Misc Stimulants and happienss

[Foreigner]

Tonight when I was out with a friend I had a hankering for some chocolate, so I bought one of those 85% bars. I had a couple pieces and then lost all impulse control and ate the whole thing. Now I'm buzzing, unable to sleep.

But I'm also noticing that I just feel happy, more content, more energized. I'm well aware that a stimulant effect is at work, and there are existential underpinnings that have got me thinking.

I've been more or less sober for two years now, not even a toke of weed. Baseline sobriety is pretty mundane, boring even... I've adjusted to life without drugs, but it seems like my moments of happiness are fleeting. Then I eat a piece of chocolate, and suddenly life seems awesome. It's kind of ridiculous. It does make me wonder though if I inherently have something missing in my brain that prevents this kind of joy and upliftment from being experienced regularly. From this silly chocolate bar, I'm forced to wonder: is this closer to what "normal" people feel in their day to day? Actual happiness and contentment, all because their neurotransmitters are flowing properly?

I'm familiar with the neurochemistry at work. What I'm wondering is, are some people predisposed to sublevel happiness? I'm wondering if people are genetically disposed to need stimulants of some kind in order to derive satisfaction from life. Amphetamines would be the extreme because they burn out the system, but I'm talking about something lower level, perhaps caffeine, perhaps even the theobromine in cocoa (in chocolate). It seems like there are entire demographics of people who seek stimulants in their day to day. They just can't imagine life without them, and when they are deprived they seem to sink into some kind of depression.

So I'm wondering... would regular stimulant use be conducive to a happier life in people like me? Again, I'm not referring to hardcore stimulant use, but moderate things... like a cup of tea in the morning, or something along those lines. Could it be possible that people like me have a genetic requirement where we are somehow more compatible with stimulants as they occur in nature, and want to seek them out?

I'm wondering this about other drugs too... if there are populations more predisposed to opiate use and depressants.

If something makes me feel this good, how can it be bad? Could it even be useful?

P.S. I predict I'll feel like crap tomorrow from the lack of sleep and the over stimulation, but my questions still stand.

 

[dopamimetic]

What you feel is probably the theobromine

Happiness, stimulation & reward is a very complicated thing. I truly believe that one can achieve a happier, less stressed life without having to pay the equal price as it's being said usually.. this requires some self control and a learning process, as well as education about the mechanisms behind to not get fooled by the brain's reinforcing structures. But I think dopamine isn't as bad as it's reputation.

There is intriguing new evidence about how tolerance development works and how to prevent it, about modulating glutamate, abolishing oxidative stress and immune / inflammation reactions etc.

Could it be possible that people like me have a genetic requirement where we are somehow more compatible with stimulants as they occur in nature, and want to seek them out?

I'm wondering this about other drugs too... if there are populations more predisposed to opiate use and depressants.

This are really interesting questions I'm curious about too!

 

[Foreigner]

It's just annoying how I work hard every day to achieve baseline stability of mood and feel pleased with life, and then I eat a chocolate bar and I'm feeling blissful and on top of the world.

What the hell is missing in my neurochemistry that I can't feel remotely this good normally?

Trust me, this has been a life long process and I'm well aware that this takes work. I'm just wondering what the deficiency is.

 

[Mad Dash]

My friend you are absolutely right. You probably suffer from the same thing as I do, and many other addicts. D1 dopamine deficiency disorder. It was only recently discovered and hard to diagnose. But basically exactly what you are describing is caused by the fact that we do not get the proper flow of happy chemicals in the brain. This also causes other neuro-chems to try to compensate for the lack of dopamine so it sends the whole system out of whack. Having just began studying it they are becoming aware that it is brutal and will almost inexorably lead to addiction.

If a person with this problem tried any chemical that adjusts those levels the brain IMMEDIATELY says "oh hey, THAT is what we have been looking for!" It turns on the pathways for addiction right there as opposed to others who have to work at it for a long time to really create the need for drugs in their brain. So that is to say it can happen either genetically or environmentally but they now believe this is the reason for addiction and the old cliche that addiction is like diabetes is even more true than we could have ever imagined.

The scariest part about it is that the only way to really tell someone has it is if they have an innate internal desire from the day that they can make memories to try drugs and alcohol. Somehow the brain knows it is not functioning properly and once you figure out that drugs can change the way it works you immediately begin to seek them. That is why back in the day during red ribbon week my mind was like a fucking heat seeking missile, the very first time I heard about drugs and what they did something clicked in my brain and I began to actively search for drugs. That is why in fifth grade I could be found in the projects (a 12 year old white kid in the projects) granted it was in Gainesville, FL so not really the most dangerous projects on earth compelled to find some weed with a couple friends in toe who were not sure about the whole thing. They were not sure all the way up until we were high.

