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Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine Megathread and FAQ v5.0

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Jabberwocky

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Thread version 1.0
Thread version 2.0
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phrozen said:
What: Suboxone = buprenorphine/naloxone. Bupe is a partial agonist(mu) and antagonist(kappa). Bupe has higher mu affinity that most opiates, including some antagonists(naloxone, naltrexone). Its higher affinity allows you to shoot suboxone tablets. It also may cause precipitated withdrawals if you are dependant on other opiates. Also, its higher affinity blocks the affects of other opiates when taken in conjunction with bupe.

Dose: Depends on tolerance. 1-2mgs is a typical recreational dose for someone with no tolerance. If you're using bupe to taper off of another opiate, you should dose once you're experiencing wd's(typically 36-48 hrs. for most opiates). Start with 2-4mgs and dose at 2mg increments every 30-45minutes until a dose holds you. Most people take their full dose once a day.

Withdrawal: Typical physical and psychological symptoms associated with opiate withdrawal. Insomnia, chills, diarrhea, depression, anxiety, lacrimation, sweating, increased heart rate, etc. They are not as strong as a full agonist's symptoms, but may last longer. Physical symptoms last 1-2 weeks on average and psychological symptoms may last months.

As most opiates, it's recommended to taper down to the lowest dose possible before stopping. <1mg is ideal. The best way to dose at that level is to crush up a tablet and divide the powder into lower doses.

Ceiling: 24-32mgs

Bioavailability:
jasoncrest said:
Buprenorphine bioavailabilities:

intravenous: 98%-100%

intranasal: 50%
"Studies of buprenorphine bioavailability have also examined the [...] intranasal (bioavailability, 48%)
"The bioavailability of buprenorphine, HCl (BPP) in sheep after nasal administration of two formulations has been studied. 0.9 mg BPP in 150 microl was administered nasally and compared to 0.6 mg i.v. The test solutions were formulated with 30% polyethylene glycol 300 (PEG 300) and 5% dextrose, respectively. The bioavailability for PEG 300 was 70% (S.D.+/-27%, n=6), whereas the bioavailability for 5% dextrose was 89% (S.D.+/-23%, n=6)."
"Mean intranasal bioavailability was 48.2 +/- 8.35% (mean +/- s.e.m.) of the intravenous value"


intramuscular: 68%
"The observed mean intramuscular bioavailability was 68%"
"Studies of buprenorphine bioavailability have also examined the intramuscular (bioavailability, 50%–100%)"


intrarectal: 54%
"bioavailability of the drug was found to be: [... ]intrarectal (54%)..."
"Relative to the 100% bioavailability from the intraarterial route the mean bioavailabilities were [...] intrarectal, 54%..."

sublingual: ~30%
"Buprenorphine is well absorbed sublingually, with 60% to 70% of the bioavailability of intravenous doses"
"Study results indicate that bioavailability of sublingual buprenorphine is approximately 30%"
"Literature on bioavailability of sublingual buprenorphine presents variable numbers ranging from. 19–58% of the administered dose."

"Relative to the 100% bioavailability from the intraarterial route the mean bioavailabilities were [...] sublingual, 13%"

oral: 10%
"the oral bioavailability for buprenorphine is state to be 10%"
"due to extensive first-pass metabolism, buprenorphine has very poor oral bioavailability (10% of the intravenous route) if swallowed"


intrahepatoportal: 49%

intraduodenal: 9.7%


Other Notes:


Images:

Subutex


Suboxone

I couldn't find photos of Tamgesic, and Buprenex just comes in vials

Locate a doctor that prescribes Suboxone.

Suboxone Assistance Program - Free Suboxone for Low Income Patients
 
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Jabberwocky

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Q: How long after my last bupe dose can I take an opiate and feel its effects?
A: It depends on what dose of bupe you were taking and how long. The short answer is 36-48 hours. Caution should be used when dosing, as you will still have a tolerance but it will not be as high as it was when you first got on bupe.

Q: Is bupe a good replacement for methadone?
A: Maybe. Some people with a high enough opiate tolerance may not be held by bupe at any level, even at the highest(ceiling) possible dose. You should research both before deciding what to go on, as they both have different positives and negatives in regards to their use.

Q: I'm thinking about switching from methadone to bupe. At what methadone dose should I be when I switch?
A: Most places recommend being at 30-40mgs of methadone when switching. That may be hard to achieve since that level is lower than the recommended therapeutic maintenance level. Also, you'd have to wait 36-48 hours before your last methadone dose to switch in order to avoid precipitated withdrawal

Q: Will I still have cravings on bupe?
A: Maybe. Some people report no cravings, while others report the same level as before.

Q: Is bupe good for depression/anxiety?
A: Yes, it may help with depression and anxiety. It is not currently prescribed for either and its effectiveness has not been studied for long term use for either. You may be able to get it prescribed off label for depression/anxiety, but its not likely to happen. Here is an article on PubMed about a study on bupe being used to treat depression.

