Bupe Suboxone Mega Thread and FAQ v. 19

Thekid331

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When reading another thread, I saw that the poor kid went into precipitated withdrawal by taking Suboxone too soon after his last hit of heroin. He said that to fix this, he shot more H. This sounds like he's already in over his head, but I was wondering if this is a valid fix. It would seem to me that this would not work because the Suboxone has a much higher affinity than the heroin. Can anyone answer this from experience? Let's use Subutex as an example to take nalaxone sickness out of the equation.
 

daddysgone

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When reading another thread, I saw that the poor kid went into precipitated withdrawal by taking Suboxone too soon after his last hit of heroin. He said that to fix this, he shot more H. This sounds like he's already in over his head, but I was wondering if this is a valid fix. It would seem to me that this would not work because the Suboxone has a much higher affinity than the heroin. Can anyone answer this from experience? Let's use Subutex as an example to take nalaxone sickness out of the equation.
You are correct that because bupe has a higher affinity for receptors, doing more heroin should not alleviate the precipitated withdrawal (unless you took it in massive doses which would be insanely dangerous).

You really have no choice but ride it out. A benzo might help with some of the symptoms.-DG
 

pstyles89

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I know exactly what your talking about. If you try to use another opiate after using bupe(especially if you induce precip. withdrawal) it will do absolutely nothing. Speaking from experience(and two years of suboxone use) you generally need to wait about 16-20 hours after your last dose(thats for H though, i'm not sure about longer acting synthetics)before you will feel any relief from the buprenorphine. Everyone is different, however, and I know people who have shot up a few hours after taking suboxone and still got high.

To sum it up, you are correct, buprenorphine has a much higher affinity for opioid receptors thus making all other opiates "bounce off" the receptors while buprenorphine is active. If you are taking suboxone to get clean, stick with it, otherwise just use your normal drug. IMO you gotta want to be clean in order for suboxone to do its job, otherwise it just provides a shit ton of obstacles to getting high. Hope this helps
 

Tenninethousand

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Took small dose of suboxone this morning...how long to wait?

I'm sure there are multiple threads on this but I couldn't find one to fit my specific situation. For the past two weeks or so, I've been taking small amounts of suboxone every morning...around 2mg or so tops. I took another dose this morning of 2mg. Now, it has been around 12 hours since my last dose. How long should I wait to be able to feel the effects of the oxycodone? I know it may take a day or two for the full effect..but yeah.
 

Znegative

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YeA you will feel it. It varies from person to person, which im sure you know, but i took 1mg one time and took my normal dose of opana About 3 hours later and felt it all if not more.

Many times i use about .2-.5 of suboxone as a potentiator.
Yeah, it's possible that the full agonist can be potentated by a small dosage of buprenorphine, taken BEFORE the full agonist. You don't want to add .5 mg after you've dosed on oxy/heroin, or youll find yourself in precipitated withdrawal.
 

ms4104

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Not positive how your body is and how oxycodone will react but I find it extremely easy to get high when i am on 2mg bupe.. even if it's only 6 hours I can shoot a single bag of dope and get high.

Honestly i'll feel higher that 1st night i get high when I took 2mg bupe in the morning than I do the next day when i have no bupe in my system and dose.
 

maxim10553

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Alright dude, since I have tried this SOOOO many times I will give you the straight dope. No pun intended. To feel it you are going to need to wait AT THE VERY LEAST 36 hours. 24 hours you will feel extremely weak effects especially if you dosed 2 mg or more. If you were dosing .5 mg or under 24 hours would be sufficient as long as you were not on a maintenance dose but honestly dont waste your oxy, do the smart thing and wait a day and a half, 2 for the full effects. Sucks but its true. Bottom line is that once you start to feel withdrawl effects then you are ready to dose the oxy. This means wait until you can see your pupils, wait until your not constipated, feel nauseous, nervous, sweaty, cold chills. The more of these characteristics you possess the more likely the oxy is gonna hit you nicely. Take it from me, i wasted a shitload of 30s trying this.
 

