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Opioids Suboxone Just As Good As Methadone For Pain

CfZrx

Bluelighter
Joined
Nov 23, 2014
Messages
2,585
Case closed. After a month or so on sub, I can say with absolute certainty that it is an excellent painkiller. I will say this: There are giant myths surrounding buprenorphine, like even scholarly articles that downplay it's analgesia. Based on my personal findings, now I even question all the BL lore that analgesia doesn't increase as dose increases! I bet it actually increases exactly like every other drug. I am considering asking for a "raise" (lol) to 8 mg and even higher to analyze the painkilling properties. I will update. Please offer your insight, fellow skeptics. p.s. and with methadone you can't just take a little bump, or like CH used to post about, an injection to obtain absolute analgesia for an hour or two!
 
Interesting.In here Temgesic 0.4mg is used for painkiller and my doctor said that 1.2mg is max when used in painkiller.
I have nerve pain from busted up spine and that dose is enough for me to numb the pain.I can still feel the pain but i just dont care about it.
I can do full day of work with that dose and get great sleep when i take 300mg Lyrica and 100mg Norflex for the night,that dose pretty much take all the pain away.
 
Be careful requesting a bump and going up to 8mg. Suboxone is indeed good for pain killing but I find going higher in dose doesn't really help that aspect of it. You'll be raising your tolerance for no reason. It's as good as methadone for me as well but it doesn't have the floaty feel of morphine either. Both methadone and suboxone also put you in a bit of mind fog that you don't realize you're experiencing until you quit using them. When you're on them daily you think they aren't affecting you like classic opioids but upon quitting it's obvious that you've been sedated. They really screw with mental clarity.
 
.... Both methadone and suboxone also put you in a bit of mind fog that you don't realize you're experiencing until you quit using them. When you're on them daily you think they aren't affecting you like classic opioids but upon quitting it's obvious that you've been sedated. They really screw with mental clarity.
^ This is sooo true. Not to hijack the thread or anything but this is, in my opinion ,one of the least talked about problems with opioid use long term. When I switched from pst to kratom I was surprised to find that I had a lot of flat out inaccurate memories that I whole heartedly believed.(Videos can clear things up these days; but there was a time long ago.....mini rant averted) Sometimes I even had nod-dreams that were so vivid that I would remember them like memories. These chemicals fuck with you on such a base level.
 
I always though bupe was garbage compared to methadone for chronic pain. It is a partial agonist and methadone is a full agonist, so that should be the end of the argument right there.

i would take hydrocodone over bupe any day of the week for pain also.

bupe never seemed like it gave analgesia in line with the "high" i would feel of a given dose, ie where i attained that same "high" from lets say oxy, the analgesia in the oxy would far surpass the bupe even though i was experience the same "high"
 
Interesting.In here Temgesic 0.4mg is used for painkiller and my doctor said that 1.2mg is max when used in painkiller.
I have nerve pain from busted up spine and that dose is enough for me to numb the pain.I can still feel the pain but i just dont care about it.
I can do full day of work with that dose and get great sleep when i take 300mg Lyrica and 100mg Norflex for the night,that dose pretty much take all the pain away.
Exactly! I too dose gaba-P and have my pain reduced to where I can function, and even feel no pain during the active part of the day when I am dosing most frequently!