Q: Is it safe to shoot Suboxone/Subutex?
A: No. It can cause many of the same complications as shooting other pills. Just because Suboxone/Subutex dissolves easily, unlike other pills, does not mean it's any safer to to shoot. The best advice is to use a micron filter. This* is a good indication of what can happen. (Although that could happen from injecting any other drug/pill.)

Q: Is bupe recreational?
A: Yes. Although it is rarely the preferred opiate for people who have experience with full mu agonists.

Q: Can you overdose on buprenorphine?
A: Yes you can. Buprenorphine causes respiratory depression which may lead to death. The person most likely to OD on bupe has a low(if any) tolerance to opiates and may have taken another depressant. A buprenorphine overdose may not be reversed by naloxone(or naltrexone for that matter) due to bupe's higher affinity. Diprenorphine may reverse the overdose, but it is not regularly stocked by emergency personnel or hospitals. If a proper antagonist isn't available, the person suffering an overdose may be maintained with assisted respiration.

Q: Can I still get high on other opiates if I'm on bupe?
A: This depends on what dose of bupe you're on. You will most likely be able to shoot through a low dose of bupe(1-2mgs). But, don't expect the full effects of the opiate you're shooting through with. Even at higher doses, if you take enough of the opiate you may feel it. This is not recommended, as you may overdose before reaching the desired recreational effects.

*Link to article provided by hfrs in a different thread
 

Jabberwocky

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There has been some confusion with information regarding suboxone/buprenorphine because some are using the drug for different purposes. Most of the information provided pertains to using suboxone/buprenorphine as a maintenance aid for opiate dependency. This information sometimes goes against the suggested information for using suboxone/burprenorphine as a recreational drug.

This time around, Im going to add a quick FAQ to help users of this drug figure out what is what. The OD guidelines say we will not help anyone abuse maintenance programs, but I think its important to answer a few basic questions about recreational suboxone/buprenorphine in an effort to reduce harm when, inevitably, someone decides to use it recreationally. For example, a recreational dose is going to be significantly smaller than a maintenance dose. I think its important to make that clear.

So, here it is. The quick "Recreational Basics of Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ."


Can Suboxone or Buprenorphine be used recreationally?

Yes, it can, but not for everyone. One thing you must consider to figure out if you can use this drug recreationally is your tolerance. Someone who is addicted to opiates or has a very high tolerance to them will not be able to get high off of this drug. Typically, the only people who do get high from it are people who are relatively inexperienced with opiates.

If you are using suboxone or buprenorphine as a maintenance tool, you are not going to be able to get high from it, so its best not to even try. You'll run through your supply faster than normal with no beneficial gain.

How much do I need to take to get high from it?

This is an important thing to pay attention to. If you have read about subxoone/buprenorphine at all on Bluelight, you have probably noticed people taking about doses of 4mg or 6mg, or 8mg or 12mg, and sometimes even as high as 24mg or 32mg.

That is WAY too much for a recreational dose.

For someone who has little to no tolerance for opiates, a dose of 1mg or 2mg is more than enough.

What is the risk for ODing?

Even though suboxone/buprenorphine has less effect on the respiratory system, and has much less CNS depression compared to other opiates, the chance of OD is still there. This is why its important to start at as low of a dose as possible (1mg - 2mg). Because of buprenorphines high affinity to the opiate receptors, typical antagonists used to reverse OD's (naloxone and naltrexone) can not be used. There are antagonists that can reverse the OD, but hospitals wont know they are needed unless they are made aware that your OD has been caused by buprenorphine, and its going to be hard to make them aware when your unconscious, so be careful.
From v2.0 by 6/7.
 

Captain.Heroin

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Naloxone in Suboxone is Inert

With any ROA (route of administration), naloxone is inert within Suboxone. This means, with either Subutex or Suboxone, you can use any ROA and not have "immediate withdrawal" as a result of using a different ROA.

Precipitated withdrawal occurs as a result of taking buprenorphine too soon after having a short acting opiate in your system. The buprenorphine is what will out compete the mu-opioid receptor, not the naloxone.

Buprenorphine itself will out compete naloxone for the mu-opioid receptor, rendering it essentially inert.
 

fistful_of_needles

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I was looking at those pics of Suboxone above and wondering why the hell is Suboxone orange in the US .Before I DEMANDED lol of my doc to put me on Subutex instead I was on the former for the odd month and it was white just as Subutex(the shape being exactly the same as in the US though as far as I can recall) ...Same with methadone being green (wtf) in the UK while I was there,the metha we have over here looks just like water and tastes like hell.
 

Captain.Heroin

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I was looking at those pics of Suboxone above and wondering why the hell is Suboxone orange in the US .Before I DEMANDED lol of my doc to put me on Subutex instead I was on the former for the odd month and it was white just as Subutex(the shape being exactly the same as in the US though as far as I can recall) ...Same with methadone being green (wtf) in the UK while I was there,the metha we have over here looks just like water and tastes like hell.
I dunno why it's orange in the states. I guess someone thought us ex heroin addicts like the taste of lemon/lime. They were grossly misinformed.
 

