Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ and Megathread v.1; 2007 - 2010

[Captain.Heroin]

I'm not sure about bk-mdma use while on Suboxone, but I'm sure it's possible.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Thread version 1.0
Thread version 2.0
Thread version 3.0
Thread Version 4.0

What: Suboxone = buprenorphine/naloxone. Bupe is a partial agonist(mu) and antagonist(kappa). Bupe has higher mu affinity that most opiates, including some antagonists(naloxone, naltrexone). Its higher affinity allows you to shoot suboxone tablets. It also may cause precipitated withdrawals if you are dependant on other opiates. Also, its higher affinity blocks the affects of other opiates when taken in conjunction with bupe.

Dose: Depends on tolerance. 1-2mgs is a typical recreational dose for someone with no tolerance. If you're using bupe to taper off of another opiate, you should dose once you're experiencing wd's(typically 36-48 hrs. for most opiates). Start with 2-4mgs and dose at 2mg increments every 30-45minutes until a dose holds you. Most people take their full dose once a day.

Withdrawal: Typical physical and psychological symptoms associated with opiate withdrawal. Insomnia, chills, diarrhea, depression, anxiety, lacrimation, sweating, increased heart rate, etc. They are not as strong as a full agonist's symptoms, but may last longer. Physical symptoms last 1-2 weeks on average and psychological symptoms may last months.

As most opiates, it's recommended to taper down to the lowest dose possible before stopping. <1mg is ideal. The best way to dose at that level is to crush up a tablet and divide the powder into lower doses.

Ceiling: 24-32mgs

Bioavailability:

Buprenorphine bioavailabilities:

intravenous: 98%-100%

intranasal: 50%
"Studies of buprenorphine bioavailability have also examined the [...] intranasal (bioavailability, 48%)
"The bioavailability of buprenorphine, HCl (BPP) in sheep after nasal administration of two formulations has been studied. 0.9 mg BPP in 150 microl was administered nasally and compared to 0.6 mg i.v. The test solutions were formulated with 30% polyethylene glycol 300 (PEG 300) and 5% dextrose, respectively. The bioavailability for PEG 300 was 70% (S.D.+/-27%, n=6), whereas the bioavailability for 5% dextrose was 89% (S.D.+/-23%, n=6)."
"Mean intranasal bioavailability was 48.2 +/- 8.35% (mean +/- s.e.m.) of the intravenous value"

intramuscular: 68%
"The observed mean intramuscular bioavailability was 68%"
"Studies of buprenorphine bioavailability have also examined the intramuscular (bioavailability, 50%–100%)"

intrarectal: 54%
"bioavailability of the drug was found to be: [... ]intrarectal (54%)..."
"Relative to the 100% bioavailability from the intraarterial route the mean bioavailabilities were [...] intrarectal, 54%..."

sublingual: ~30%
"Buprenorphine is well absorbed sublingually, with 60% to 70% of the bioavailability of intravenous doses"
"Study results indicate that bioavailability of sublingual buprenorphine is approximately 30%"
"Literature on bioavailability of sublingual buprenorphine presents variable numbers ranging from. 19–58% of the administered dose."
"Relative to the 100% bioavailability from the intraarterial route the mean bioavailabilities were [...] sublingual, 13%"

oral: 10%
"the oral bioavailability for buprenorphine is state to be 10%"
"due to extensive first-pass metabolism, buprenorphine has very poor oral bioavailability (10% of the intravenous route) if swallowed"

intrahepatoportal: 49%

intraduodenal: 9.7%

Other Notes:

• Bupe is CIII in the US.
• Metabolized by CYP3A4(see potentiation thread for potentiators).
• Half-life: 37 hours.
• Drug tests: Not detected by regular 5 panel tests.
• A interesting thread by 'medicine cabinet' about a new version of Suboxone that's currently being tested can be found here.
• Buprenorphine gets metabolized into norbuprenorphine and into conjugated buprenorphine and norbuprenorphine.
• Severe opiate withdrawal in a heroin user precipitated by a massive buprenorphine dose
• Bupe half-life charts- courtesy of Motts
• Clinical Guidelines for the Use of Buprenorphine in the Treatment of Opioid Addiction. -courtesy of thugpassion

Images:

Subutex

Suboxone

I couldn't find photos of Tamgesic, and Buprenex just comes in vials

Locate a doctor that prescribes Suboxone.