Tenninethousand

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Well, once again I took a tinyyyy piece of a sub last night around 2:00 am and I just did a small line of Opana 40. I feel the effects of the Opana for sure...I'm obviously not sure if it's as much as I normally would just because it was a small line but I do feel it. Anyway, what do all of you mean exactly that taking a small bit of sub could actually make the Opana more potent? More details or proof? But yeah like I said, I haven't waited 24 hours and I still feel good. Just wondering if it's 100%.
 

Tommyboy

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Anyway, what do all of you mean exactly that taking a small bit of sub could actually make the Opana more potent? More details or proof? But yeah like I said, I haven't waited 24 hours and I still feel good. Just wondering if it's 100%.
What they mean is low doses (1mg and under) may not cause the blockade effect, and if it does not saturate your opiate receptors there may be more room for other opiates to attach, allowing the other opiates to add to the opiate effects felt by the suboxone.

It may or may not work for you, but you have the best chance of it working if you have not taken the suboxone for a few consecutive days. Since the bupe has a long half life, taking it for consecutive days causes it to build up, making it more likely to block other opiates. Always be sure to take the suboxone first since taking it too soon after other opiates may cause precipitated withdrawals.
 

bmo1085

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An answer from experience

You are correct that because bupe has a higher affinity for receptors, doing more heroin should not alleviate the precipitated withdrawal (unless you took it in massive doses which would be insanely dangerous).

You really have no choice but ride it out. A benzo might help with some of the symptoms.-DG
This is why I hate reading so many message boards. You go to read about experiences, not some people on the internet who think they are pharmacology experts.

I can tell you from personal experience that taking additional opiates will stop the precipitated withdrawals. This happened to me a few years ago when I took Suboxone too early. I would assume the reason behind this is because the receptors are not actually bound with the buprenorphine (or else you wouldn't be having the withdrawals in the first place). But, then again, I don't really know why and I won't pretend to. All I know is what I've experienced. That's why I used the word "assume" and didn't act as if I know for sure the reason why additional opiates help. There are so many people out there just like this. It really gets on my nerves because it's basically all you see. If you're not an expert, don't state your assumptions as facts. Most of the time, when people ask these kinds of questions, I assume they want someone with experience. Think before you post.
 

Cyb

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Aaaactually, DG is pretty much on the dot. You go into withdrawal BECAUSE the buprenorphine is attached to receptors. It has a lower efficacy but higher affinity than most other opioids, which causes the precipitated withdrawal. And yes, a benzo *might* alleviate some of the symptoms, but in PW, nothing short of an anaesthetic dose of said benzo will 'truly' help.

Cyb
 

bigjoey

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def right.one of the 1st times i tried to kick with subs,at home i took my dose of H,3bags,waited until a few hours later when i felt a little ill and took a whole 8mg sub.went into full WD's in about 20minutes.i tried to shoot 2 bundles,2 bags at a time but just kept getting sicker.worst feeling i had cause it lasted 2 extra days,the dope wouldn't work then the WD's from the H kicked in.finally learned to wait a full 24hrs till i was on the floor puking in a pool of my sweat to take subs.best feeling ever.i love/hate subs now.trying to wean but the wean ain't winning...
 

tyrael

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Ok, ok, ok, ok. Seeing as there's only 6 posts so far in this thread I'll take them one by one.....

When reading another thread, I saw that the poor kid went into precipitated withdrawal by taking Suboxone too soon after his last hit of heroin......
To begin with, there is always a lot to a story then people post on forums. So my explanations and the such are done so using the (little) information available.

