sore back,neck and spine.

[Cumminz]

i dropped 3 pill's over the weekend (fri and sat nite) and was fine on sunday and monday but come tuesday i felt like shit , my lower back was killing me and my neck and upper spine felt like they were about to break, i told this to a werk mate who roll's aswell and he said it's the case of ropey tuesday , he said if you drop on a sat nite usually on the following tuesday you're fucked.

Anyway the next day wednesaday i felt a little better but halfway through the day my back and neck started hurting again and it is hurting evan more toaday (thursday) , is this because i've drained alot of seretoin out of my spine? how long before it stop's hurting?

 

[BigTrancer]

You can't drain your spinal fluid with MDMA - that's a myth.

What's most likely IMO is that your back pain comes from exhaustion and being upright for a long time. It's common to experience delayed onset of muscle soreness, a couple of days after exertion... if you were up all weekend dancing and running around like a nutter, then it's natural that you'd feel a sore back, neck etc., in the few days after. This can be made even worse if you're significantly dehydrated due to sweating.

BigTrancer

 

[superbabydoc]

I always get neck and back pain after MDMA and from amphetamines too. On one occasion I had it much worse than normal, I'm not sure why it was so bad on that occasion, but it was agony. Anyhow, try taking some non-steroidal anti-inflammatory medicine, like ibuprofen/Nurofen, Voltaren etc - you can buy these at any chemist. Applying a heat pack can also help relieve pain, and a massage would help too. Gentle stretching and exercise will help too, such as walking. I also find going for a spa at the local pool helps a great deal. Failing all that, if it persists, consider seeing a physiotherapist or an osteopath.

 

[Urbanhog]

or you can use the good old tiger balm.... some people don't like the smell, but I think this stuff ROCKS! as I brought a box of them when I was at Singapore as it was a hell a lot cheaper than in Australia.

Urbanhog %)

 

[Dirty_Deed]

Just wondering...I used to also get lower back pai (not neck though) after a night of pills. And the thing is, I don't go clubbing at all really, I just did it at a mates place, laxed out (chillin') and not exertingmyself at all. Just sitting around peaking and smoking really...so can anyone tell me why I had lower back pains after pills???

 

[SkiNLaB]

i get this 2, in fact i experienced it as i was coming up, forgot about it, and the next day there it is.

but i havent got the best back, so it could just be my imagination.

 

[Dirty_Deed]

I'm not too sure about the draining of spinal fluid is a myth. Maybe it doesn't drain, but from what a bio-chemist told me, it does effect the spine....He's written a book about drugs in general, but unfortunately it is banned in Australia....would it be okay to post some excerpts from this book when I get a copy??

 

[BigTrancer]

^ Define 'effect'. If you want to assert something as the truth, then by all means reference it. You should probably contact the author if you wish to copy more than a paragraph or two into the public domain.

However, be prepared for this argument to come under close scrutiny, because the last thing we need is people going 'Hah see i told you it drains spinal fluid, y0', because they've misconstrued something someone else has written about... Please make the point you're trying to illustrate very clear (meaning, we don't need to have the whole book cut and pasted into here, just the relevant passage to back up your contention).

BigTrancer

 

[phase_dancer]

^^...also include any references the author bases his reasoning on.

In the past we've seen the spinal fluid thing come and go. Initially it was thought that MDMA may cause a drop in CSF, but latter it was shown that only certain metabolites were altered. Levels of 5-HIAA, the major metabolite of serotonin, is lowered in regular MDMA users, but this is thought to be more reflective of depleted serotonin. Nothing new here, but what is, is that there is more talk of using this as a marker for MDMA induced toxicity.

But do not get confused with levels of a particular metabolite and actual CSF fluid, which for all intents and purposes can be considered more or less one with brain fluid. That's why it is known as cerebrospinal fluid or CSF. It circulates through and around the central canal of the spinal cord and superior sagittal sinus into the deepest parts of the brain, picking up "used" neurotransmitter waste products as it circulates. CSF also acts as a shock absorber, and a diffusion medium for dissolved gases, and chemical messengers.