Suboxone Assistance Program - Free Suboxone for Low Income Patients

 

[Jabberwocky]

Q: How long after my last bupe dose can I take an opiate and feel its effects?
A: It depends on what dose of bupe you were taking and how long. The short answer is 36-48 hours. Caution should be used when dosing, as you will still have a tolerance but it will not be as high as it was when you first got on bupe.

Q: Is bupe a good replacement for methadone?
A: Maybe. Some people with a high enough opiate tolerance may not be held by bupe at any level, even at the highest(ceiling) possible dose. You should research both before deciding what to go on, as they both have different positives and negatives in regards to their use.

Q: I'm thinking about switching from methadone to bupe. At what methadone dose should I be when I switch?
A: Most places recommend being at 30-40mgs of methadone when switching. That may be hard to achieve since that level is lower than the recommended therapeutic maintenance level. Also, you'd have to wait 36-48 hours before your last methadone dose to switch in order to avoid precipitated withdrawal

Q: Will I still have cravings on bupe?
A: Maybe. Some people report no cravings, while others report the same level as before.

Q: Is bupe good for depression/anxiety?
A: Yes, it may help with depression and anxiety. It is not currently prescribed for either and its effectiveness has not been studied for long term use for either. You may be able to get it prescribed off label for depression/anxiety, but its not likely to happen. Here is an article on PubMed about a study on bupe being used to treat depression.

Q: Is it safe to shoot Suboxone/Subutex?
A: No. It can cause many of the same complications as shooting other pills. Just because Suboxone/Subutex dissolves easily, unlike other pills, does not mean it's any safer to to shoot. The best advice is to use a micron filter. This* is a good indication of what can happen. (Although that could happen from injecting any other drug/pill.)

Q: Is bupe recreational?
A: Yes. Although it is rarely the preferred opiate for people who have experience with full mu agonists.

Q: Can you overdose on buprenorphine?
A: Yes you can. Buprenorphine causes respiratory depression which may lead to death. The person most likely to OD on bupe has a low(if any) tolerance to opiates and may have taken another depressant. A buprenorphine overdose may not be reversed by naloxone(or naltrexone for that matter) due to bupe's higher affinity. Diprenorphine may reverse the overdose, but it is not regularly stocked by emergency personnel or hospitals. If a proper antagonist isn't available, the person suffering an overdose may be maintained with assisted respiration.

Q: Can I still get high on other opiates if I'm on bupe?
A: This depends on what dose of bupe you're on. You will most likely be able to shoot through a low dose of bupe(1-2mgs). But, don't expect the full effects of the opiate you're shooting through with. Even at higher doses, if you take enough of the opiate you may feel it. This is not recommended, as you may overdose before reaching the desired recreational effects.

*Link to article provided by hfrs in a different thread

 

[Jabberwocky]

There has been some confusion with information regarding suboxone/buprenorphine because some are using the drug for different purposes. Most of the information provided pertains to using suboxone/buprenorphine as a maintenance aid for opiate dependency. This information sometimes goes against the suggested information for using suboxone/burprenorphine as a recreational drug.

This time around, Im going to add a quick FAQ to help users of this drug figure out what is what. The OD guidelines say we will not help anyone abuse maintenance programs, but I think its important to answer a few basic questions about recreational suboxone/buprenorphine in an effort to reduce harm when, inevitably, someone decides to use it recreationally. For example, a recreational dose is going to be significantly smaller than a maintenance dose. I think its important to make that clear.

So, here it is. The quick "Recreational Basics of Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ."


Can Suboxone or Buprenorphine be used recreationally?

Yes, it can, but not for everyone. One thing you must consider to figure out if you can use this drug recreationally is your tolerance. Someone who is addicted to opiates or has a very high tolerance to them will not be able to get high off of this drug. Typically, the only people who do get high from it are people who are relatively inexperienced with opiates.

