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Bupe sublocade/buprenorphine and heroin ???'s (different types of H).

SubSultan

Greenlighter
Joined
Oct 24, 2018
Messages
6
Hello. I've seen a good bit of the opiate/opioid/heroin posts here on this forum (and a lot of them actually do look quite interesting/informative) and I do indeed intend to read through most if not all of them quite in depth. That said, I have a specific question that I've had for a while now, and I've even gotten it answered before but to varying degrees and and with some saying yes and some saying no (black/white, you know, everyone seems to be either up or down on this issue but none can ever agree uniformly).
Now, I've been on buprenorphine now for quite some time and I used heroin for years heavily before that. mostly #4 powdered heroin (brown/tan and/or grey) as I'm from the northeast US. Now, I've always been told that buprenorphine makes using opiates impossible (it blocks them) but I've also been told that this isn't enitrely true, especially if you use a lot of and/or a strong opiate (like good heroin) and/or if your ROA is intense (like IV injection). Just to get it out there, for the most part I do like staying clean, but every once in a while I do "treat" myself and I get some dope and use it. whenever I do that I always IV inject it and I always feel it. It is always to varying degrees but I always feel it at least a little bit. this is with buprenorphine in my system (subutex so lots of buprenorphine due to frequent and high daily dosings but no naloxone) and I always feel it, just to differing degrees. Now, I am on the sublocade once a month 300 mg shot (I'm due for my third or fourth shot soon) and I seem to have the same issues with using H occassionally as I did when doing so while on high daily doses of subutex (oral buprenorphine with no naloxone, since sublocade is steady release BUPE injection but with no naloxone). Again, just for the record, if I use suboxone films (that have naloxone in them) I don't/can't feel shit for like a day or two, no matter how much I do or what/how I do it. So, the naloxone does work and work well as a full blocker but I always was told that just the BUPE itself was a blocker of opiates and the naloxone was just added protection as well as to ensure you didn't abuse the BUPE itself. IDFK!!. (hence, why I'm asking here, hopefully someone can finally clarify this shit to me).

I know this may be kind of a stupid/annoying question for some of you and it may have been debated ad nauseum already in certain places. However, if you wouldn't mind (and you posses the proper knowledge and/or experience to do so), just to set my head straight and let me know once and for all what's really going on and what is and isn't just in my head or not (since I swear I DO INDEED get high whenever I use H, even while on lots of BUPE, be it oral subutex or this new sublocade injection, as long as there is no naloxone present at all).
Is this the REAL truth of the matter (this is what I've come up with)? That Buprenorphine (with no naloxone) even at frequent and/or high doses (administered orally or XR injection, doesn't really matter) MAY block and/or at least reduce the effects of some opiates and/or when opiates are administered certain ways. But if you use certain other opiates/opiates that are strong enough to break through then you will still get high and feel their effects? Also, if you administer said opiates using an ROA that is intense enough to break through the BUPE (such as IV injecting)? And, especially so when combining both of these techniques/situations (such as IV injecting GOOD/STRONG Heroin)?

Sorry for the long, boring and possibly confusing question, especially on something that like I said may have already been debated to death here, I just really wanna know what is going on here once and for all (I'm just that kind of a person, idk). Because, like I said, I swear I get high, to differing degrees, whenever I shoot H, even when on lots of BUPE (oral/subutex and this new sublocade shot) and I wanna know exactly why, if that's possible to know.

Also, As a P.S., I'm sure the "differing degrees" I speak about are from differing amounts of H and in differences in the strength of the H I'm using (and also possibly differences in the amount of BUPE active in my system at the time, even with no naloxone) but I have also noticed differences in how high I feel when shooting H while on any type of BUPE preparation (no naloxone) depending on the type of H I use. Whenever I use Black Tar Heroin (which I have a few good connects for even though I'm in the northeast US) it always feels like it breaks through harder and gets me higher for longer than the powder dope I get (and I get GOOD powder). Is there a reason behind BTH breaking through BUPE better (and staying broken through)? Or is it just in my head? Or could it be something like since I mostly usually use powdered dope regularly anyway that when I use BTH while on BUPE since I'm using a new type of dope and using enough to make sure I break through the BUPE at that that I could just be feeling it more because of those reasons at the moment? (This one is extra weird to me since I've always read/been told that Black Tar Heroin, or BTH, is on average, generally weaker/less potent than #4 powdered dope). So, WTF is the real deal here??!!

Again, one last time, I know this might be stupid to some people to the point of being annoying/irritating,and for those of you I DO APOLOGIZE. But I feel it could potentially be enlightening/educative and informative, especially to those on BUPE preparation medications/treatments (be it oral/sub-lingual or sublocade monthly XR shot, etc.) Because for people who do use H (and other opiates) while on BUPE I'm sure there is info. they should know to be/stay totally safe and to do it the right and safe way if they're gonna do it at all. also, when I KNOW I feel something and then I have people (even doctors, counselors, etc.) telling me that there is no way, that it's impossible, that I'm on a blocker and that there is just no possible way, then I just gotta know what's going on. Especially when different ROA's and also even different types of the same opiate (different types of Heroin) make me feel differing degrees of "high" effects than that makes it seem much less imagined, fake, and in my head and much more subjective and real. And, just like mixing H and other opiates with methadone (for those on methadone treatment) turned out to be, I'm sure there is a right and wrong way to mix opiates with BUPE (if and/or when you choose to do so) and that the wrong way could potentially lead to much easier times overdosing, so I think this is an important and viable topic, even if irritating for some (or many), again SORRY.