That is how I knew there was a difference I was locked on, it was my mission to find it and nothing was going to stop me. Once I did there was NO turning back. Now I am on medications that help to mitigate that problem. But realize you might have this and it will make the process of sobriety a mother fucker for you. If it were not for my lower spine being a wreck I would not even be on pain meds, though I do not allow myself to take anything other than methadone, I tried the subutex road for nearly a year and the pain was just too real to handle. If you followed my posts since I made my big comeback to bluelight after getting out of the army you know that I tried with every ounce of my soul not to switch to methadone but now that I have I have to be honest in that it completely takes away any and all cravings for opiates and bring my pain down to a 2 or 3 when I was on subutex it was a daily 6-8 depending on the day.

Without ANY pain meds it is a 9.5 all day. I only say 9.5 because I save 10 for pain where I can not move. I use a different scale for acute pain AKA I fell out of an airplane and I just mushed my spine, broke my leg, and hit my head really hard that one goes up to 20. I feel like there is the pain that you live with on a daily basis, and then there is the pain that CAUSED that pain to happen, which is why I keep two different pain scales in my head. But ya that is my take on it.

 

[Foreigner]

Thanks a lot for bringing science into this. It sheds some light.

That is how I knew there was a difference I was locked on, it was my mission to find it and nothing was going to stop me. Once I did there was NO turning back. Now I am on medications that help to mitigate that problem.

Which medications?

Btw, I was on high dose hydromorphone when I was in the hospital, and dilaudid... I did not become addicted. So I'm not sure if your description matches me.

But I can't dismiss it either. I mean, feeling high feels so good... which I know is such an obvious thing to say. But I mean, it's not just getting high, it also feels like I'm normalizing something that SHOULD be normal without the drugs, but isn't. Does that make sense? I'm trying to discern if these minimal feelings in sobriety are actually just run of the mill normal levels for anyone who is sober, or if my mood levels are genuinely lower than average.

Like you said, the drugs are providing something that my brain is missing. I know that drugs exaggerate feelings and euphoria, but for me it creates feelings that I often only experience minimally, or not at all in my day to day experience. I see people in the world who seem so happy all the time and I just don't get it.

Mind you... I've had a lot of personal issues and traumas to sort through so that doesn't help, but I do also believe there is fundamentally something wrong on a neurochemical level. Ever since I hit adolescence it was the case.

Anecdotally... when I'm in love with someone, I mean really in love, I feel normal. My happiness levels and mood levels stabilize. Love itself is like a drug, but you'd think that if my levels are endogenously low, that an intimate situation wouldn't change it.

So I'm confused. Is there a genuine neurochemical problem or is my life just shitty and I need to change it? That's kind of what I'm getting at.

 

[Mycophile]

This is really interesting.

And I know caffeine isn't a big deal, but i have a TOTAL inability to control my caffeine intake and cessation makes me SEVERELY depressed.

Lots of people, even including some not so nice people on here, have said that it's messed up that I can't just cut down.

But I wonder if maybe I am making up for some chemical imbalance I have.

Maybe I'm not and I'm just SO used to it that it's a bad addiction and I HOPE that's the cause and NOT that I have a dopamine deficiency because that would mean there's more hope of cutting down or quitting someday as believe it or not it CAN be a big problem for me.

But the comment about "once you realize it's there you need it all the time" rang true with that one in particular because I really can't understand how there was ever a time I was even functional without multiple cups of coffee a day.

People think it's a joke to mention caffeine with so many worse drugs out there and will say caffeine isn't even a drug, but if that's the case then how do you account for the OPs being up all night buzzing off of chocolate??....

 

[alfredosauce]

I love this post. Eating chocolate fudge ice cream right now thinking about how much happier I am with it.

Caffeine definitely boosts mood, and has some drawbacks. It doesn't cause a strong depression when you stop but definitely does cause some. I recently am tapering off a 600 mg caffeine a day coffee habit lol. I have a cup of tea with 2 teabags instead every morning (150 mg) and nothing after that. Overall I've felt much better. A little caffeine is definitely necessary to get myself up in the morning because I usually feel lethargic and annoyed.

Its necessary for people to get a little satisfaction from something especially if your depressed. Caffeine is best under 200 mg and in the morning so it doesn't effect sleep.

Some people are extremely impulsive and eat tons of sugar, drink lots of coffee, smoke cigs. That causes higher peaks and lows and is just bad overall.

