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Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ and Megathread v.1; 2007 - 2010

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SUBUXONE-the miracle drug????

alright, i have alot of questions regarding subuxone..myself a former opiate addict that wewnt on methadone maintenance..when i first got on methadone it did seem like a miracle, i no longer craved heroin, i wasnt dopesick etc etc...but that feeling wore off and then i started to hate being on methadone and having to go to the clinic, and dealing with the tiredness from taking methadone...now, when people tell me about subusxone, they sound very familiar, when they get on it, they get their energy back, they feel normal again, they arent dopesick and craving, they can enjoy life again....thats great, but how long does that feeling last on subuxone??

how many people on here have been on subuxone for a few years and still can claim that this drug kills cravings, gives them energy and wel-being??

what are the drawbacks to using subuxone beside the price???

bottom line, to all subuxone users, is subuxone the absolutely best choice for somehow 'curing' opiod addiction ????????
 
Merging question about sub experiences into the sub mega thread. You should look through there for reports as well.
 
mitragyna said:
  • Do most of you guys get piss tested when you go to get ur Bupe scripts?
  • How many days worth of Bupe does your doc give you at once? Like a month supply?
  • Anyone here prescribed Bupe strictly for depression?
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-I've NEVER been tested by my doc and I've been to 2 different docs in the area (but i was coming straight from a rehab, if that makes a difference)

-I usually get 2 months per visit, next time she's giving me 3 months so I can save money with the mail-order fill though, she's retiring & knows it can take time to get set up with a new doctor.
 
My doc piss tests me once every 2 months, and as long as i dont test hot for anything besides marijuana, im good. I get 56 pills a month, so 2 8mg pills a day. And i think you would be very hard pressed to find a dr to rx bupe for depression.
 
bottom line here guys, is subuxone the absolute best 'cure' for opiod addiction??i went on methadone after a bad heroin habit and it helped me get off the dope but then i hated being on methadone, dealing with the clinic, tiredness etc etc...then getting off methadone was a whole other story...

so, is subuxone much better than methadone??most people report that subuxone gives them energy and the ability to enjoy life again..im sure thats at the beginning, but does that feeling last on sub???what are the downsides of using or being on sub besides the price??
 
I find that when redosing my suboxone I too withdrawal for a short period of time. My theory is that the new buprenorphine and naloxone entering your system begin to knock off what was already there, because even after 24 hours (or 28 in your case) there will still be some burpenorphine attached to the receptors even if you already feel ill, and then the new doses of bupe/naloxone behin compete for the receptors, causing mild withdrawal symptoms for a very short amount of time until the bupe takes hold on the receptors.

Thats just my theory.
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I was actually thinking the same thing.. it practically happens to me everyday when I take suboxone.. as soon as I start to re-dose suboxone.. It actually seems like it does throw you into a very short (easy) withdrawl.. I actually have started to like this because every time I re-dose, its right then that I have to use the bathroom (shit).. This is typically the ONLY time that I have to use the bathroom throughout the day.. right after I dose..

how many people on here have been on subuxone for a few years and still can claim that this drug kills cravings, gives them energy and wel-being??
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suboxone really doesn't kill the cravings for me.. but I recently started taking buproprion (wellbutrin, zyban) and found that the two of them together is just perfect.. the wellbutrin gives a little kick of energy (not like grinding teeth energy) and that has atleast helped me in the past to keep my mind off of using gear.. thats just me tho..
 
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^^
Crazy, I thought I was the only one. I always need to take a shit after my dose of Sub. There's a very short "window" though, so I need to make sure I'm near a toilet when I dose.
 
I've been on suboxone almost 2 years now, 22mg a day.

In my country suboxone & methadone treatments are arranged by public healthcare so they are free of charge. The only downside is the waiting period to get into the treatment in the first place, I had to wait 13 months to get on suboxone.

It's true that opioid addiction cannot be treated overnight. I doubt I'd be doing very well if my treatment would have lasted only 6 months. There are people at my clinic who have been on suboxone or methadone for years.

To me it seems the longer I've been on suboxone the less I think about other opioids.. the treatment seems to be working better now that I've quit all benzos and other medications beside the suboxone. It really has helped me a lot, I doubt I'd be even alive now if not for the treatment.

Suboxone is really a lot better long-term medication than methadone. Sure I'm dependent on buprenorphine, but I don't get cravings for opioids and I have money to spend on other things beside dope. Quitting suboxone is possible by slowly lowering the dosage, even after years of treatment, while methadone is really hard to quit - most of the people I know that are on methadone intend to do it for the rest of their lives.
 