In Thekid's situation above.....without first putting himself into a withdrawn state, then yes, going from an addict goes straight from a heavy/daily use straight into a maintenance program using Suboxone, the pt will without question be forcefully thrown into precipitated withdrawals - which is say the least, is not the nicest position to be in! Now if the kid's addiction was rather extreme, then the precipitated withdrawal state would not only be due to the immediate switch from heroin (comparatively speaking) - a full-agonist, low binding affinity to (certain) opiate receptors - to the bupe - a partial-agonist, with a higher binding affinity - but also the effects felt by the Naloxone. The stoichometry between bupe and narc is such for a multitude of reasons (I personally find this alone rather interesting :) ). As you said however, unless the subsequent dose (after the Subs) is that of an opiate with a higher binding affinity then that of both the bupe and narc, then no, no effects will be felt. (technically speaking it maybe possible to dose a opiate which has a higher affinity then bupe but not of the narc, and so feel some relief. To what extent however, I cannot say).


....unless you took it in massive doses which would be insanely dangerous
.....
You really have no choice but ride it out. A benzo might help with some of the symptoms.-DG
Even at that, I would be extremely surprise if any effect was felt, regardless of the dose.

Although benzo's may help symptomatically, I personally would be very hesitant in suggesting this! Especially without knowing the pt's full Hx and complete workup. Personally too many caveats.


.....
If you are taking suboxone to get clean, stick with it, otherwise just use your normal drug. IMO you gotta want to be clean in order for suboxone to do its job, otherwise it just provides a shit ton of obstacles to getting high. Hope this helps
Agreed mate. For the indications bupe is used, it does this well. I personally don't think it has much of any recreational value - and as pstyles said - you're on bupe for a reason - to get off of other (more destructive) opiates and get your life back together. Otherwise, don't bother! :)



This is why I hate reading so many message boards. You go to read about experiences, not some people on the internet who think they are pharmacology experts.
....
I can tell you from personal experience that taking additional opiates will stop the precipitated withdrawals.
....
If you're not an expert, don't state your assumptions as facts. Most of the time, when people ask these kinds of questions, I assume they want someone with experience. Think before you post.
Good points! Regardless of the thread/it's topic/how "knowledgeable" a reply may be/etc, all replies should in the end be taken with a grain of salt.....for the reasons you've stated above! A lot of responses to posts are just that, personal experience. However, this does count for something! Additionally, you don't know the education/profession/etc of who is on the other side of the post. For instance, I know for a fact, due to being quite good friends and having met them multiple times off of BL, that there are people on BL who do work in widely varying positions through the entire spectrum of medicine/health - from aged care, to mental health, to pathology, to nursing/GP's, etc. So, yes, at the same time there are poster on here who actually hold sound knowledge in their field, and do know what their talking about. (an extremely rough guide can be also looking at their post count. someone with thousands of posts, or are maybe a moderator are/do such for a reason). Basically, don't assume you know someone just from their post(s). :)
 

Diacetyl_Morpheen

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Myfriend, being an impatient idiot.. Just Injected two bags of good quality Heroin- This being 12 hours after taking Four mg. of Suboxone. He felt the initial rush, but the high didn't last and the rush was noticeably stifled. :/ How many must I.. Er he, waste his money? Dammit!
 

junkieman08

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How long after last suboxone dose before using opiates again.

i've been on and off heroin for the past 4 months now. Just this last month i got a really good job making great money. I want to get off the junk so i am on a one month waiting list for the suboxone doctor. so im basically trying to avoid a withdrawl until then. I scored a 8mg sub strip and took half (4mg) at 3 a.m. with great sucess. I took the other half at 10 a.m. the same day. I am unable to score another sub, so i know i will be getting some kind of opiate until my doc visit 3 weeks from now. So I would like to know how long do you think i need to wait after my last bupe dosage at 10 a.m. before i can take an opiate and recieve the full effect. Thanks
 

laCster

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because you took such a high dose (8mg), you wont be able to get high until 48-72 hrs after you took the sub at 10am.

next time, use the search function, this question has been asked SOOOO many times.
 
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