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Bupe Suboxone and Oxy Question...precipitated withdrawal??

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IGotTheBlues

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Jun 7, 2012
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If I take suboxone....then 12 hours later I take oxy and either feel a very little high or no high at all....will I experience precipitated withdrawal if I take a suboxone like 8-10 hours after my oxy dose?
 
You should still wait 24 hrs before dosing the Suboxone. A month or so ago I only took 20mg of oxy once Suboxone hard worn off, and it didn't do much and I was feeling withdrawal about 8 hrs later, so I dosed Suboxone and ended up throwing up, sweating, and some other fun stuff, which was definitely a case of precipitated withdrawals.
 
That's interesting.....2 months ago I was doing like 150mg oxy a day then cut it to like 60mg one day and because I took a lower dose I went into wd sooner so I took a sub about 18 hours after my lower oxy dose and didnt get any p/wd...but i was also in full wd. It's a pain in the ass because Im not getting high off the oxy after my sub but still may go into p/wd if I dont wait 24 hours.

What if after I do the oxy after the sub and it doesnt get me high and wait until I feel wd symptoms and just take a real low dose of oxy...like 30mg just to get past the wd...would I still need 24 hours after a tiny dose like 30mg? Im assuming at such a low dose it would only get me out of wd for a while then would start back up again and being such a low dose I would assume Id be ok to take a sub like 12-18 hours after the tiny dose of oxy....either way I should be in full wd before taking a sub.
 
18 hours is long enough for me, but the subs don't feel as effective unless I wait 24-36 hours.
 
Everyone is different, and the standard advice is wait 24-48hrs before taking suboxone after your last full agonist opioid. HOWEVER, in my case I find I can take suboxone within 6-12 hrs of my last dose of full agonist opioids and completely avoid precipitated w/d.

if you tried getting high of a full agonist like oxycodone after taking suboxone and didn't feel any noticeable effects from the oxy, you almost certainly don't need to wait the normal 24-48hrs to avoid precipitated w/d. this is my experience at least.

as tommy's post implies, the more time you wait after taking a full agonist, the more "effective" you suboxone will be.

taking more oxy after taking oxy and not getting high cause the suboxone is still in your system will do you no good. that is, unless your second dose of oxy is like a day+ after your first post-bupe oxy dose.

if you do the oxy after the sub and it doesn't get you high, and then wait until you feel w/d from the bupe, you're going to have to wait 24(min)-72hrs before the acute w/d makes itself noticeable (generally speaking).

if you take a small dose of oxy 72 hrs (assuming that's how long it takes to feel w/d from the sub) after your last dose, there are two options: 1) you don't feel the oxy cause there is still some suboxone in your system and you have a tolerance to bupe OR 2) you get high from the oxy cause you're in w/d form the suboxone.

if 1) happens, you probably don't have to wait 24hrs to avoid precipitated w/d.
if 2) happens you'll have to wait the normal time before you can take suboxone and avoid precipitated w/d.
 
I want to share my precipitated withdrawal story because there really isn't as much info out there as there should be. I hope this helps someone. I was a vicodin addict on and off for 8 years. In July 2011 I started suboxone and quickly ended up at 24 mgs a day. On Sunday June 10th I took my last sub at 3 pm and ran out. The following day I started taking Vicodin to ease my withdrawal. I think it helped, but only with that crazy wd back pain and the watery sneezy drama. I was taking probably 100 mg hydro a day!! No matter what, I'd wake up about 3 am all week and have to take more to sleep. There was absolutely NO euphoria at all all damn week. Yesterday, a week after quitting subs, I took 25 mg hydro at 8 am. The pharmacist said to wait 6 hours after Vicodin to take subs and I did. At 2 pm I decided to play it safe and take about 1 mg sub to test the waters. Immediately, my pupils got huge, arms were burning, mild watery eyes, felt like crapping, yawning... You get the idea - it was precipitated wd. But you know what? It was not that bad and was worth it. In maybe a half hour I felt like I did before I took sub. Then an hour and a half later, I took about 2 mgs more and I was wasted! It felt like the good old days. Bottom line- just wait like 6 hours and take a tiny little bit and give it a little while.
 
