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Speed Question???

dustshuffla

Bluelighter
Joined
Nov 2, 2003
Messages
67
I have noticed that most street speed atm is of very poor quality and I attribute this to the lack of easy access to Pseudoephedrine and the use of its accessible alternative being Ketone (An industrial chemical used in pvc plumbing glues and thinners).

My questions are:

(1) Is this method of speed production more chemically toxic to the user (Ketone is a well known Carcinogen)?

(2) Is the mixing of ketone based speed with puedo based speed dangerous / more toxic etc.

Friends of mine have noticed ketone base is far more chemical in its presentation and taste. They have also reported muscular pain and very sore eyes (behind the eyes). Is it possible that these symptoms are a result of this inferior method of production or are these symptoms attributable to other nasties from dodgy production methods/chemicals?
 
I had quite a bad experience with some speed a month ago - see: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=176553&r=26

It took me a good month to "come down" from the post effects such as anxiety, pressure in my head and neck, temperature flushes, no appetite and feeling lost/crazy at times. To be honest it hasn't completely dissapeared as yet, though the effects are subsiding slowly but surely.

The speed that I had was a dark brown colour with a very chemical smell. It tasted, smelt and looked like shit, it was a bit sticky and when I cut it for myself so it wasn't so harsh it became quite clumpy with the glucose.

I've since heard that this speed was to quote "different" and may have been synthesised from alternative ingredients. The effect of this speed was different to usual - it is what we called "smacky speed" in that your head and your heart were racing and I was talking at 100mph however I was quite lethargic and didn't have the enery or motivation to move.

All I can say is if you come across this, avoid it like the plague, or at the least don't hit it too hard for too long. The hell my body went through for a few weeks while my mind got itself back together is something that no one should ever have to go through. I had no history of anxiety, mental issues etc before this incident, and I spent a month learning the hard way what they were because of this stuff. Hopefully now it stays away for good!!!
 
it is what we called "smacky speed" in that your head and your heart were racing and I was talking at 100mph however I was quite lethargic and didn't have the enery or motivation to move.

that sounds like fucking terrible gear...
 
There's often confusion regarding ketones and meth manufacture.

P-2-P; aka phenyl -2- propanone or benzyl methyl ketone

While the P-2-P ketone route to meth is more complex than the usual reduction processes employed for pseudo, an experienced chemist would normally prefer this over the pseudo route if he was after the purest product (and not the most money for the least time). A route that employs a ketone intermediate can allow for better purification.

BUT, although meth is meth, not all Meths are equal. The end products from each procedure are distinctly different.

Different in the sense that if each process resulted in a theoretical 100% yield, the ketone route product would only contain half of the more active dextro-rotatory isomer, where-as the pseudo product is 100% dextro-rotatory (d) meth. With ephedrine or pseudo, the amine is already attached to meth's chiral (second alkyl) carbon and so the configuration is unchanged during synthesis.

With the ketone routes however, the chiral carbon is turned into an essentially flat molecule (planar) at the ketone stage. 'Adding' the amine (reductive amination) results in the chiral carbon-nitrogen bond orientating itself so that the 'methylamine tail ' of the molecule either sticks out one side or the other.

This occurs because of the angles of available attack. The amine can approach from either side and so has a 50-50 chance of attacking from the front or back of the C=O (ketone carbonyl group) and results in a 50:50 dextro- levo product.

Separation requires a pure isomer of tartaric acid or similar resolving agent together with some tricky washing. The alternatives using chromatography are time consuming so it's unlikely this isomer separation would be done for street gear.





Don't get P-2-P confused with MBK or acetone. All 3 are ketones and all three can be used in meth manufacture. MBK can be used to wash or crystallize the final product. It has a characteristic ketone odour. MBK is included in many paint thinner preparations, also often used as a source of acetone.

Because the ketone routes are much more involved than the more simple pseudo processes, some chemical understanding is essential. Often impurities are present at the ketone stage. These need to be removed by distillation and purity checked using a bisulphite adduct or similar method.

Benzaldehyde was once often used as a starting material for the ketone route. Other routes went via benzaldehyde but started from toluene, benzyl alcohol or benzoic acid. Other methods include starting from chlorobenzene, or using the synthetic tools found in cyanide compounds, nitro-oxime routes and Grignard chemistry.

To be honest if you know what you're doing, meth can be made from almost any simple starting material which contains an aromatic ring. And there are just as many possibilities starting with completely benign materials that build up the ring.

Restricting precursor and staring materials, while in some ways necessary, always tends to breed improvisation. The "rough" tools of organic chemistry are the indispensable solvents, cleaning agents, and food products found everywhere. What it means for the end user is that the product potentially contains impurities from each of these extra steps and ingredient preparations.