Be careful requesting a bump and going up to 8mg. Suboxone is indeed good for pain killing but I find going higher in dose doesn't really help that aspect of it. You'll be raising your tolerance for no reason. It's as good as methadone for me as well but it doesn't have the floaty feel of morphine either. Both methadone and suboxone also put you in a bit of mind fog that you don't realize you're experiencing until you quit using them. When you're on them daily you think they aren't affecting you like classic opioids but upon quitting it's obvious that you've been sedated. They really screw with mental clarity.
I hear ya on the caution needed. I feel like an extra dose would be nice for days like today, when I had to swallow my dose after 10 minutes because of work. I can see how after taking any dose for a year or so, it all evens out and you prob get the same relief at 6 mg as you would at 16. Yeah, they prob affect me more than I know, but then agin I'm someone who acted like nothing was happening the time I took dxm and sudafed and saw my face become the devil in the mirror ;)
^ This is sooo true. Not to hijack the thread or anything but this is, in my opinion ,one of the least talked about problems with opioid use long term. When I switched from pst to kratom I was surprised to find that I had a lot of flat out inaccurate memories that I whole heartedly believed.(Videos can clear things up these days; but there was a time long ago.....mini rant averted) Sometimes I even had nod-dreams that were so vivid that I would remember them like memories. These chemicals fuck with you on such a base level.
Right before you fall asleep or take a nap, you realize as you lay there that your body is floating up in the clouds.
I always though bupe was garbage compared to methadone for chronic pain. It is a partial agonist and methadone is a full agonist, so that should be the end of the argument right there.

i would take hydrocodone over bupe any day of the week for pain also.

bupe never seemed like it gave analgesia in line with the "high" i would feel of a given dose, ie where i attained that same "high" from lets say oxy, the analgesia in the oxy would far surpass the bupe even though i was experience the same "high"
Yeah, I don't know why it's working so well for me when so many on BL have posted that it is crap for pain!? But it's good, and I rarely have to visit the doc for refills, so it's the bomb-diggity :) No bullshit hassle, constant urine screens that are always clean etc...
 
I have a very high tolerance because I was in hospice on an extreme amount of narcotics you wouldn't believe me if i told you and after reviewing all my history several doctors concur i will have to be on methadone for the rest of my life. This is unfortunate, but they were just trying to make me more comfortable as i was told i had 12 to 18 months left and was confined to a hospital bed 24/7 at home. I've been on almost every single legal opioid in the US and i can definitely say that suboxone/subutex never worked for pain for me, it was only effective for managing withdrawal and slowly coming off opioids, that was before hospice, afterwards, the max dose of 8mg 3x per day did next to nothing and I was in acute withdrawal. Now, I'm on 60mg of methadone 4x a day and 8mg of dilaudid 6x a day which is about 5% of the narcotics I was on in hospice, it was very difficult to do as my hospice dr retired and I had to go down very fast. But as far as the analgesia of buprenorphine to methadone, it doesnt compare at all...they are using methadone to treat cancer pain now, and they used to make a 40mg wafers and patients used to be on 700-800mg per day, like 20 years ago anyway. (Stopped making the 40mg ones like 6 or 7 years go) But methadone is the best medication for me in so many ways....as a painkiller (despite its half life it only works for pain for 6 to 8 hours, which is what the dr at a methadone clinic told me years ago and said I needed to be in pain management, I just moved back to California a week ago, I was in Arizona for a couple months then Laughlin Nevada for a couple months then las vegas for over a year, and it was as complete nightmare, i had to be hospitalized about 25 times because no doctor would manage my tolerance and I would have grand mal and tonic clonic seizures, I had one right in front of a nurse practitioner in a pain drs office once just before I was about to get my prescriptions and they called an ambulance & sent me back to the hospital.....like no one prescribes methadone there & they had me on 200mg of mscontin twice a day and that sucked compared to the methadone.....anyway, those are my 2 cents, I dont come on here often I was looking up something but couldn't find it oh well, but if anyone has any questions about anything, I've been prescribed everything except onsolis, kadian, and exalgo...well I was prescribed kadian and exalgo but my insurance wouldn't cover it and it was in the 4 digits lol, kadian is a 24 hr time release morphine, exalgo is a 24 hr time release dilaudid, and onsolis is one of the instant release fentanyl medications, the only one I was never put on because it needs a special delivery company paperwork filled out and a bunch of xtra stuff that the other instant release fentanyl products (lazanda, fentora, actiq, abstral, subsys, etc didnt need) u gotta be really sick to get your insurance to pay for those too, otherwise they are ridiculously expensive, lazanda is the most effective painkiller I've ever had, but it costs like 50 grand a month if you're not sick enough to warrant your insurance prescribing it)
 
the max dose of 8mg 3x per day did next to nothing
I wonder what .3 mg IV would have done for ya!? Bupe is pretty damn rad in small doses in my experience. I don't IV, but I continue to find that low dose sub competes neck and neck with my previous dose of methadone, which was 5 mg 3X daily. Today I took 2mg once and 1mg twice, and I noticed the pain relief is just as good at 1 mg!!! It's a bizarre med for sure. I have noticed that tiny doses actually do create powerful analgesia.