And THANK YOU GREATLY, to anyone who could answer with an answer that was in any way and at all HELPFUL, even just a little bit!
 

Prescottdave

Bluelighter
Joined
Nov 15, 2014
Messages
537
Per numerous studies conducted by the NIH Naloxone has been shown to not be absorbed sublingually. When Naloxone is in your system it has a 30 minute half life. When we says blocks what we mean is significantly reduces the effect.

Suboxone and generic Buprenorphine have the same blocking potential. This is due to the Buprenorphine. The following link explains this in depth and cites several peer reviewed studies.

http://www.naabt.org/documents/NAABT_PrecipWD.pdf
 
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Prescottdave

Bluelighter
Joined
Nov 15, 2014
Messages
537
Another link which lists several studies showing opioids are blocked by the Buprenorphine while the addition of the Naloxone is clinically insignificant unless injected.

Below is a study conducted by the NIH discussing the half life of Naloxone. As well I listed another study which also concludes the doses of Naloxone in Suboxone are insignificant in blocking other opioids and precipitating WD's.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/13957
http://www.naabt.org/collateral/How_Bupe_Works.pdf
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2094723/?report=classic
 

Prescottdave

Bluelighter
Joined
Nov 15, 2014
Messages
537
Yes you can break through certain doses of Buprenorphine or Suboxone with strong opioids. Your ability to break through will not differ if you use a Naloxone combo product or strictly buprenorphine. What is clear is the effects of the opioid will be significantly reduced if Buprenorphine is in your system.

I have experimented with this in depth using pure smoked fu-f. After going above 4 mg of subutex I found it was not worth stacking an opioid on top even strong synthetic ones. Even 2 mg of bupe had the potential to block opioids for at least 48 hours.

Naloxone has vertically no effect when usd SL at the doses found in Suboxone. With such a short halflife even if it did have an effect it would only block opioids for 1-2 hours. This is why people overdose get revived with narcan and go out no less then a few hours later and end up back in the hospital suffering from another overdose.

You don't hear about people complaining that the Narcan shot they received is blocking opioids for upwards of 72 hours. The amount of data on the web backing this up is overwhelming. Try googling it.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28444856

The placebo effect is strong in those exposed to big pharma's attempt to extend the patent on Suboxone.

Another study showing sustained release buprenorphine blocks the synthetic opioid hydrmorphone.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5549150/?report=classic
 
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SubSultan

Greenlighter
Joined
Oct 24, 2018
Messages
6
Thanks very much for the info.

I currently recieve the sublocade injection shot 300 mg once per month XR steady release oncer every month, That has to be much more (or at least more, period) than 4 mg of subutex/buprenorphine and by just IV Injecting heroin, especially black tar heroin (for some reason) I can not only still get high but I can get straight up blasted as fuck. Like, it might be blocking a little bit of the effects but not very much. Using is DEFINITELY still worth it....

Do you think there might be something wrong with the sublocade I'm recieving? Or something wrong with how my doctor is administering it? And/or something wrong with how my body is absorbing/metabolizing/using the buprenorphine it is getting from the sublocade? With me still being able to get SO HIGH, and all..??
 

Prescottdave

Bluelighter
Joined
Nov 15, 2014
Messages
537
Thanks very much for the info.

I currently recieve the sublocade injection shot 300 mg once per month XR steady release oncer every month, That has to be much more (or at least more, period) than 4 mg of subutex/buprenorphine and by just IV Injecting heroin, especially black tar heroin (for some reason) I can not only still get high but I can get straight up blasted as fuck. Like, it might be blocking a little bit of the effects but not very much. Using is DEFINITELY still worth it....

Do you think there might be something wrong with the sublocade I'm recieving? Or something wrong with how my doctor is administering it? And/or something wrong with how my body is absorbing/metabolizing/using the buprenorphine it is getting from the sublocade? With me still being able to get SO HIGH, and all..??
I think there is something wrong with your willingness to get into recovery.

If you stopped the bupe for 72 hours and used you would realize just how much of the effects you had been blocking.

If there was something wrong with the medications they would not keep you well and you would be in serious WD's.

I have supplied you with at least a dozen sources. What you do with this information from this point is up to you. Honestly somewhat sad to see people still using on top of high dose bupe.

Even when people are provided some of the most quality addiction treatments for no to little cost they still insist on using. I know it can be hard in the beggening but with time and the right effort you will start feeling better and your cravings will dissipate.

You will never be able to deal with your cravings if you keep up your current regimen. I encourage you to read the study about the sustained realese bupe and the blocking potential on the effects of hydromorphone.

BTH can containe unreacted opiates and other narcotics found in the poppy which have a wide range of effects on the CNS aside from a strict Mu agonist. It can also containe fent. Which is known for overriding bupe. Be careful.
 
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