Crazy, I thought I was the only one. I always need to take a shit after my dose of Sub. There's a very short "window" though, so I need to make sure I'm near a toilet when I dose.
Report
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Its true tho.. this is literally the ONLY time that I have a BM.. its crazy.. but it works out fine.. I shat in the morning and I'm golden the rest of the day.. but I am positive that this is the exact reason for that happening.. re-dosing I mean..

and to the above poster.. methadone doesn't have to be a life long process.. once you're able to get over the fear of the withdrawl, the sooner you'll be able to move on to a positive lifestyle without the handcuff's.. we're blessed to have access to a drug such as suboxone... people back in the day had jack shit!.. i'd say we're all damn lucky to have such a breakthrough medication in the pschology/addiction world..
 
^^no doubt, even methadone with its terrible reputastion(deserved??) is a miracle drug when it comes to getting people off heroin...it basically just replaces the addiction but it does help in the short run..fact is, the long term is what i wanna know and i can only go on what i saw at my methadone clinic..the people that had been there for 5-10 plus years were sick to death of the clinic and methadone and they just looked worn out...im talking the majority here and this is what opened my eyes..
 
The original thread by phrozen had reached its limit of 1000 posts. Thanks to phrozen for writing this. Its been a huge asset to OD. The original thread with all its posts can be found in the OD archive.

phrozen said:
What: Suboxone = buprenorphine/naloxone. Bupe is a partial agonist(mu) and antagonist(kappa). Bupe has higher mu affinity that most opiates, including some antagonists(naloxone, naltrexone). Its higher affinity allows you to shoot suboxone tablets. It also may cause precipitated withdrawals if you are dependant on other opiates. Also, its higher affinity blocks the affects of other opiates when taken in conjunction with bupe.

Dose: Depends on tolerance. 1-2mgs is a typical recreational dose for someone with no tolerance. If you're using bupe to taper off of another opiate, you should dose once you're experiencing wd's(typically 36-48 hrs. for most opiates). Start with 2-4mgs and dose at 2mg increments every 30-45minutes until a dose holds you. Most people take their full dose once a day.

Withdrawal: Typical physical and psychological symptoms associated with opiate withdrawal. Insomnia, chills, diarrhea, depression, anxiety, lacrimation, sweating, increased heart rate, etc. They are not as strong as a full agonist's symptoms, but may last longer. Physical symptoms last 1-2 weeks on average and psychological symptoms may last months.

As most opiates, it's recommended to taper down to the lowest dose possible before stopping. <1mg is ideal. The best way to dose at that level is to crush up a tablet and divide the powder into lower doses.

Ceiling: 24-32mgs

Bioavailability:


Other Notes:

Images:
p05331b1.jpg

Subutex

p05331a6.jpg

Suboxone

I couldn't find photos of Tamgesic, and Buprenex just comes in vials

Locate a doctor that prescribes Suboxone.
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FAQ written by phrozen

phrozen said:
Q: How long after my last bupe dose can I take an opiate and feel its effects?
A: It depends on what dose of bupe you were taking and how long. The short answer is 36-48 hours. Caution should be used when dosing, as you will still have a tolerance but it will not be as high as it was when you first got on bupe.

Q: Is bupe a good replacement for methadone?
A: Maybe. Some people with a high enough opiate tolerance may not be held by bupe at any level, even at the highest(ceiling) possible dose. You should research both before deciding what to go on, as they both have different positives and negatives in regards to their use.

Q: I'm thinking about switching from methadone to bupe. At what methadone dose should I be when I switch?
A: Most places recommend being at 30-40mgs of methadone when switching. That may be hard to achieve since that level is lower than the recommended therapeutic maintenance level. Also, you'd have to wait 36-48 hours before your last methadone dose to switch in order to avoid precipitated withdrawal

Q: Will I still have cravings on bupe?
A: Maybe. Some people report no cravings, while others report the same level as before.

Q: Is bupe good for depression/anxiety?
A: Yes, it may help with depression and anxiety. It is not currently prescribed for either and its effectiveness has not been studied for long term use for either. You may be able to get it prescribed off label for depression/anxiety, but its not likely to happen. Here is an article on PubMed about a study on bupe being used to treat depression.

Q: Is it safe to shoot Suboxone/Subutex?
A: No. It can cause many of the same complications as shooting other pills. Just because Suboxone/Subutex dissolves easily, unlike other pills, does not mean it's any safer to to shoot. The best advice is to use a micron filter. This* is a good indication of what can happen. (Although that could happen from injecting any other drug/pill.)

Q: Is bupe recreational?
A: Yes. Although it is rarely the preferred opiate for people who have experience with full mu agonists.

Q: Can you overdose on buprenorphine?
A: Yes you can. Buprenorphine causes respiratory depression which may lead to death. The person most likely to OD on bupe has a low(if any) tolerance to opiates and may have taken another depressant. A buprenorphine overdose may not be reversed by naloxone(or naltrexone for that matter) due to bupe's higher affinity. Diprenorphine may reverse the overdose, but it is not regularly stocked by emergency personnel or hospitals. If a proper antagonist isn't available, the person suffering an overdose may be maintained with assisted respiration.