I know what you mean by being happy when in love. I feel lonely often and when I had a girlfriend I always noticed loneliness in others and felt bad for them in way. Same thing w/frustration (not getting laid) really just gives a person bad self esteem. Just hope for the best and enjoy the little things in life, staying off hard drugs is the best you can do for yourself. Chocolates good for the

 

[Burnt Offerings]

Drugs make me happy too!

Determining what is "run of the mill" happiness for sober people seems extremely difficult. People's baseline moods vary widely and it's really impossible to say if your moods are "normal" or not.

Sober life seems boring to you because it IS boring, and moments of happiness seem fleeting because they ARE fleeting. That's what I've learned over the course of my life.

 

[AlphaMethylPhenyl]

I drink a ton of coffee each day. Better than hitting the meth pipe (I've never actually hit a meth pipe, I'm fine as I am thank you) !

 

[Ninae]

I think it's mostly the Phenylethylamine, which supports natural endorphin production. Try L-Phenylalanine‎ or DLPA (more stimulating). Amino acids make a dramatic effect in the right doses.

 

[Mycophile]

I think it's mostly the Phenylethylamine, which supports natural endorphin production. Try L-Phenylalanine‎ or DLPA (more stimulating). Amino acids make a dramatic effect in the right doses.

Is Phenylethylamine safe to combine with Klonopin and Lexapro??

I'd like to try it.

 

[Doctor.K]

My friend you are absolutely right. You probably suffer from the same thing as I do, and many other addicts. D1 dopamine deficiency disorder. It was only recently discovered and hard to diagnose. But basically exactly what you are describing is caused by the fact that we do not get the proper flow of happy chemicals in the brain. This also causes other neuro-chems to try to compensate for the lack of dopamine so it sends the whole system out of whack. Having just began studying it they are becoming aware that it is brutal and will almost inexorably lead to addiction.

If a person with this problem tried any chemical that adjusts those levels the brain IMMEDIATELY says "oh hey, THAT is what we have been looking for!" It turns on the pathways for addiction right there as opposed to others who have to work at it for a long time to really create the need for drugs in their brain. So that is to say it can happen either genetically or environmentally but they now believe this is the reason for addiction and the old cliche that addiction is like diabetes is even more true than we could have ever imagined.

The scariest part about it is that the only way to really tell someone has it is if they have an innate internal desire from the day that they can make memories to try drugs and alcohol. Somehow the brain knows it is not functioning properly and once you figure out that drugs can change the way it works you immediately begin to seek them. That is why back in the day during red ribbon week my mind was like a fucking heat seeking missile, the very first time I heard about drugs and what they did something clicked in my brain and I began to actively search for drugs. That is why in fifth grade I could be found in the projects (a 12 year old white kid in the projects) granted it was in Gainesville, FL so not really the most dangerous projects on earth compelled to find some weed with a couple friends in toe who were not sure about the whole thing. They were not sure all the way up until we were high.

That is how I knew there was a difference I was locked on, it was my mission to find it and nothing was going to stop me. Once I did there was NO turning back. Now I am on medications that help to mitigate that problem. But realize you might have this and it will make the process of sobriety a mother fucker for you. If it were not for my lower spine being a wreck I would not even be on pain meds, though I do not allow myself to take anything other than methadone, I tried the subutex road for nearly a year and the pain was just too real to handle. If you followed my posts since I made my big comeback to bluelight after getting out of the army you know that I tried with every ounce of my soul not to switch to methadone but now that I have I have to be honest in that it completely takes away any and all cravings for opiates and bring my pain down to a 2 or 3 when I was on subutex it was a daily 6-8 depending on the day.

Without ANY pain meds it is a 9.5 all day. I only say 9.5 because I save 10 for pain where I can not move. I use a different scale for acute pain AKA I fell out of an airplane and I just mushed my spine, broke my leg, and hit my head really hard that one goes up to 20. I feel like there is the pain that you live with on a daily basis, and then there is the pain that CAUSED that pain to happen, which is why I keep two different pain scales in my head. But ya that is my take on it.

This is very interesting and might explain my addiction to milk... The casomorphins and tryptophan play a BIG role in my mood day to day and I get unquenchable cravings for it. I too get addicted to things very easily and have found life to be a bore when not high. I have also found that dopamine plays a part in time perception i.e time flies when I have a lot of it (on an opiate) but when I don't have enough the day drags on and I find myself looking at the clock often. This is something that certainly needs to be researched more.

 

[Doctor.K]

Is Phenylethylamine safe to combine with Klonopin and Lexapro??

I'd like to try it.

Klonopin yes but I'm not so sure about the Lexapro i'd look it up.

 

[SickWithRA]

Definitely an interesting post.

