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Suboxone/Buprenorphine Megathread and FAQ v3.0

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phr

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Thread version 1.0
Thread version 2.0

phrozen said:
What: Suboxone = buprenorphine/naloxone. Bupe is a partial agonist(mu) and antagonist(kappa). Bupe has higher mu affinity that most opiates, including some antagonists(naloxone, naltrexone). Its higher affinity allows you to shoot suboxone tablets. It also may cause precipitated withdrawals if you are dependant on other opiates. Also, its higher affinity blocks the affects of other opiates when taken in conjunction with bupe.

Dose: Depends on tolerance. 1-2mgs is a typical recreational dose for someone with no tolerance. If you're using bupe to taper off of another opiate, you should dose once you're experiencing wd's(typically 36-48 hrs. for most opiates). Start with 2-4mgs and dose at 2mg increments every 30-45minutes until a dose holds you. Most people take their full dose once a day.

Withdrawal: Typical physical and psychological symptoms associated with opiate withdrawal. Insomnia, chills, diarrhea, depression, anxiety, lacrimation, sweating, increased heart rate, etc. They are not as strong as a full agonist's symptoms, but may last longer. Physical symptoms last 1-2 weeks on average and psychological symptoms may last months.

As most opiates, it's recommended to taper down to the lowest dose possible before stopping. <1mg is ideal. The best way to dose at that level is to crush up a tablet and divide the powder into lower doses.

Ceiling: 24-32mgs

Bioavailability:


Other Notes:


Images:

Subutex


Suboxone

I couldn't find photos of Tamgesic, and Buprenex just comes in vials

Locate a doctor that prescribes Suboxone.

Suboxone Assistance Program - Free Suboxone for Low Income Patients
 
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phr

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Q: How long after my last bupe dose can I take an opiate and feel its effects?
A: It depends on what dose of bupe you were taking and how long. The short answer is 36-48 hours. Caution should be used when dosing, as you will still have a tolerance but it will not be as high as it was when you first got on bupe.

Q: Is bupe a good replacement for methadone?
A: Maybe. Some people with a high enough opiate tolerance may not be held by bupe at any level, even at the highest(ceiling) possible dose. You should research both before deciding what to go on, as they both have different positives and negatives in regards to their use.

Q: I'm thinking about switching from methadone to bupe. At what methadone dose should I be when I switch?
A: Most places recommend being at 30-40mgs of methadone when switching. That may be hard to achieve since that level is lower than the recommended therapeutic maintenance level. Also, you'd have to wait 36-48 hours before your last methadone dose to switch in order to avoid precipitated withdrawal

Q: Will I still have cravings on bupe?
A: Maybe. Some people report no cravings, while others report the same level as before.

Q: Is bupe good for depression/anxiety?
A: Yes, it may help with depression and anxiety. It is not currently prescribed for either and its effectiveness has not been studied for long term use for either. You may be able to get it prescribed off label for depression/anxiety, but its not likely to happen. Here is an article on PubMed about a study on bupe being used to treat depression.

Q: Is it safe to shoot Suboxone/Subutex?
A: No. It can cause many of the same complications as shooting other pills. Just because Suboxone/Subutex dissolves easily, unlike other pills, does not mean it's any safer to to shoot. The best advice is to use a micron filter. This* is a good indication of what can happen. (Although that could happen from injecting any other drug/pill.)

Q: Is bupe recreational?
A: Yes. Although it is rarely the preferred opiate for people who have experience with full mu agonists.

Q: Can you overdose on buprenorphine?
A: Yes you can. Buprenorphine causes respiratory depression which may lead to death. The person most likely to OD on bupe has a low(if any) tolerance to opiates and may have taken another depressant. A buprenorphine overdose may not be reversed by naloxone(or naltrexone for that matter) due to bupe's higher affinity. Diprenorphine may reverse the overdose, but it is not regularly stocked by emergency personnel or hospitals. If a proper antagonist isn't available, the person suffering an overdose may be maintained with assisted respiration.

Q: Can I still get high on other opiates if I'm on bupe?
A: This depends on what dose of bupe you're on. You will most likely be able to shoot through a low dose of bupe(1-2mgs). But, don't expect the full effects of the opiate you're shooting through with. Even at higher doses, if you take enough of the opiate you may feel it. This is not recommended, as you may overdose before reaching the desired recreational effects.

*Link to article provided by hfrs in a different thread
 

phr

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There has been some confusion with information regarding suboxone/buprenorphine because some are using the drug for different purposes. Most of the information provided pertains to using suboxone/buprenorphine as a maintenance aid for opiate dependency. This information sometimes goes against the suggested information for using suboxone/burprenorphine as a recreational drug.

This time around, Im going to add a quick FAQ to help users of this drug figure out what is what. The OD guidelines say we will not help anyone abuse maintenance programs, but I think its important to answer a few basic questions about recreational suboxone/buprenorphine in an effort to reduce harm when, inevitably, someone decides to use it recreationally. For example, a recreational dose is going to be significantly smaller than a maintenance dose. I think its important to make that clear.

So, here it is. The quick "Recreational Basics of Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ."