So I guess the bottom line is that if you're just a Vicodin person, don't get all twisted in the oxy / heroin / methadone PWD stories. It will just scare you and I can tell you that us addicts have been through more scary stuff than most people, and this is really minor compared to running to crack houses in the middle of the night for a fix or almost OD ing on vics or the thought of the Tylenol blowing out your liver every day. Just wait like 6 hours and take a tiny bit of sub and let it rip the leftover Vicodin off your receptors while you wrap up in a blanket for 10/20 mins and an hour or so later, continue on with your business of subbing. The horror stories are for people on hardcore drugs or people that cannot control themselves and take a giant dose of sub at first. Just feed yourself barely enough to rip off the vics. And to the people that are so adminate about getting off subs... Why bother, really? Studies show that being a pill addict literally causes brain damage and you're never ever really the same after that. With a low dose of sub I can have a normal life like everyone else and feel the way I am used to feeling and not worry. I think of it as my blood pressure or cholestrol pill for my disease just like any other disease.
 
i have taken a sub around 12-14 hours after last oxy dose (overnight) and have not had any precipitated w/d's. NO idea if has anything to do with it or not, but i have an incredibly fast metabolism.



Also, on a side note...something i have thought about with this whole suboxone and precipitated w/d's (and i apologize in advance as my knowledge of the actual science/chemistry behind it is not great) :

my understanding that you will get precipitated w/d's if you take a sub too soon after another opiate because the bupe will strip the opiates off of the particular brain receptors (again, not sure of the correct terminology) and leave those receptors with nothing on it.

Assuming that i am correct so far, if that were to happen, what if you took another sub shortly thereafter? say, an hour or 2 later. If the first one strips all the opiates off of those receptors leaving nothing there...it would almost seem logical that if you were take a 2nd one, that THAT one would attach itself to those receptors just as if you had waited the proper amount of time between the last opiate intake and the suboxone.

I hope that makes sense....
 
Yeah I agree, I think you're right. That's basically what I'm saying is that just take a little tiny bit of sub 5-6 hours after Vicodin and let it run it's coarse and then wait again an hour or so and take a normal dose. Everything in moderation. Of coarse my story is Vicodin, not hardcore stuff. I have no idea about hard drugs, but I think the people dabbling in Vicodin hear the heroin horror stories and let it get to their heads. I know people that switch from Vic's to sub and back Every day and they are just careful. You probably didn't take a handful of Vicodin the first time you tried it, so why do that with sub when everyone knows its so dang powerful?
 
dankJ said:
i have taken a sub around 12-14 hours after last oxy dose (overnight) and have not had any precipitated w/d's. NO idea if has anything to do with it or not, but i have an incredibly fast metabolism.



Also, on a side note...something i have thought about with this whole suboxone and precipitated w/d's (and i apologize in advance as my knowledge of the actual science/chemistry behind it is not great) :

my understanding that you will get precipitated w/d's if you take a sub too soon after another opiate because the bupe will strip the opiates off of the particular brain receptors (again, not sure of the correct terminology) and leave those receptors with nothing on it.

Assuming that i am correct so far, if that were to happen, what if you took another sub shortly thereafter? say, an hour or 2 later. If the first one strips all the opiates off of those receptors leaving nothing there...it would almost seem logical that if you were take a 2nd one, that THAT one would attach itself to those receptors just as if you had waited the proper amount of time between the last opiate intake and the suboxone.

I hope that makes sense....
Click to expand...

more or less. the buprenorphine has higher binding afffinities to receptors than opiates, so it kicks them off, but think of it like a bump key, it dosnt fit the lock (receptor) as well as a set of factory keys (high power stuff like heroin, hydromorphone), so it doesnt feel as good. afaik, pwd's do no last very long, maybe an hour max?, I havent read much on them except that they are short and intense. and they suck.

btw, pwd's arent shit compared to cotton fever. withdraw of any type sucks, but the last two times I had cotton fever I thought I was going to shake myself apart, and it happens SO fast. One minute you're fine, and the next you are shaking out of control, have pegged a 104* fever, and are freezing cold even under 4 comfortors and hugging a heating pad. popping a few tylenol or aspirin and drinking plenty of water (which is damned hard when you are shaking uncontrollably) seems to greatly speed up recovery time.
 
Subgirl1980 said:
So I guess the bottom line is that if you're just a Vicodin person, don't get all twisted in the oxy / heroin / methadone PWD stories. It will just scare you and I can tell you that us addicts have been through more scary stuff than most people, and this is really minor compared to running to crack houses in the middle of the night for a fix or almost OD ing on vics or the thought of the Tylenol blowing out your liver every day. Just wait like 6 hours and take a tiny bit of sub and let it rip the leftover Vicodin off your receptors while you wrap up in a blanket for 10/20 mins and an hour or so later, continue on with your business of subbing. The horror stories are for people on hardcore drugs or people that cannot control themselves and take a giant dose of sub at first. Just feed yourself barely enough to rip off the vics. And to the people that are so adminate about getting off subs... Why bother, really? Studies show that being a pill addict literally causes brain damage and you're never ever really the same after that. With a low dose of sub I can have a normal life like everyone else and feel the way I am used to feeling and not worry. I think of it as my blood pressure or cholestrol pill for my disease just like any other disease.
Click to expand...

