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Opioids Suboxone-Making an alcohol based tincture.

CfZrx

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Nov 23, 2014
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East St. Paul
So I've been looking at this 5mL glass vial I own, and wondering what a good ratio of Everclear high % alcohol to sub strips would be. The idea would be to be able to suck up a tiny bit of the mixture and place under my tongue with the dropper. Obviously putting an 8mg strip into a full 5mL alcohol solution might result in too diluted of a mixture. Any math whizzes out there or even just a best guess would be appreciated. My first thought is an 8mg strip dissolved into half that vial, so 2.5 mL more or less. That would make a pretty potent mix, right?

Have millions already done this experiment? Well, today my job shut down for CORONa vIRUS. I am happy in one way, but how the fuck will we pay rent if it lasts more than a month? So many will be destroyed by this bullshit bat flu!
 

JTemperance

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May 15, 2016
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134
Location
In A Bourgeois Town
So I've been looking at this 5mL glass vial I own, and wondering what a good ratio of Everclear high % alcohol to sub strips would be. The idea would be to be able to suck up a tiny bit of the mixture and place under my tongue with the dropper. Obviously putting an 8mg strip into a full 5mL alcohol solution might result in too diluted of a mixture. Any math whizzes out there or even just a best guess would be appreciated. My first thought is an 8mg strip dissolved into half that vial, so 2.5 mL more or less. That would make a pretty potent mix, right?

Have millions already done this experiment? Well, today my job shut down for CORONa vIRUS. I am happy in one way, but how the fuck will we pay rent if it lasts more than a month? So many will be destroyed by this bullshit bat flu!
If you dissolve an 8mg into half of the 5ml vial, you'll have a solution that is 3.2mg per ml. If you draw it up with an insulin syringe, 10 units will be 0.32mg.

I don't know what a strong dose is for you, but buprenorphine is pretty soluble in ethanol (and water) so you could but the whole strip in 1ml (or less) if you wanted to. With larger amounts of alcohol solution, you can swish like mouthwash rather than try to keep it under your tongue -- the effect seems to be basically the same.

EDIT: And good luck making ends meet while this runs its course. Hopefully the government will do something for people in this position, but I can't say I count on it...
 

CfZrx

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Nov 23, 2014
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East St. Paul
Wow, thanks JTemperance! I didn't even think about bringing an insulin syringe into the picture. That would be very helpful for measuring a small dose. I take 8 to 10 mg daily. Recently bumped back to 10 after I did a couple months at 8 to save a few strips for emergency purposes. I like the idea of a .32mg dose. My guess is that such a small amount of alcohol would only need to be under the tongue for a couple minutes.
Frankly, I will prob stick with dropping it between my lower gums and cheek so I don't have to worry about not talking etc.. Seems to absorb very well in this manner. I never thought to swish it around, that's an interesting route I may attempt :) Thanks, CfZrx
 

JTemperance

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Messages
134
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In A Bourgeois Town
Wow, thanks JTemperance! I didn't even think about bringing an insulin syringe into the picture. That would be very helpful for measuring a small dose. I take 8 to 10 mg daily. Recently bumped back to 10 after I did a couple months at 8 to save a few strips for emergency purposes. I like the idea of a .32mg dose. My guess is that such a small amount of alcohol would only need to be under the tongue for a couple minutes.
Frankly, I will prob stick with dropping it between my lower gums and cheek so I don't have to worry about not talking etc.. Seems to absorb very well in this manner. I never thought to swish it around, that's an interesting route I may attempt :) Thanks, CfZrx
My pleasure. :)

You might be able to use a lower dose with a tincture, since studies have shown buprenorphine in an alcoholic solution being up to ~40% more potent than the same dose given as a sublingual tablet/film, and lots of people on BL have felt it was subjectively stronger as well. (It's not clear whether the improved bioavailability is just from being in a solution, in which case water would work as well, or if the alcohol content is responsible.) Also, I think most of the absorption is completed pretty quickly with a liquid, and shouldn't require more than a couple of minutes of holding it or swishing it in the mouth.
 

CfZrx

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Yes, maybe once I get this down to a science, I can drop back to 8mg or even less! How's life in your part of the world? Are people buying all the damn toilet paper like they are here in the US?
 

