mg instead of 1mg IV, like that) and take a day or two to adjust to each drop. Eventually get it to the point where what you have left can stretch you an additional month or so.

Gradually start reducing the frequency of how often you dose.

You can switch to any ROA to help lower the dosage (you would get less of it with a lower BA) and also to help reduce the frequency of dosing.
 
hey guys........1mg is still holding me great......however i am not feeling to well these days.......swollen feet and eyes, from a missed shot i believe.....a week later none the less....

but i got my doc appt on friday.....so i wonder if i will have any updates......
 
I have been abusing opiate for 10 years. Started with hydrocodone and tramadol and worked my way up to oxycodone and occasionally heroin. I am tired of being a slave and I have reached a point in my life where my use is beginning to become problematic.

I started opiate replacement therapy 4 weeks ago. I was put on 8mg of suboxone per day dosed 4mg in the morning and 4mg in the evening.

Over the years I have successfully "quit" cold turkey many times and have even tried inpatient and outpatient treatments as well as methadone (obtained illicitly). My problem is not that I cannot quit... as I have many times, it is that I am unable to stay clean. Without opiates I feel empty and depressed. I feel as if something has changed in my brain chemically because of all my opiate use and now without opiates my brain does not function normally (I suspect with a long enough break I would eventually return to normal, but have not been able to stay clean longer than 6 months). I explained all this to my sub doctor during my induction. She seemed to understand and was very sympathetic.

My doctor has kept me at 8mg for 4 weeks now, but I just had another visit with her in which she asked me to try tapering down to 6mg per day. She said we would try to continue to taper slowly until I could eventually come off the sub completely.

I feel as she is pushing me to taper too fast. I told her I would try to get down to 6mg and let her know how it went on our next visit (which is scheduled next week). What I didn't want to tell her is that I have already self tapered down to 6mg. I did this as a precautionary measure... I want to stay ahead of her on the tapering schedule in case she decides to try and drop me before I am ready. I don't like deceiving her like this, but something tells me I should be prepared. During the induction she told me that there are very little to no withdrawals from suboxone. Because of this, I feel the need to be prepared. She may be naive to the terrible withdrawals suboxone can induce if improperly tapered...

I am very soft spoken and find it difficult to speak up about my needs. I barely know my doctor so I found it difficult during my last visit to express my concerns. I am not ready to begin tapering. Suboxone has changed my life. For the first time in years I feel like a normal human. I eat, sleep, watch tv and generally behave like a normal functioning human being... much in the same way as I remember myself being many years ago before ever abusing opiates. I feel more alive now than I have in a very long time. I no longer crave opiates, I don't crave getting high. My performance at work has sky rocketed. I am making major improvements to my life and to the relationships with people who are very important to me.

I'm not sure how long I will need to stay on suboxone, but I know that I need more time.

Sorry if this does not necessarily fit into the scope of this thread but I just need to express myself and help myself come to terms with everything so that I can be prepared to speak my mind to my doctor on our next visit. I would appreciate any advice anyone has if they care to share, and I hope my experience can help others who are in a similar situation.
 
1st a big warm Congrat Capt in reaching Megathread #11, i'm very proud we are at this point. Second, could we add the Teva Subutex please to the pictures up there as I just got them :)
I have gone from Reckitt, to Roxane to Finally Teva (cheapest) Subutex, gotta love it. Thinking to make this refill my last, i do want to feel Completely clean again after all, and the whole idea of me on Subutex was to clean up my body/mind after the wicked H years. It's been beautiful so far, but there is always room for even more change forward and life could be even prettier. I am grateful that i have met Mr. Subutex, especially those days when i reallycompletelytruly wanted to quit, i can't even imagine how quitting without Bupes was even possible or realistic without jumping back like a fart. On our way out today, i was putting my dose in a zip-lock then in my pocket so my gf looked at me with that lovely smile of hers and said:"Oh, he's coming with us" :) like it's part of our clean happy life now, and we're enjoying it to the fullest. Without rambling too much, let's keep his thread shining and let us keep the learning.

http://www.tevausa.com/default.aspx?brandName=Subutex® Tablets&pageId=76
 
I have been abusing opiate for 10 years. Started with hydrocodone and tramadol and worked my way up to oxycodone and occasionally heroin. I am tired of being a slave and I have reached a point in my life where my use is beginning to become problematic.