Can Suboxone or Buprenorphine be used recreationally?

Yes, it can, but not for everyone. One thing you must consider to figure out if you can use this drug recreationally is your tolerance. Someone who is addicted to opiates or has a very high tolerance to them will not be able to get high off of this drug. Typically, the only people who do get high from it are people who are relatively inexperienced with opiates.

If you are using suboxone or buprenorphine as a maintenance tool, you are not going to be able to get high from it, so its best not to even try. You'll run through your supply faster than normal with no beneficial gain.

How much do I need to take to get high from it?

This is an important thing to pay attention to. If you have read about subxoone/buprenorphine at all on Bluelight, you have probably noticed people taking about doses of 4mg or 6mg, or 8mg or 12mg, and sometimes even as high as 24mg or 32mg.

That is WAY too much for a recreational dose.

For someone who has little to no tolerance for opiates, a dose of 1mg or 2mg is more than enough.

What is the risk for ODing?

Even though suboxone/buprenorphine has less effect on the respiratory system, and has much less CNS depression compared to other opiates, the chance of OD is still there. This is why its important to start at as low of a dose as possible (1mg - 2mg). Because of buprenorphines high affinity to the opiate receptors, typical antagonists used to reverse OD's (naloxone and naltrexone) can not be used. There are antagonists that can reverse the OD, but hospitals wont know they are needed unless they are made aware that your OD has been caused by buprenorphine, and its going to be hard to make them aware when your unconscious, so be careful.
From v2.0 by 6/7.
 

mebroken

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Q: Is it safe to shoot Suboxone/Subutex?
A: No. It can cause many of the same complications as shooting other pills. Just because Suboxone/Subutex dissolves easily, unlike other pills, does not mean it's any safer to to shoot. The best advice is to use a micron filter.

question?
i've done i bunch of searches on this forum for injecting bupe and all i can find is warnings about trying to shoot the pills (wouldn't). however i have liquid bupe that i'm planning on using this weekend to help with w/d's if my dr. doesn't refill my opiate rx tomorrow. that is fine to IV, rather than IM correct?
also curious why there is so little talk about liquid bupe around....no one uses this?
 

SWIM OPIATES

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The Truth About Suboxone Withdrawl

Ok i had been on suboxone for about 6 months. I came off of it about 8 days ago. Well let me break it down for you.

Day 1 - Feel like hell no sleep
Day 2 - Feel like hell no sleep
Day 3 - Feel like hell no sleep
Day 4 - Feel like hell no sleep
Day 5 - Feel a little better 7 hours of sleep
Day 6 - Feeling better 5 hours of sleep
Day 7 - Feel a little uncomfortable cold flash, hot flash etc. 5 hours of sleep
Day 8 - Just waking up right now, and i'm glad i have been throguh the worst


This is were i am so far, and i will vouch that the suboxone withdrawals are definitely longer than oxy contin, or heroin. I will be honest that the withdrawals are less mild, but i went for four nights without sleep which is horrible.
Although, on the other side of the coin i would not tell someone to not take it. It helped me out a lot. It gave me an opportunity to ditch all the people who i did drugs with since i couldn't get high on the suboxone.
I also jumped off at taking 4mg a day, from what i hear is high. Due to time constraints this was my only opportunity to do this.
The only thing i will attribute to helping me get throguh this is weed. Lots of it all day all night. It helps get rid of the hot and cold flashes, and also helps the restless legs as well.
 

phr

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Q: Is it safe to shoot Suboxone/Subutex?
A: No. It can cause many of the same complications as shooting other pills. Just because Suboxone/Subutex dissolves easily, unlike other pills, does not mean it's any safer to to shoot. The best advice is to use a micron filter.

question?
i've done i bunch of searches on this forum for injecting bupe and all i can find is warnings about trying to shoot the pills (wouldn't). however i have liquid bupe that i'm planning on using this weekend to help with w/d's if my dr. doesn't refill my opiate rx tomorrow. that is fine to IV, rather than IM correct?
also curious why there is so little talk about liquid bupe around....no one uses this?
It's uncommon in the US.

If it's meant for injection, meaning it's sterile and doesn't have things that an oral solution would have(sugars, coloring, flavor), you can iv it.
 

Captain.Heroin

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Q: Is it safe to shoot Suboxone/Subutex?
A: No. It can cause many of the same complications as shooting other pills. Just because Suboxone/Subutex dissolves easily, unlike other pills, does not mean it's any safer to to shoot. The best advice is to use a micron filter.

question?
i've done i bunch of searches on this forum for injecting bupe and all i can find is warnings about trying to shoot the pills (wouldn't). however i have liquid bupe that i'm planning on using this weekend to help with w/d's if my dr. doesn't refill my opiate rx tomorrow. that is fine to IV, rather than IM correct?
also curious why there is so little talk about liquid bupe around....no one uses this?
You sure can. It's not going to be the quickest onset for a drug, it might take a few minutes. However, the relief you get from buprenorphine while in WD is really nice.

I wouldn't expect to feel euphoric off of IV buprenorphine until your opiate tolerance is medium-low to low.