CfZrx

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East St. Paul
UPDATE: Today I placed 8 mg into 80 units of EVERCLEAR alcohol. So 1 mg per ten units. I'm not impressed to be honest. I will still experiment a bit to make a final decision as to whether it's better than just using strips buccally.
 

Mr.Deeds

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IMO, the best way to make a tincture would be to first dissolve the strip into a very small amount of ethanol, about .5ml or so. Due to the high solubility, it wouldnt take very much to have all of the bupe dissolved into the EtOH. Next try to filter out the nasty gunk from the strip, this will make the solution much easier on the nose. Finally, dilute with H2O to your preferred mg/ml dose. It will also reduce that burn.
 

CfZrx

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Nov 23, 2014
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East St. Paul
IMO, the best way to make a tincture would be to first dissolve the strip into a very small amount of ethanol, about .5ml or so. Due to the high solubility, it wouldnt take very much to have all of the bupe dissolved into the EtOH. Next try to filter out the nasty gunk from the strip, this will make the solution much easier on the nose. Finally, dilute with H2O to your preferred mg/ml dose. It will also reduce that burn.
Holy shit Deeds! I hadn't even considered sniffing the mixture,lol. Do you think the alcohol's effect on my nose veins would strengthen the bupe's effects enough to noticeable compared to just doing what you said with water? Yup, I've just been putting it under my tongue. I'm possibly willing to try it if you think it would be a great ROA.
 

MDPV_Psychosis

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Norcal
Ouch isn't the higher alcohol content causing chemical like burns in the mouth? I remember trying to hold a tincture made with alcohol under my tongue once, i only felt mild burning for the 10 minutes I kept it there but then suffered pain for the next couple of days as the damage it caused healed. It was similar to the pain you'd feel if you ate something really really hot and burned your mouth badly. Maybe I'm just more sensitive?
 

Mr.Deeds

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UPDATE: I do think the alcohol/bupe tincture increases potency. A lot
The intranasal ROA would increase absorption, and with a solubility of ~42mg/ml in95% EtOH it wouldnt take much. You can probably drop the volume of alcohol needed to .3ml or less as long as everything is fully saturated and then dilute with water. It WILL burn regardless and eventually damage the nose. Even bupe/water intranasally burns bad IME.
 

zettttf

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Joined
Mar 26, 2020
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is one clean from opiates for 4 days able to get any recreation from suboxone? maybe with this tincture
 

CfZrx

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is one clean from opiates for 4 days able to get any recreation from suboxone? maybe with this tincture
Definitely! I have decided it works super well! Suboxone can be a subtle high if you have been taking it for years, but damn I sure notice it when it's bedtime. I can't fall asleep because there is so much extra bupe in my bloodstream from this tinctures powers!!!
 

Mr.Deeds

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is one clean from opiates for 4 days able to get any recreation from suboxone? maybe with this tincture
I would imagine so, but that depends on the opiate/opioid you have been using and how much of it. Most likely yes it will work (recreational results not guaranteed), but if you were in an opioid like methadone then the results will probably be significantly smaller.
 

CfZrx

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Nov 23, 2014
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Let's say it's almost 4:30 PM, and you know if you take your bupe too late, sleep will be impossible. So you want to take your remaining 6mg as 3 doses of 2mg each. Using the tincture we've discussed in this thread, how long do you think one would need to hold the first 2 mg dose before swallowing and taking the next 2mg dose? Is 5 minutes enough? I would think that the alcohol would make most of what your gonna get absorb though your lingual vein system within a few minutes. :unsure:
 

Wishdoctor79

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Joined
Apr 27, 2018
Messages
24
My first reaction to this thread was maybe they're feeling some euphoria from the alcohol, and i was gonna ask if anyone had compared the "vodka" carrier to water in same concentration but then i remembered that the initial FDA filing of Reckitt for Suboxone and Subutex was before they even had any designs for the tablets and all of the initial human studies were done with solutions of alcohol and water. I'll see if i can find the concentration. But you guys are on to something here and reading it made me rummage around and find the 50-odd 8/2 tablets of the rock-hard Amneal generic Suboxone. I've been using tiny amounts for an 18-year-old (4 kg) cat with the pains of aging and who seems to benefit greatly from my home-made water solution sprayed into his mouth with a 29 gauge insulin needle with tip broken off so it sprays a mist and he can easily handle 0.1 ml of the spray without choking or suffocating, but 0.2 ml is quite a lot for him makes him gag. The strength i mix up for use only in my cats as needed for pain or complaining is one-half of the Buprenex strength, where Buprenex ampoules from the vet are 0.3 mg/ml, so i'm giving him 0.015 mg, or 15 mcg. The reason for the half-strength is that it's difficult to measure exactly 0.1 ml and i don't want to give more than he really needs.