So knowing that, you can read the following understanding that it dosen't say anywhere that CSF is depleted, but rather levels of 5-HT (serotonin) and 5-HIAA are, and that this is thought to be representative of reduced brain serotonin levels.

What's interesting is that this may be able to indicate long term serotonin levels more acuartely than some PET techniques which can miss something not lit up with a radio ligand.

Neuropsychopharmacology 2001 Mar;24(3):230-9
Functional consequences of repeated (+/-)3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA) treatment in rhesus monkeys.

Taffe MA, Weed MR, Davis S, Huitron-Resendiz S, Schroeder R, Parsons LH, Henriksen SJ, Gold LH.

Department of Neuropharmacology, The Scripps Research Institute, La Jolla, CA 92037, USA. [email protected]

Six rhesus monkeys were trained to stable performance on neuropsychological tests of memory, reinforcer efficacy, reaction time and bimanual motor coordination. Three monkeys were then exposed to a high-dose, short course regimen of (+/-)3,4-Methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA, "Ecstasy") (4 days, 10 mg/kg i.m., b.i.d.). Following treatment, concentrations of 5-hydroxyindoleacetic acid (5-HIAA) in cerebrospinal fluid (CSF) were reduced by approximately 50% in the treated animals, and this effect persisted for approximately three months post-MDMA. Behavioral performance was disrupted during acute MDMA treatment but returned to baseline within one week following treatment.

MDMA also produced persistent alterations in late peak latencies of brainstem auditory evoked potentials (BSAEP), lasting three months post-MDMA. Both CSF 5-HIAA concentrations and evoked potential latencies were normalized four months after treatment. These findings indicate that serotonergic alterations associated with MDMA use may result in persisting changes in brain function.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11166514&dopt=Abstract

Brain Res 1988 Dec 6;474(2):359-63

5-Hydroxyindoleacetic acid in cerebrospinal fluid reflects serotonergic damage induced by 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine in CNS of non-human primates.

Ricaurte GA, DeLanney LE, Wiener SG, Irwin I, Langston JW.

Department of Neurology, Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine, Baltimore, MD 21205

This study examined whether 5-hydroxyindoleacetic acid (5-HIAA) in cerebrospinal fluid (CSF) could be used to detect serotonergic damage induced by (+/-)-3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA) in the central nervous system (CNS) of non-human primates. Monkeys were administered toxic doses of MDMA; two weeks later, the animals were lightly anesthetized with ether and CSF was obtained by means of cervical puncture. Later that same day, the animals were killed for direct determination of CNS serotonin and 5-HIAA concentrations.

Monkeys with 73-94% depletions of serotonin and 5-HIAA in brain and 42-45% depletions of serotonin and 5-HIAA in the spinal cord had a 60 +/- 7% reduction of 5-HIAA in CSF, without any change in homovanillic acid (HVA) or 3-methoxy-4-hydroxyphenethyleneglycol (MHPG). These findings indicate that CSF 5-HIAA can be employed to detect central serotonergic damage produced by MDMA in non-human primates, and suggest that CSF 5-HIAA may be useful for detecting MDMA-induced neuronal damage in humans.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=2463059&dopt=Abstract

 

[Tabernacle]

It's not too scientific yet i definately feel that there is something in this back problem conundrum to do with feeling hot inside and cold outside. Having just recently recovered from one such instance i'm almost sure that it was due to sitting outside in the freezing cold for so long and not realising it as i was fcuked feeling all warm inside. Then going to sleep inside a nice warm environment when i was completely freezing had to do something.

 

[Halo 99]

it's usualy the things you DO on MDMA not the MDMA itself. ive done if from pot and grog before. jumping around too much. stuff like that. could be they way you were sleeping?

 

[Jubas]

also
if you don't exert yourself and just sit on a couch all night, there's a very simple possible explanation. posture. i've had back problems since i was about 16 (soccer injury). If i sit in a bad position for a couple of hours, my lower back starts killing. I've noticed than when you do sit and talk for hours, you can't feel your back at all so it might just be that you're slouched, and your back is slowly getting worse.