If you are using suboxone or buprenorphine as a maintenance tool, you are not going to be able to get high from it, so its best not to even try. You'll run through your supply faster than normal with no beneficial gain.

How much do I need to take to get high from it?

This is an important thing to pay attention to. If you have read about subxoone/buprenorphine at all on Bluelight, you have probably noticed people taking about doses of 4mg or 6mg, or 8mg or 12mg, and sometimes even as high as 24mg or 32mg.

That is WAY too much for a recreational dose.

For someone who has little to no tolerance for opiates, a dose of 1mg or 2mg is more than enough.

What is the risk for ODing?

Even though suboxone/buprenorphine has less effect on the respiratory system, and has much less CNS depression compared to other opiates, the chance of OD is still there. This is why its important to start at as low of a dose as possible (1mg - 2mg). Because of buprenorphines high affinity to the opiate receptors, typical antagonists used to reverse OD's (naloxone and naltrexone) can not be used. There are antagonists that can reverse the OD, but hospitals wont know they are needed unless they are made aware that your OD has been caused by buprenorphine, and its going to be hard to make them aware when your unconscious, so be careful.

From v2.0 by 6/7.

 

[JahRed24x]

Captain Heroin ^ ... I usually take about 2mgs a day... I can lower my dosage pretty quickly but today i took around 4-6mgs... Why?? I have no idea... and yeah its 1:14am and i just snorted another 2mgs.. its pointless, i know, it can cause insomnia, i know but i would of been awake alll night either way so why not try something different. god i just wish i had my temmies left or some amboz.......wait........omg i jjust realized i have got no ganja?! wtf am i doing, i need to go get st0ned.

 

[cj]

appiontment tommorow

Ok I have an appointment tommorow at 11:30am to get on suboxone. I did a shot of heroin tonight at 600 pm. If I get dosed at my appiontment am I going to go into precipatated withdrawls? What do you guys think I should do reschedule the appointment? Anyone have any experience with this also what shouid I expect from the appointment. BTW I dont have a huge heroin habit or anything in fact I only did 1 1/2 bags. thanks

 

[Jabberwocky]

you might feel some uncomfortable feelings though theyll subside reasonably quickly once the bupe has binded properly.

you might want to reschedule for the next day.

merged

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Captain Heroin ^ ... I usually take about 2mgs a day... I can lower my dosage pretty quickly but today i took around 4-6mgs... Why?? I have no idea... and yeah its 1:14am and i just snorted another 2mgs.. its pointless, i know, it can cause insomnia, i know but i would of been awake alll night either way so why not try something different. god i just wish i had my temmies left or some amboz.......wait........omg i jjust realized i have got no ganja?! wtf am i doing, i need to go get st0ned.

Sometimes I wait a while until I last dosed, then I just lie in bed until I find it possible to pass out.

At the moment, and as usual lately I'm up and it's 0315 here.

I also think maybe a smaller than usual dose might be better to get to sleep with. Like if you normally go for 2mg snorted, try 0.5mg snorted.

Hope my advice helped at all.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Ok I have an appointment tommorow at 11:30am to get on suboxone. I did a shot of heroin tonight at 600 pm. If I get dosed at my appiontment am I going to go into precipatated withdrawls? What do you guys think I should do reschedule the appointment? Anyone have any experience with this also what shouid I expect from the appointment. BTW I dont have a huge heroin habit or anything in fact I only did 1 1/2 bags. thanks

You should be OK, though 12-14 hours after your last dose isn't waiting too long, there is a good chance you won't get any sort of precipitated WD's.

 

[rolls_]

You should be OK, though 12-14 hours after your last dose isn't waiting too long, there is a good chance you won't get any sort of precipitated WD's.

Yep, usually they will start you on half your normal dose anyway to make sure they avoid precipitated withdrawals, then over the following days they will titrate your dose upwards until they find a dose which maintains you.

Your doctor will be well aware of this and will (well, they should) do their best to avoid precipitating withdrawal. The sooner you can get on sub the better so I would not skip the appointment.