That being said...you're right, methadone is THE SHIT! I loved taking it because it was virtually 100% effective at killing my pain. Until the end of the day that is. My last 5 mg dose was usually at 1pm or so and by 8 I was starting to ache. My experience with sub is similar, however, because the docs are more liberal in dosing, I have enough to take a night dose too!
 
I have a very high tolerance because I was in hospice on an extreme amount of narcotics you wouldn't believe me if i told you and after reviewing all my history several doctors concur i will have to be on methadone for the rest of my life. This is unfortunate, but they were just trying to make me more comfortable as i was told i had 12 to 18 months left and was confined to a hospital bed 24/7 at home. I've been on almost every single legal opioid in the US and i can definitely say that suboxone/subutex never worked for pain for me, it was only effective for managing withdrawal and slowly coming off opioids, that was before hospice, afterwards, the max dose of 8mg 3x per day did next to nothing and I was in acute withdrawal. Now, I'm on 60mg of methadone 4x a day and 8mg of dilaudid 6x a day which is about 5% of the narcotics I was on in hospice, it was very difficult to do as my hospice dr retired and I had to go down very fast. But as far as the analgesia of buprenorphine to methadone, it doesnt compare at all...they are using methadone to treat cancer pain now, and they used to make a 40mg wafers and patients used to be on 700-800mg per day, like 20 years ago anyway. (Stopped making the 40mg ones like 6 or 7 years go) But methadone is the best medication for me in so many ways....as a painkiller (despite its half life it only works for pain for 6 to 8 hours, which is what the dr at a methadone clinic told me years ago and said I needed to be in pain management, I just moved back to California a week ago, I was in Arizona for a couple months then Laughlin Nevada for a couple months then las vegas for over a year, and it was as complete nightmare, i had to be hospitalized about 25 times because no doctor would manage my tolerance and I would have grand mal and tonic clonic seizures, I had one right in front of a nurse practitioner in a pain drs office once just before I was about to get my prescriptions and they called an ambulance & sent me back to the hospital.....like no one prescribes methadone there & they had me on 200mg of mscontin twice a day and that sucked compared to the methadone.....anyway, those are my 2 cents, I dont come on here often I was looking up something but couldn't find it oh well, but if anyone has any questions about anything, I've been prescribed everything except onsolis, kadian, and exalgo...well I was prescribed kadian and exalgo but my insurance wouldn't cover it and it was in the 4 digits lol, kadian is a 24 hr time release morphine, exalgo is a 24 hr time release dilaudid, and onsolis is one of the instant release fentanyl medications, the only one I was never put on because it needs a special delivery company paperwork filled out and a bunch of xtra stuff that the other instant release fentanyl products (lazanda, fentora, actiq, abstral, subsys, etc didnt need) u gotta be really sick to get your insurance to pay for those too, otherwise they are ridiculously expensive, lazanda is the most effective painkiller I've ever had, but it costs like 50 grand a month if you're not sick enough to warrant your insurance prescribing it)

thats quite a story. I'm glad you are able to get the right amount of opioids in this opioid epidemic climate. I can imagine you've been through some awful abuse and mistreatment though. I wouldn't mind hearing the worst things as far as not getting your meds that have happened to you.
 
thats quite a story. I'm glad you are able to get the right amount of opioids in this opioid epidemic climate. I can imagine you've been through some awful abuse and mistreatment though. I wouldn't mind hearing the worst things as far as not getting your meds that have happened to you.
Agreed! And what's it like to be on about a gram of methadone a day :) ? I wouldn't mind a quarter gram maself lol.
 