Here's how I prepared my last batch, which is a huge amount for one elderly cat. Use a pill cutter to break it into pieces and then dissolve one 8/2 Suboxone in 50 ml of distilled water. 8 mg/50 ml = 0.16 mg/ml. Buprenex is 0.3 mg/ml and it's commonly prescribed by veterinarians who dispense pre-filled 1-ml oral syringes with usually either 0.1 ml or 0.2 ml of Buprenex for house cats with severe pain. So my minimum dose is half of what the vets commonly prescribe but he's getting it sometimes on a daily basis and maybe just for his "comfort" or opiate maintenance as it's now defined in federal law.

Originally I was using an oral syringe to squirt 0.2 ml at a time of the solution but it made him gag. So for a long time it was just 0.1 ml at a time giving him a dose whenever he seemed to needit or i just wanted him to get some sleep and leave me alone. Anyway, spraying just 0.1 ml into his mouth with an insulin needle with needle broken off seems to be the best approach. I hardly ever give him that more than twice a day.

Back to my real interest in this thread. It's been so long since taking them that I might as well give it a try to take the Suboxone for my own opiate maintenance needs after a few years of MMT from a clinic i've written about here very recently, and then a year to taper down to zero on my own, and then a year or two of just kratom, and i've been coming around to the realization that the kratom and the poppy pods are just not enough for me to be a fully functional person, and getting high is the furthest thing from my mind, i just want to have the energy to get up and do thinsg instead of a never-ending fatigue and tiredness that reliably disappears for at least hours when i take one of the precious 60-mg codeine tabs stashed away for emergencies, and this emergency was my needing to know if i'd feel energized by taking a "real" opiate because the kratom doesn't do anything and the poppy pods have other alkaloids in there that cause sedation.

So. I want to get the most out of the 8/2 Amneal hard-as-rock and so that means either or both grinding them into powder in a mortar & pestle and putting the powder under my tongue, or dissolving that powder into an alcohol/water solution. What advice and facts and experience can you people offer me?
 

Wishdoctor79

Greenlighter
Joined
Apr 27, 2018
Messages
24
It was the post here saying that the person can't take their Suboxone at night because of the insomnia it causes that reminded me of a bottle of 8/2 stashed away somewhere. It had 52 tabs remaining from the #60 last Rx'd in 2014 and one of those tabs was broken up into tiny pieces and crumbs which is the most efficient way of dividing the dose. No point in grinding it up into powder. Take just one tab at a time and break it up into pieces and keep those separate from the whole tabs remaining.

Put just a tiny piece under the tongue when you have about 15-20 minutes before you'd need to talk or drink or etc. to get maximum uptake subingual. It works in my case. Instead of having my morning go by in slow motion and have to lie down and rest many times before noon, i felt fully awake even before making coffee, and my last dose was over 12 hours ago. The only physicians who could understand what it's like to feel energized and pepped up by a small opioid dose was a methadone clinic doctor. When i stopped trying to use Suboxone myself it was 2014 and that's when i went on methadone which was the best decision i ever made because taking crumbs or even a whole tablet my mouth or IMor whatever did more harm than good. But now after all these years it seems to be having the most beneficial effect and the best advice i can give anyone interested in taking it is to always remember Less is More.
 