Most of the clubs i've been to have fantastic couches, but they provide no support whatsoever, unless you sit straight up with your feet firmly on the ground... and i mean, come on, who wants to do that?

 

[phase_dancer]

Another thing people forget is that MDMA can make a person less sensitive to pain. Some cancer patients in great pain have reported complete alleviation from using MDMA. As Jubas said, it is not uncommon for a person on a strong dose of MDMA to sit for some time in one position, sometimes in rather contorted positions. If the sense of pain is reduced, it's possible an uncomfortable back or strained muscle may not be not noticed till later.

There's also the dehydration issue. Placing a greater load on the kidneys may result in the surrounding muscles becoming affected, giving a sore back feeling the next day. Vigorous activity, or the reasons given here may not satisfactorily explain a back condition, but it's worth thinking about your actions while rolling. If in doubt see your Doc. It could always be something else.

 

[3munch3r]

I get this too. I suspect its occurs during sleep.

I have found that I get sore neck and sholders regardless of the party location, at home or at club. Its definitely related to the amount of MDMA you've consumed.

Small doses do not seem to effect me as much as those when I get completely trashed.

When I go to sleep I always feel fine, when I wake up though I have soreness and some tenseness. I think i might be related to jaw clenching and general effects the drug has on your muscles.

My thoughts on the subject, anyways.


Be Safe...

 

[Negro-kitty]

I always suffer joint pain on stimulants (including MDMA)...I feel it has to do with lack of blood flow due to vasoconstriction...as well as the fact that being cold (again due to VC) is generally uncomfortable for joints. This is my personal theory...

 

[MOTOMAN]

It's abvious that it does tense all your mucles up, otherwise massages wouldn't feel as good, and guys dicks wouldn't shrink!

Maybe some people have some tender spots on their bodys that react badly when they get tense. I duno for sure, but it's just a guess.

 

[SteveElektro]

As Jubas said, it is not uncommon for a person on a strong dose of MDMA to sit for some time in one position, sometimes in rather contorted positions.

LMAO So true, although it's alot worse with meth for me, I once sat in a rather contorted position for around five hours, only to get up, fall straight back down, and realise I'd given myself the worst dead leg of all time, outside amputation. It took about 20 minutes for feeling to fully return to my leg, most of which was occupied with the worst case of pins and needles I've ever had.

 

[BigTrancer]

^ Cutting off your own circulation can be a serious problem, e.g., passing out on drugs and lying awkwardly, cutting off circulation to an extremity for an extended period of time.

Called 'compartment syndrome' or 'crush syndrome', the result of pressure on the limb can cause the veins to become compromised; ultimately requiring surgical intervention such as amputation.

Case reports

During April 1989 to July 1993, 11 patients were admitted to this infirmary with the crush syndrome secondary to a drug overdose. They were all referred for orthopaedic assessment after a considerable delay - mean 35 hours (table). Nine patients were men. The mean age was 31 years (range 20-54 years). As all the patients had been unconscious for an unknown length of time before presentation, the delay from time of injury until medical attention was given could not always be assessed. Four patients were unconscious on admission. Ten patients had taken an overdose of sedatives or painkillers, and one patient had carbon monoxide poisoning. During the period of unconsciousness their torso had compressed one or more limbs: in six patients an arm, in five patients a leg, and in one patient both legs. None of the patients had any bony injuries. Signs of raised intracompartmental pressure were noted on admission in nine patients.

[...]

Six out of 11 patients needed haemodialysis. Three patients died. Of the eight survivors, seven had disastrous outcomes: four patients had at least one leg amputated and four patients had extensive muscle debridement leaving severe residual deficits. Only one patient had a good functional result with minimal residual deficits. Two of the eight surviving patients had permanently impaired renal function.

From: A.D. Shaw, S.U. Sjolin, M.M. McQueen, "Lesson of the Week: Crush syndrome following unconsciousness: need for urgent orthopaedic referral", British Medical Journal 309, pp:857-859, (1994)

BigTrancer

 

[Mr TIMO]

^ scary shit

ive woken up with a dead arm probably 10 times in my life. seems to happen more when im tired. so if you're having a more restless sleep, you're moving around and so it won't happen.