 

[fistful_of_needles]

Ok I have an appointment tommorow at 11:30am to get on suboxone. I did a shot of heroin tonight at 600 pm. If I get dosed at my appiontment am I going to go into precipatated withdrawls? What do you guys think I should do reschedule the appointment? Anyone have any experience with this also what shouid I expect from the appointment. BTW I dont have a huge heroin habit or anything in fact I only did 1 1/2 bags. thanks

Just make sure you tell your doc that you have a small habit and try to talk him into not giving you anything above 8mg as induction ... judging by my personal experience anything between 2-6 mg Bupre 12 hours after your last H dose won't cause any type of discomfort or "precipitaded withdrawals"(whatever this may be since I've never experienced it on the Sub doses I take/took).Some people over here ,even docs, go as far as to advocate the use of Subutex BEFORE you start withdrawing and judging by its effects on me I partly agree with such approach ...no need to reschedule anything,you'll be just fine

 

[fistful_of_needles]

By the way guys ,since I'm rather new in here and was too lazy to go through the rules I was wondering whether it's ok for me to comment randomly on other people's posts or is this a role reserved for moderators only ... this may sound pretty idiotic but yeah ,my 1st time on any forum of the kind and I know next to 0 about inherent rules

 

[fistful_of_needles]

Captain Heroin ^ ... I usually take about 2mgs a day... I can lower my dosage pretty quickly but today i took around 4-6mgs... Why?? I have no idea... and yeah its 1:14am and i just snorted another 2mgs.. its pointless, i know, it can cause insomnia, i know but i would of been awake alll night either way so why not try something different. god i just wish i had my temmies left or some amboz.......wait........omg i jjust realized i have got no ganja?! wtf am i doing, i need to go get st0ned.

hahah , you sound pretty trashed even without the temmies etc , you've gotta try that bupre with a proper benzo like Dormicum,a few trams(already know you're not new to this combo) and some good quality solid/green to top it up ... then we'll discuss insomnia lol

 

[cire113]

dose bupe block oxy at low doses or what? or can they be mixed togehter to feel even better?

 

[Captain.Heroin]

By the way guys ,since I'm rather new in here and was too lazy to go through the rules I was wondering whether it's ok for me to comment randomly on other people's posts or is this a role reserved for moderators only ... this may sound pretty idiotic but yeah ,my 1st time on any forum of the kind and I know next to 0 about inherent rules

lol it's OK! You are welcome to comment on other people's posts.

You see me answering everyone's post because it's my part time job.

dose bupe block oxy at low doses or what? or can they be mixed togehter to feel even better?

If you are on 2mg or less of buprenorphine, it is possible to take oxycodone on top of it. It's up to you if you want to actually try it out or not.

 

[cire113]

after snorting 30mg of roxycodone i feel real good it seems the sub actually synergizes nicley at lower doses that dont block

 

[fistful_of_needles]

Hmmm , even on 2mg Bupre for some reason if I'm to do H (which I've done in the recent past) it simply does not hit me as it should and luckily enough after having tried to do Bupre(2mg) and H on the same day I eventually arrived to the conclusion that I was actually wasting both drugs by combining them ,thus not repeating the experience from that last day(months ago) onwards .Oh , and do not expect any other full agonist opiate to boost(or synergise with even) the effects of bupre as suggested in your post, quite the contrary actually .

 

[fistful_of_needles]

after snorting 30mg of roxycodone i feel real good it seems the sub actually synergizes nicley at lower doses that dont block

This is quite odd ,yet I know nothing about either roxycodone(we do not have those over here)or the severity of your habit , well , and just how much Sub you used before the roxy for that matter.

 

[Pegasus]

after snorting 30mg of roxycodone i feel real good it seems the sub actually synergizes nicley at lower doses that dont block

Yes, it certainly does take a larger dose to block.

 

[rolls_]

Im on 8mg of suboxone daily but I find if I dose poppy seed tea on top (1kg of washed seeds) I still get quite high, less sedation and duration but more stimulation than if I just did them on their own.

I'm using the sub to get clean though so I try my best not to do that.