Captain.Heroin

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the orange does remind me of the cap of an insulin syringe
Yeah, it kind of does.

I really hate that Suboxone is flavored the way it is. It's convenient that it's colored, but it's completely unnecessary.
 

isoteric

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Suboxone!!

So after going to an addiction specialist to get away from my opiate problem, I was prescribed suboxone. My addiction wasn't nearly as bad as some, or even more for that matter. Anyway, I read up on taking the subs IV, and after researching and reading other various threads on here about it, I decided that it would be worth a try and wow... that's pretty much all I can say. Before I was going back and forth between roxies (30 mil) and Heroin, rougly 35 units a dose. I'm not sure if it was the fact that I was taking relatively low doses or what the exact reasoning was, but the injection of the suboxone went amazingly well. I started with two miligrams like the doctor told me to, and then an hour later I took another 2 miligrams, and all I can say is that it's amazing. It's damn near better than the heroin, and to top it off, it lasts longer. This bs about the naloxene, total crap. It did nothing, and to top it off, the subs made me feel fantastic. Total body buzz, nice warm feeling, just all around great. And yes, I know the whole idea of the subs are to get you away from doing the drugs and get rid of your addiction, but to be honest, I don't really want to quit. I enjoy the hell out of my opiates, always have, always will, and this is not only legal, it also takes so little to get the high that I get that it's waaaay more cost effecient than any of the other opiates, even at 7 dollars a pill. So anyway, I just wanted to post that for anyone that was curiouse about taking subs intraveiniously. If you really want to quit, take them the right way, please, for yourself and everyone that you care and love for, but if you don't want to give up your high and you want a much safer way to go about getting, these are your guys. I'm sure I'll get flamed on many levels for this post, but I wanted to put it out there for anyone that was truly curious about it like myself. So have fun, be as safe as you can, and please if you think you can't do it without getting so far that you truly endager your health or freedom, get help and take the help the way you're supposed to, don't be like me!!
 

Captain.Heroin

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So after going to an addiction specialist to get away from my opiate problem, I was prescribed suboxone. My addiction wasn't nearly as bad as some, or even more for that matter. Anyway, I read up on taking the subs IV, and after researching and reading other various threads on here about it, I decided that it would be worth a try and wow... that's pretty much all I can say. Before I was going back and forth between roxies (30 mil) and Heroin, rougly 35 units a dose. I'm not sure if it was the fact that I was taking relatively low doses or what the exact reasoning was, but the injection of the suboxone went amazingly well. I started with two miligrams like the doctor told me to, and then an hour later I took another 2 miligrams, and all I can say is that it's amazing. It's damn near better than the heroin, and to top it off, it lasts longer. This bs about the naloxene, total crap. It did nothing, and to top it off, the subs made me feel fantastic. Total body buzz, nice warm feeling, just all around great. And yes, I know the whole idea of the subs are to get you away from doing the drugs and get rid of your addiction, but to be honest, I don't really want to quit. I enjoy the hell out of my opiates, always have, always will, and this is not only legal, it also takes so little to get the high that I get that it's waaaay more cost effecient than any of the other opiates, even at 7 dollars a pill. So anyway, I just wanted to post that for anyone that was curiouse about taking subs intraveiniously. If you really want to quit, take them the right way, please, for yourself and everyone that you care and love for, but if you don't want to give up your high and you want a much safer way to go about getting, these are your guys. I'm sure I'll get flamed on many levels for this post, but I wanted to put it out there for anyone that was truly curious about it like myself. So have fun, be as safe as you can, and please if you think you can't do it without getting so far that you truly endager your health or freedom, get help and take the help the way you're supposed to, don't be like me!!
Thanks for the feedback.

I use 0.16mg per IV does, so maybe you should taper down. Most of the positive effects with IV bupe will still be there once you taper down. After you drop to the next step it'll take a while for your body to adjust but it's a step in the right direction and I tend to get higher with a lower buprenorphine dose.
 

Eight0Eight

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The generic subutex pills are the best if you're into IV - captain H.

They are literally a tiny fraction of the size of name brand subutex/suboxone - basical just 8mg temgesics.

The filter really easily.
 

Captain.Heroin

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The generic subutex pills are the best if you're into IV - captain H.

They are literally a tiny fraction of the size of name brand subutex/suboxone - basical just 8mg temgesics.

The filter really easily.
That's really cool! My doctor doesn't think Subutex exists at all though, it'll be hard to say "hey can I try the generic subutex?" "Subutex, what is that? There's no generic to a drug they haven't invented!" That's probably what he would say.

Plus IVing Suboxone is really easy.

The larger size is an ADVANTAGE for me with Suboxone. Once I get micron filters it won't matter what kind I get, it'll all be buprenorphine in water.

However, when I'm breaking up piles of powder, the more powder, the more accurate I am. If I had less powder to work with, the overall amounts of powder in the piles I make when I split up a 2mg into piles would be much smaller, that means they would be less accurate since I have less room for error.

I'm just fine with name brand Suboxone and have no problem being on it. It IV's fine, and at the moment I don't filter.
 
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