While IVing buprenorphine, you might find that re-dosing every few hours is effective. Try to stretch the time window as wide as you can for re-dosing because it's a very effective drug and can be administered in small doses two or three times a day very efficiently.

Let me know how it goes for you.
 

DiscoS

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Hey Caterva:

Sorry to hear about your troubles, but glad to hear that you want to quit. This should (will) prob be moved by mods to TDS forum.

I am not an expert on subs... just have my own experience getting off opiates 3+ weeks ago so I at least know what you're going through mentally and the fact that you are trying to find a balance between getting yourself clean while having that fear that we all have of being stigmatized as an "addict."

Three thoughts I can provide:

1. From my knowledge, in the US as long as you keep your medical insurance out of the picture, and do not tell another doctor you've been to a sub clinic (or the sub doc about your other doctors), there is no way anyone will know the truth.

I am not positive, but, if you pay upfront and don't use insurance, I don't even know if they would even have a way of confirming your identity.

2. If you are really worried about anonymity, and were only planning a short term sub program, maybe subs aren't the answer for you. You mentioned the problems with tapering with H due to size and potency, but you can avoid that if you tapered by just taking enough perc's or vic's to stay sane for a week. This obviously isn't a long term solution due to cost... but it could help you go CT from there.

3. More of a question... What's your long term plan for staying clean after your week long detox?

-DISCO
 

Tchort

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Methadone is no easier or harder than Heroin or Buprenorphine to stop. They are all potent opioids with pro's and con's compared to eachother's withdrawal syndrome.

Another option is to call the Methadone clinics in your area, as many MMT clinics now also offer Buprenorphine maintenance or taper outpatient as well (mine does). I would recommend looking them up on the SAHMSA website (they list most/all of the Methadone clinics in the country), printing out the list, and calling them and asking if they offer Suboxone and if you can come in for intake for a Buprenorphine taper outpatient.

This is also going to be cheaper than going to a Bupe mill doctor; most if not all of them charge a few hundred dollars just for the first visit and hand you a script for 90 days worth of Buprenorphine. If you are only interested in a couple weeks, and low doses at that given you want to taper, this option (the doc + pharmacy) will run several hundred dollars easy.

Policy is often different for BMT patients at an MMT clinic (i.e. more expensive), but not by much. I think at my clinic MMT patients pay $12 a day, BMT patients pay like $20.
 

Desdenova

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You don't need to worry about all the doctors you see in the future seeing you were an addict, the system doesn't work like that

The only way a doctor can get your medical records is if you give them written permission, and then you also have to give them the information of the doctors you want them to receive records from

There is no medical file that follows you around. If you don't give someone permission to have specific records, they don't have it. The privacy laws in place allow you to control this information

Just go to a clinic and if it really makes you feel better, don't use your insurance. Maybe go to one that's a little far away from where you live.
 

brutus

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Methadone is no easier or harder than Heroin or Buprenorphine to stop.
I second that Tchort. Methadone also carries a much higher abuse potential than bupe as well as the threat of overdosing when combined with other CNS depressants. I've spent days in a coma because of methadone...
 

megawoof

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in my experience when you been using heavy opiates like you have there isnt just the physical aspect to look at but the psyco aspect to i think mentally its extemely difficult to cope with so maybe sum therapy other thamn chemical substition s needed to give you a real chance of quitting and wish you all the very best friend
 

WSB15

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To anyone who has ever been in this situation, is there an anonymous way to LEGALLY get subs from a Dr. without it going on your medical/insurance record and ruining the rest of your life? Cheap as possible is best
It may be if you find a nice doctor. My first doc wouldn't even take insurance because the insurance companies never actually paid her. My second doctor said she did that with some of her patients. Suboxone is not cheap though without insurance.

It's not a bad idea. Otherwise, you'll be treated like a worthless junkie by a few in the mental health professionals. Most are nice though so don't worry about that aspect. What you need to worry about is health insurance coverage. Are you currently insured? Or are you going to be seeking coverage soon?
 

Captain.Heroin

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Policy is often different for BMT patients at an MMT clinic (i.e. more expensive), but not by much. I think at my clinic MMT patients pay $12 a day, BMT patients pay like $20.
If you have insurance, buprenorphine is really cheap. Less than $2/day.

but lung damage and poverty dissuades me from smoking, but I have been vaporizing and making thc butter to get the most out of it while minimizing the negative health effects.
There are no negative health effects from smoking marijuana.

There might be negative health effects from heroin use... (might, not absolutely), but not from smoking marijuana.
 

djsim

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How long do I have to wait after using suboxone to get high on oxycontin? is 2 hrs long enough?

;)
 

DeLee

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How long do I have to wait after using suboxone to get high on oxycontin? is 2 hrs long enough?

;)
It depends on how long youve been on Suboxone and in what dosages.
I would say atleast 24h.
 

Jaytee

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How long do I have to wait after using suboxone to get high on oxycontin? is 2 hrs long enough?

;)
Like 1-3 days depending on how much you take. I think I read somewhere that it takes 72 hours after your last suboxone dose before you get the FULL effects of whatever opiate you're taking.
 

Captain.Heroin

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djsim was making a joke BTW
 
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