Welcome to BL. Why bother? Why be tethered to a chemical you dont need, for life? If you miss a dose of Zocor, bfd, if you miss a dose (or run out) of subs, you are screwed. Please cite some sources that say pills cause brain damage.
 
the longer you wait to do the sub the better if i do it 24 hours after my last dose (normally 16 to 12 hours into wd) i just stops me from getting worse but if i wait 60 to 72 hours it makes me feel very good actually
 
Thanks - I'm new to this message board stuff, but I've suffered in silence for so long trolling boards for help. I've been through some crazy stuff with opiates in my 31 years and would be willing to share anything that would help another person. My sub doctor is the one who told me that opiate addicts suffer brain damage that is irreversible in areas of memory and things like that. When I see him I'll ask where he learned that. I know that even during times I've been clean, I'm never right. I was sober for three years quitting when I had my son. I personally have abused opiates for many reasons and I always wonder if I'm a weirdo. I feel skinnier and lighter on opiates. I don't get a puffy belly or legs, my appetite is controlled. I feel like super woman because my back doesn't hurt and I have the strength to take care of three kids and work 60 hours a week to pay the bills. Now mind you - I understand the dangers of that. I keep my stash in a safe and my husband is aware of my issues and I go to AA and a therapist. I just can't make it over the hump where I can leave the subs behind. The pain is just awful and I become almost disabled - emotionally and physically. Subs haw given me a different quality of life.
 
I think thats bullshit.. about the permanent memory shit. Of all the things I would think memory would be last on teh list. I have heard grey matter is affected or some shit but not irreversable. Heroin is just like oxycodone.. if peopel were getting permanent brain damage thehy wouldnt pbe prescribing opiates out the ass in this country.

Also.. you ask why bother getting off subs at all? Do you really wanna be dependent on opiates your whole life?
 
Hey... Just telling you what my doc said.

Personal choice is yes, I don't mind being on opiates forever. If it means I have the energy to do things and have a good quality of life and not worry about the two weeks a month where I'd normally lay around crying in pain, I'm all for it. Suboxone has given me the freedom to live again without worrying about my liver or where to buy my drugs or getting arrested or overdose. It makes life a little more comfortable. Without it I would just be on some other anti depressant and still feel horrible, so it's really my best option. It seems that once you know what life is like on opiates, you have a hard time going back.
 
Many drugs are powerful reinforcers, and in turn, can pretty much permanently rewire your brain. Don't know if its fair to call it true damage though. Too subjective. It is fair to say you can take someone many years removed from an addiction, and while performing brain scans show them pictures of a similar environment to the one where they were ingesting the substance, and their brain will light up like a Christmas tree, in the same areas that would be activated if they had just ingested the drug again.
 
I have a lot of experience with suboxone. I have been on it for over 6 years now. Precipitated withdrawals are the worst! However, I noticed that there might be some confusion about how this happens. If you are using opiates, you must wait 24 hours after your last dose before taking suboxone. If you have any opiates still working in your system, taking the suboxone will send you into instant withdrawals. For those who have never experienced this, it's like withdrawals times ten. It's pure hell. But if you take suboxone and then you use opiates afterwards, this does not happen. In fact, nothing happens. You are just unable to get high. No precipitated withdrawals. Just wanted to clear that up. There should be some sort of limmeric for this..... Subs after dope, gonna wish you had a rope..... or Subs after dope, better sit, pray, and hope.
 
Omg that's hilarious. Have you had the experience though where you just take a tiny bit of sub to get the PWD over with and it's not so bad, then you can continue on as normal an hour or two later? Was your DOC vicodin?
 
Swain said:
I think thats bullshit.. about the permanent memory shit. Of all the things I would think memory would be last on teh list. I have heard grey matter is affected or some shit but not irreversable. Heroin is just like oxycodone.. if peopel were getting permanent brain damage thehy wouldnt pbe prescribing opiates out the ass in this country.

Also.. you ask why bother getting off subs at all? Do you really wanna be dependent on opiates your whole life?
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Um. Heroin is NOT just like oxycodone. Oxycodone is medication that at least you know or can find out everything in it. Heroin will always be cut with something and you will never know because well.... Your drug dealer isn't going to tell you of course. If you're on here to talk shit and be judgemental why are you wasting your time? People want real answers and real advice and that's something you are not giving. If suboxone gives someone a better quality of life and they don't have to shoot up to get the same feelings why be negative? If you haven't been addicted to any thing you will never understand. Obviously if you ask anyone they'll say if they had a choice they wouldn't be on any thing period but because of choices they made this is the last option that is managable and gives them q.o.l. take your negativity somewhere else
 
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