Q: Can I still get high on other opiates if I'm on bupe?
A: This depends on what dose of bupe you're on. You will most likely be able to shoot through a low dose of bupe(1-2mgs). But, don't expect the full effects of the opiate you're shooting through with. Even at higher doses, if you take enough of the opiate you may feel it. This is not recommended, as you may overdose before reaching the desired recreational effects.

*Link to article provided by hfrs in a different thread
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There has been some confusion with information regarding suboxone/buprenorphine because some are using the drug for different purposes. Most of the information provided pertains to using suboxone/buprenorphine as a maintenance aid for opiate dependency. This information sometimes goes against the suggested information for using suboxone/burprenorphine as a recreational drug.

This time around, Im going to add a quick FAQ to help users of this drug figure out what is what. The OD guidelines say we will not help anyone abuse maintenance programs, but I think its important to answer a few basic questions about recreational suboxone/buprenorphine in an effort to reduce harm when, inevitably, someone decides to use it recreationally. For example, a recreational dose is going to be significantly smaller than a maintenance dose. I think its important to make that clear.

So, here it is. The quick "Recreational Basics of Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ."


Can Suboxone or Buprenorphine be used recreationally?

Yes, it can, but not for everyone. One thing you must consider to figure out if you can use this drug recreationally is your tolerance. Someone who is addicted to opiates or has a very high tolerance to them will not be able to get high off of this drug. Typically, the only people who do get high from it are people who are relatively inexperienced with opiates.

If you are using suboxone or buprenorphine as a maintenance tool, you are not going to be able to get high from it, so its best not to even try. You'll run through your supply faster than normal with no beneficial gain.

How much do I need to take to get high from it?

This is an important thing to pay attention to. If you have read about subxoone/buprenorphine at all on Bluelight, you have probably noticed people taking about doses of 4mg or 6mg, or 8mg or 12mg, and sometimes even as high as 24mg or 32mg.

That is WAY too much for a recreational dose.

For someone who has little to no tolerance for opiates, a dose of 1mg or 2mg is more than enough.

What is the risk for ODing?

Even though suboxone/buprenorphine has less effect on the respiratory system, and has much less CNS depression compared to other opiates, the chance of OD is still there. This is why its important to start at as low of a dose as possible (1mg - 2mg). Because of buprenorphines high affinity to the opiate receptors, typical antagonists used to reverse OD's (naloxone and naltrexone) can not be used. There are antagonists that can reverse the OD, but hospitals wont know they are needed unless they are made aware that your OD has been caused by buprenorphine, and its going to be hard to make them aware when your unconscious, so be careful.
 
i was taking suboxone 4-5 days of the week when i was low on funds to fill in the gaps between bundles. After the third or fourth weekof this Ibegan falling into terrible depressions for the majority of the day after taking my daily dose of 2mg x2/day. I am prone to terrible, crippling depressions and it seems that theybegan to cooincide with my sub dosing. If a particularly troubling event would happen (for instance my mom had cancer- she just passed away yester day- so if i witnessed her in pain the depression would go apeshit into thoughts o self harm andf suicide. Upon stopping the sub and just using small amounts of heroin/oxy/hydromorph to maintain the extreme side of this went away and I wasjust simply normal manic depressiveguy.
 
^ Strange, bupe has potential as an anti-D...

You're manic depressive? That may have had something to do with it...
 
I've heard St.johns wort is particularly effective at potentiating bupe, is this true? If so what type of dosage ratio of both should be taken.
 
Originally posted by ScurvaJunt and then merged into BA mega thread, but I figured this may interest some who frequent this thread as well:

Karsten Lindhardt, Morten Bagger, Kasper Huus Andreasen and Erik BechgaardCorresponding Author Contact Information, E-mail The Corresponding Author
Department of Pharmaceutics, The Royal Danish School of Pharmacy, Universitetsparken 2, DK-2100 Copenhagen Ø, Denmark

Received 4 October 2000;
revised 18 January 2001;
accepted 24 January 2001
Available online 30 March 2001.

Purchase the full-text article



References and further reading may be available for this article. To view references and further reading you must purchase this article.

Abstract

The purpose of the present study of buprenorphine is to add information about the correlation between various animal models and nasal bioavailabilities in man. PEG 300 was added to one formulation to study whether the addition of the co-solvent results in the same absorption pattern as seen for sheep. The bioavailability of intranasal buprenorphine 0.6 mg in PEG 300 and 5% dextrose was assessed in a cross-over study in six rabbits. The mean bioavailabilities, Tmax and Cmax were 46% (S.D. ±13) and 53% (S.D. ±17), 8 and 12 min, 28 and 27 ng/ml for 30% PEG 300 and 5% dextrose, respectively. No significant differences were found between the nasal buprenorphine formulations. The bioavailabilities in rabbit and sheep, respectively, were ≈2.5 and four times higher than for man. The absorption rate was faster for rabbit and sheep than for man. It appears that rabbit and sheep bioavailability differ from humans, especially with respect to rate. PEG 300 do not increase the bioavailability of buprenorphine.
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