CfZrx

Bluelighter
Joined
Nov 23, 2014
Messages
2,329
Location
East St. Paul
My first reaction to this thread was maybe they're feeling some euphoria from the alcohol, and i was gonna ask if anyone had compared the "vodka" carrier to water in same concentration but then i remembered that the initial FDA filing of Reckitt for Suboxone and Subutex was before they even had any designs for the tablets and all of the initial human studies were done with solutions of alcohol and water. I'll see if i can find the concentration. But you guys are on to something here and reading it made me rummage around and find the 50-odd 8/2 tablets of the rock-hard Amneal generic Suboxone. I've been using tiny amounts for an 18-year-old (4 kg) cat with the pains of aging and who seems to benefit greatly from my home-made water solution sprayed into his mouth with a 29 gauge insulin needle with tip broken off so it sprays a mist and he can easily handle 0.1 ml of the spray without choking or suffocating, but 0.2 ml is quite a lot for him makes him gag. The strength i mix up for use only in my cats as needed for pain or complaining is one-half of the Buprenex strength, where Buprenex ampoules from the vet are 0.3 mg/ml, so i'm giving him 0.015 mg, or 15 mcg. The reason for the half-strength is that it's difficult to measure exactly 0.1 ml and i don't want to give more than he really needs.

Here's how I prepared my last batch, which is a huge amount for one elderly cat. Use a pill cutter to break it into pieces and then dissolve one 8/2 Suboxone in 50 ml of distilled water. 8 mg/50 ml = 0.16 mg/ml. Buprenex is 0.3 mg/ml and it's commonly prescribed by veterinarians who dispense pre-filled 1-ml oral syringes with usually either 0.1 ml or 0.2 ml of Buprenex for house cats with severe pain. So my minimum dose is half of what the vets commonly prescribe but he's getting it sometimes on a daily basis and maybe just for his "comfort" or opiate maintenance as it's now defined in federal law.

Originally I was using an oral syringe to squirt 0.2 ml at a time of the solution but it made him gag. So for a long time it was just 0.1 ml at a time giving him a dose whenever he seemed to needit or i just wanted him to get some sleep and leave me alone. Anyway, spraying just 0.1 ml into his mouth with an insulin needle with needle broken off seems to be the best approach. I hardly ever give him that more than twice a day.

Back to my real interest in this thread. It's been so long since taking them that I might as well give it a try to take the Suboxone for my own opiate maintenance needs after a few years of MMT from a clinic i've written about here very recently, and then a year to taper down to zero on my own, and then a year or two of just kratom, and i've been coming around to the realization that the kratom and the poppy pods are just not enough for me to be a fully functional person, and getting high is the furthest thing from my mind, i just want to have the energy to get up and do thinsg instead of a never-ending fatigue and tiredness that reliably disappears for at least hours when i take one of the precious 60-mg codeine tabs stashed away for emergencies, and this emergency was my needing to know if i'd feel energized by taking a "real" opiate because the kratom doesn't do anything and the poppy pods have other alkaloids in there that cause sedation.

So. I want to get the most out of the 8/2 Amneal hard-as-rock and so that means either or both grinding them into powder in a mortar & pestle and putting the powder under my tongue, or dissolving that powder into an alcohol/water solution. What advice and facts and experience can you people offer me?
It was the post here saying that the person can't take their Suboxone at night because of the insomnia it causes that reminded me of a bottle of 8/2 stashed away somewhere. It had 52 tabs remaining from the #60 last Rx'd in 2014 and one of those tabs was broken up into tiny pieces and crumbs which is the most efficient way of dividing the dose. No point in grinding it up into powder. Take just one tab at a time and break it up into pieces and keep those separate from the whole tabs remaining.

Put just a tiny piece under the tongue when you have about 15-20 minutes before you'd need to talk or drink or etc. to get maximum uptake subingual. It works in my case. Instead of having my morning go by in slow motion and have to lie down and rest many times before noon, i felt fully awake even before making coffee, and my last dose was over 12 hours ago. The only physicians who could understand what it's like to feel energized and pepped up by a small opioid dose was a methadone clinic doctor. When i stopped trying to use Suboxone myself it was 2014 and that's when i went on methadone which was the best decision i ever made because taking crumbs or even a whole tablet my mouth or IMor whatever did more harm than good. But now after all these years it seems to be having the most beneficial effect and the best advice i can give anyone interested in taking it is to always remember Less is More.
My only advice is all the stuff I talked about in above posts. Keep me updated on your experience. I'd be curious as to your review of a sub/alcohol mixture :)
 
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