Buprenorphine combined with THC and gabapentin has the same analgesia as methadone/duragesic etc. Insufflated it is even superior in some ways. I am settling into a routine of taking 1mg 4 times daily, and my painful spondylosis is kept at bay while I go through my long work days (ok, I do tend to go home for naps mid day,lol). That's the other thing. Bupe will take you to the dreamy dream land I think others call "Nod". You just have to lay down and close your eyes. Which reminds me ;) good night blue light comrades.
 
Very nice that Buprenorphine is holding down your chronic pain CfZrx!
I am glad to hear it!

I was wondering how that stuff worked for pain.
I live with severe chronic pain and it does make me feel better that if worst came to worst, buprenorphine actually has some analgesic abilities.

Sounds like it made your quality of life much better also! That is nice to hear!
Well done for finding a solution for yourself.

❤️
 
it does make me feel better that if worst came to worst, buprenorphine actually has some analgesic abilities.
Hi Painful One,
are you somewhat concerned that your doctor may cancel your subscription any time? Yes, bupe is cool. So much less restrictions and hassle. We might as well ride the wave before they decide it's part of the problem and take that away too.
 
I sure in the hell hope they don't get rid of bupe. It really was a god send for me a handful of years ago, really helped me climb out of a deep hole I was digging for myself.

Some people argue bupe is shit for anything other than quick tapers because the withdrawals from bupe are worse since they last so much longer than stuff like oxy or heroin. I don't agree. I didn't find the withdrawals to be that bad, did a long slow ass taper over 2 years and then gently jumped off. I felt shitty for a couple weeks but it was manageable. I dunno, maybe I was just lucky though?

But yea, I hope they never take bupe away. In fact, I hope they end up bringing bupe and methadone analogues and/or other similar options to the table. Methadone and buprenorphine cannot be the only reasonable options for either/both maintenance and long acting pain killers.
 
Hi Painful One,
are you somewhat concerned that your doctor may cancel your subscription any time? Yes, bupe is cool. So much less restrictions and hassle. We might as well ride the wave before they decide it's part of the problem and take that away too.

Hi CfZrx,

I am not concerned that my doctor I have now and have had for the past ten years is going to cancel my prescription but he is less and less at his office and looks like he is going to retire. IDK, he is old and I am worried about loosing him. I'm worried about loosing all of the older doctors actually. They are the only ones who seem to have been educated properly in pain management.

I figure if worst comes to worst then I will claim "addicted" status and at least get the bupe.
Honestly, I would have to take a bullet if I ever got cut off pain medication at this point.

The bupe is apparently stronger than morphine huh? I'm using morphine for pain.
I need that numbing factor that morphine has.

Let us hope they don't take anything away and give people more options! This war on drugs has gotten too ridiculous!!

Hope everyone is comfortable today!
 
The bupe is apparently stronger than morphine huh?
Well, my pain is a grinding endless arthritis pain more or less, with pinched nerve as well plus more (lol/boo-hoo), and the suboxone takes care of it, or at least the gabapentin/bupe combo is doing the trick. Hard to say because I never took Sub without Gabapentin. But I'm just taking everyones advice for now and sticking to about 4mg/day. Maybe one day I will try a higher dose and see if thee is any extra pain relief, however I bet all the side effects would be worse, and I've never had constipation like this.

By the way, for all who are constipated: Try psyllium husk, usually found in the bulk section at the Co-op type store. 1 tsp tossed n washed with h2o has me regular, although Im too constipated to even consider plugging! This sucks because Ive heard Sub is best plugged ;) I even bought a cool "lube shooter" to plug painlessly and without wasting any like the oral syringes can at times!
 
∆ God do wish that there was illicit or analogue methadone market. We really need a long acting full agonist that can't kill you with 1 mg dosing mistake on the black market
 
Is Suboxone really a better painkiller than most, or does the antidepressant effect just make up for what it lacks in analgesia when consumed sublingually? Hmm.
 
Today took 2mg X3 Sub plus gabapentin and was pain free. Highly underrated, sub is.
 
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