 

[Ninae]

Is Phenylethylamine safe to combine with Klonopin and Lexapro??

I'd like to try it.

Very safe, yes. An essential amino acid used to synthesise all proteins so does your body a world of good. Just don't take too much or you might end up a bit tweaked/over-stimulated.

Also great for problems with endorphin downgrade after opiate abuse. It's being used for pain patients to potentiate their painkillers too. I've been meaning to make a thread about this as it could help so many.

 

[Mycophile]

Very safe, yes. An essential amino acid used to synthesise all proteins so does your body a world of good. Just don't take too much or you might end up a bit tweaked/over-stimulated.

Also great for problems with endorphin downgrade after opiate abuse. It's being used for pain patients to potentiate their painkillers too. I've been meaning to make a thread about this as it could help so many.

Huh, so therefore it's probably safe to mix with Kratom as well?

Should I avoid drinking on it?

I don't wanna run through the ENTIRE list of drugs I could mix it with lol, but those are the main ones I use these days.

And are you saying it somehow boosts the effects of caffeine?

Cause I drink a SHITLOAD of coffee and would prefer to be able to use less.

 

[Mycophile]

Klonopin yes but I'm not so sure about the Lexapro i'd look it up.

Is it an MAO inhibitor?

 

[yacob]

mad dash i never really thought much about it in that way but youre 100% spot on about always being so curious as a kid before even knowing what it really was, i dont think i even knew how people could use drugs. like smoking anything other than a cigarette just never registered but that desire to find out what the end result was like to experience, which was getting fucked up and having a blast, was subconiously there it seems. now i dont remember a day in which i didnt "medicate" within 10 minutes of being awake in some form, its literally just set in stone. i dont even need much at all, ive had days where a couple mini-thins would give me the boost i needed but its literally always something to either boost me up or force me to go to sleep, and force is needed to say the least. people like what mad dash & theOP described hopefully can be fixed because i fear a life time ahead of not being able to fix myself which will undoubtedly directly result in dying prematurely, its already most likely predisposed some terrible shit when i get old anyway so its not going to be bliss even if i do get normal and boring, which at this point sounds appealing in so many ways. but ill get sober/clean out my system and then just feel the need to reward myself for the hard work in cleansing my body and taking steps to get better...with getting high. maybe we can fix our brains someday if we can keep advancing in science at a rapid pace but probably not. not sure how many more bouts i can win quite frankly before the flood gates give way, its becoming too close for comfort. its scary being genuinely unsure

 

[Foreigner]

You know how some people prefer opiates and downers, and others stimulants? Well I'm definitely a stimulant guy. I'm wondering if there's a genetic basis for this... like, we naturally have something missing in our brains so we seek out therapeutic biochemicals to help us out. I mean look at the ethnic demographics... the populations where stimulant and opiate use tend to be highest, or lowest. I know that's controversial to say, but.

Opiates do fuck all for me... I was on dilaudid and I hated it. I felt high but it wasn't pleasant. Maybe heroin would be different, but not like I'm going to try that! But give me some chocolate or an amphetamine and life feels like it's full of possibilities again. I wouldn't say I'm addicted... I can go long stretches without any substances, but the difference can be like night and day when I do have something. And I know people will say, "Yeah because drugs feel good!"... and that's true, but I'm talking about something beyond that. It's as though the drugs are somehow... nutritive?... they provide something that is instrinsically lacking.

On the other hand, maybe if I made radical changes to my lifestyle and lived in a better part of the world, or outside of this fucked up capitalist system that is sooo stressful, I wouldn't feel like anything is lacking. Doubtful though. I've lived in 5 different countries and all over my home country, and done years upon years of therapy to get past my personal problems. I still seem to have this neurochemical thing going on.

Maybe we're framing this wrong? Maybe humans are meant to have a relationship with nature where these biochemistries are provided, and they would be if we didn't live under some artificial circumstances. Maybe that I'm lacking is actually normal

I think it's mostly the Phenylethylamine, which supports natural endorphin production. Try L-Phenylalanine‎ or DLPA (more stimulating). Amino acids make a dramatic effect in the right doses.

I'll research that, thanks.

 

[Ninae]

Huh, so therefore it's probably safe to mix with Kratom as well?

Should I avoid drinking on it?

I don't wanna run through the ENTIRE list of drugs I could mix it with lol, but those are the main ones I use these days.

And are you saying it somehow boosts the effects of caffeine?

Cause I drink a SHITLOAD of coffee and would prefer to be able to use less.

I read about it being used to potentiate Kratom and other opiates. There's an old thread about it here. Some take huge doses of DLPA as a substitute for Adderall but it only peaks for about 30 minutes.