I started opiate replacement therapy 4 weeks ago. I was put on 8mg of suboxone per day dosed 4mg in the morning and 4mg in the evening.

Over the years I have successfully "quit" cold turkey many times and have even tried inpatient and outpatient treatments as well as methadone (obtained illicitly). My problem is not that I cannot quit... as I have many times, it is that I am unable to stay clean. Without opiates I feel empty and depressed. I feel as if something has changed in my brain chemically because of all my opiate use and now without opiates my brain does not function normally (I suspect with a long enough break I would eventually return to normal, but have not been able to stay clean longer than 6 months). I explained all this to my sub doctor during my induction. She seemed to understand and was very sympathetic.

My doctor has kept me at 8mg for 4 weeks now, but I just had another visit with her in which she asked me to try tapering down to 6mg per day. She said we would try to continue to taper slowly until I could eventually come off the sub completely.

I feel as she is pushing me to taper too fast. I told her I would try to get down to 6mg and let her know how it went on our next visit (which is scheduled next week). What I didn't want to tell her is that I have already self tapered down to 6mg. I did this as a precautionary measure... I want to stay ahead of her on the tapering schedule in case she decides to try and drop me before I am ready. I don't like deceiving her like this, but something tells me I should be prepared. During the induction she told me that there are very little to no withdrawals from suboxone. Because of this, I feel the need to be prepared. She may be naive to the terrible withdrawals suboxone can induce if improperly tapered...

I am very soft spoken and find it difficult to speak up about my needs. I barely know my doctor so I found it difficult during my last visit to express my concerns. I am not ready to begin tapering. Suboxone has changed my life. For the first time in years I feel like a normal human. I eat, sleep, watch tv and generally behave like a normal functioning human being... much in the same way as I remember myself being many years ago before ever abusing opiates. I feel more alive now than I have in a very long time. I no longer crave opiates, I don't crave getting high. My performance at work has sky rocketed. I am making major improvements to my life and to the relationships with people who are very important to me.

I'm not sure how long I will need to stay on suboxone, but I know that I need more time.

Sorry if this does not necessarily fit into the scope of this thread but I just need to express myself and help myself come to terms with everything so that I can be prepared to speak my mind to my doctor on our next visit. I would appreciate any advice anyone has if they care to share, and I hope my experience can help others who are in a similar situation.



Waow, we posted at the same time! Well buddy, that's why i love BlueLight, reading your story as soon as i posted mine made me feel like i have to write you back and tell you that these were my thoughts some time ago and i have been a heavy H user for 10 years (sniffing, never shot anything) I have tried before with Tramadol before Bupes were around but i always failed, until i discovered Subutex through a friend of mine from Europe and it was a miracle as i'm sure you're well aware. Keep tapering down as low as possible, and you will feel so much better as the days go by. Trust me man, getting clean for people like us is a blessing and hearing you saying that your life, work and relationships are all improving makes me happy for you, as it's been 3 months in my case and will probably get my last Subutex refill and that's that! Tapering down to ridiculously tiny doses, and then thank you very much. You sound happy, so keep it up and good luck.