Oh, and to address your second question; it should not matter at all if both products are relatively pure.
 
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Hi, Phase Dancer,

are there any subjective differences between the Dextro and Levo meth varieties??

like, can someone FEEL the difference between say, 50/50, 100% D and 100% L types, if they had samples of them??

Psuedo cooked speed always seems, less good, to me... maybe beucase the psuedo cook cuts his shit badly too though...

peece.
 
ive had some pretty average base recently, could be put down to these controlled ingredients i guess? meh
 
Psuedo cooked speed always seems, less good, to me... maybe beucase the psuedo cook cuts his shit badly too though...

Umm yeah... cutting would be the reason...

Pseudo synth will easily make meth that'll blow your fucking socks off :p

It all depends how well they do the synthesis, what ratio they cut to, and what their cutting agent\s are

OH...

COULD SOMEONE PLEASE EXPLAIN WHY THE FUCK SOME PEOPLE CALL METH "BASE" !?
 
LOL shorza, you netgeek ;)

The effect of this speed was different to usual - it is what we called "smacky speed" in that your head and your heart were racing and I was talking at 100mph however I was quite lethargic and didn't have the enery or motivation to move.
Were you smoking it? A lot of people (myself included) feel this way when too much meth is smoked at once. It basically pins you to the couch for a while. I wouldn't say it was unpleasant though. [edit: sorry, ignore this, I can't read properly - thought I'd leave it in anyway as perspective]

I was under the impression that most of Australia's meth is still synthed in South East Asia? And to my mind, pseudoephedrine and ephedrine are still easy to get here, despite governments starting to crack down.
 
Hi, Phase Dancer,

are there any subjective differences between the Dextro and Levo meth varieties??

like, can someone FEEL the difference between say, 50/50, 100% D and 100% L types, if they had samples of them??

armadilliO is correct. You can find out more on this by searching this forum for methamphetamine.


Psuedo cooked speed always seems, less good, to me... maybe beucase the psuedo cook cuts his shit badly too though...

It's all in the ability-ethical principles of the cook as to whether it's a clean product. As a general rule, purity is also related to the number of steps between producer and end user.


I was under the impression that most of Australia's meth is still synthed in South East Asia? And to my mind, pseudoephedrine and ephedrine are still easy to get here, despite governments starting to crack down.

You are probably correct, I don't really know. One hears third hand stories, many of which often conflict. I think it's probably more accurate to refer to the greater Asian region though. As for local availability; I think it's still early days yet. Legislation is tightening all the time and I can see a day when every gram of legally imported pseudo is accounted for.
 
spoon_77 said:
The effect of this speed was different to usual - it is what we called "smacky speed" in that your head and your heart were racing and I was talking at 100mph however I was quite lethargic and didn't have the enery or motivation to move.

All I can say is if you come across this, avoid it like the plague, or at the least don't hit it too hard for too long. [/B]

this is like what most of the speed i've come across lately. i dont feel like doing shit but i'm so talkative and stay awake for ages. i dont mind it too much, it feels kinda relaxing, but i prefer the 'traditional' stuff.
 
Spoon77

Is that stuf like thick like Peanut Butter ? and look just like it?

If it is. Than similar stuff my mate gets (i have not used) He reckons it's ACE!!! Maybe it was more-so the Quantity that you had.... I dont know Im just tryin to think wot would glue u down like that???

Ket??? Well when I have MDMA n Ket pills I feel euphorical with my ass glued to the ground!!! BUZZIN ALL THE EFFECTS... GLUED ASS!

As has been said all depends on the cook and the synthesis they use!

SpecTBK=D
 
I haven't seen that putty peanut butter looking stuff for about 5 years now. I didn't like the look of it then and I seriously hate the look of the stuff now. A person who apparently knows a fair amount about the different apperances of speed we see. This person said the this gluggy tacky redy brown speed is due to a hack job on the extraction of pseudoephedrine. Recently a number of new additive where put into OTC pseudoephedrine product to make methamphetamine production harder. I would probably attribute the increase in this tacky gluggy speed to the change in the pseudo pills contents.
However I could be completely wrong.
 
Hey dudes, well it seems like all the meth around perth at the moment seems to all be the 'coloured' (ie cut) variaties. Coloured with food dye by the look of it, this seems to be becoming more and more common place, however its also unfortuantly usualy ground to a fine dry powder too.

Anyone else been seeing shit like this? But then again, hold on, 'cause this morning i picked up a half g of 'pink champagne' which was actually crystals not powder, however its still had the 'food dye' treatment, and is really moist and smelly. Oh yeah....=D

By the way does anyone have any idea what injecting food dye (or worse chalk) would do to ones health? I'm guessing not much compared to the active ingredient anyways....:\
 
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