Oh and by the way, 8 mg and 6 mg are high doses and you don't need a week to go down from 8 to 6 or from 6 to 4.
Take all the time you want, you're the one paying the doctor after all so be open and straight forward, your needs are your life
and maybe with time you open up more with him/her. 10 years are a long time my friend and they are out of your system after months and months, it's a long road, but the light at the end makes it all worth it. You said it yourself, tired of being a slave. Well, you're not anymore and the change is right before your eyes. Cheers
 
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Waow, we posted at the same time! Well buddy, that's why i love BlueLight, reading your story as soon as i posted mine made me feel like i have to write you back and tell you that these were my thoughts some time ago and i have been a heavy H user for 10 years (sniffing, never shot anything) I have tried before with Tramadol before Bupes were around but i always failed, until i discovered Subutex through a friend of mine from Europe and it was a miracle as i'm sure you're well aware. Keep tapering down as low as possible, and you will feel so much better as the days go by. Trust me man, getting clean for people like us is a blessing and hearing you saying that your life, work and relationships are all improving makes me happy for you, as it's been 3 months in my case and will probably get my last Subutex refill and that's that! Tapering down to ridiculously tiny doses, and then thank you very much. You sound happy, so keep it up and good luck.

Oh and by the way, 8 mg and 6 mg are high doses and you don't need a week to go down from 8 to 6 or from 6 to 4.
Take all the time you want, you're the one paying the doctor after all so be open and straight forward, your needs are your life
and maybe with time you open up more with him/her. 10 years are a long time my friend and they are out of your system after months and months, it's a long road, but the light at the end makes it all worth it. You said it yourself, tired of being a slave. Well, you're not anymore and the change is right before your eyes. Cheers

Thank you for the reply been&done. :) I have done lots of reading here about suboxone and I'm aware it should be easy an most likely beneficial for me to taper down considerably from where I am at. I will do so soon but there is comfort in high doses for myself and my loved ones in knowing that I am on a high enough dose to block most opiates should I have a lapse in judgement.

Mostly I just need to overcome my timidness and force myself to talk openly with my doctor... for some this must sound ridiculous but for me its quite an obstacle to pass.
 
Wherever your comfort is...stick to it, this is the only way and you'll enjoy it too. Open up with your doctor, things will be much easier and smoother then. Good luck

I have to say that the Teva Subutex are exactly the same as the Reckitt and as the Roxane. Thank God, because i was happy i was paying less for the 1st time ever (no insurance) but it was also the 1st time that i see those Teva ones, i knew of the company from what i read on Wikipedia, but never even seen pics, so i tried them and phew....as amazing as the others. loving how the companies are realizing that Bupe are a money maker and the market is on heat! Good for us
 
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Ya man, I'm excited to hear that. I mean, I really am digging the Reck Film but generic non-flavored bupe pills would obviously be far cheaper (losing my insurance in a month). In any case, competition is a good thing. Look at the smart phone market now. :\
 
1st a big warm Congrat Capt in reaching Megathread #11, i'm very proud we are at this point. Second, could we add the Teva Subutex please to the pictures up there as I just got them :)
I have gone from Reckitt, to Roxane to Finally Teva (cheapest) Subutex, gotta love it. Thinking to make this refill my last, i do want to feel Completely clean again after all, and the whole idea of me on Subutex was to clean up my body/mind after the wicked H years. It's been beautiful so far, but there is always room for even more change forward and life could be even prettier. I am grateful that i have met Mr. Subutex, especially those days when i reallycompletelytruly wanted to quit, i can't even imagine how quitting without Bupes was even possible or realistic without jumping back like a fart. On our way out today, i was putting my dose in a zip-lock then in my pocket so my gf looked at me with that lovely smile of hers and said:"Oh, he's coming with us" :) like it's part of our clean happy life now, and we're enjoying it to the fullest. Without rambling too much, let's keep his thread shining and let us keep the learning.

http://www.tevausa.com/default.aspx?brandName=Subutex® Tablets&pageId=76

Thanks, and done.
 
I concur, this thread by and far is the best source for bupe information on the websicles.

edit - why do those suboxone strips have "L4" imprinted on them? I get the 2mg ones and they say "N2"
 
The link "clinical guidance..." under Other Notes is broken, just thought i'd mention

Yes it is, we're leaving this info for the generations to come, so let's do the best we can

@Capt H: Keep up the amazing job!
 
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