Opioids So I wont get withdrawal from tianeptine as long as I dont take it every day right?

[Moredopamine]

Any use of any immediately reinforcing and euphorigenic drug will being the chain of cellular signaling cascades that lead to substance abuse and, potentially, eventual substance dependence - and thus withdrawal upon discontinuation of the drug.

 

[Anamo7tram]

There is such a double standard about the use of drugs for self improvement. Its forbidden to use illicit drugs for it but its A ok to use doctor prescribed anti depressants.

Kratom has improved my productivity when im on it. Im not slavishly attached to it like ppl insist I would be. I take it only once every few days. Took a month off recently. No biggy.

Am actully against the use of any psych drugs, even legal ones, the exception being antipsychotics.

If your depressed, change your life not your brain, am a firm believer that no one is born depressed or ADHD, but that the environment is mismatched with their psychy.

 

[Mycophile]

Am actully against the use of any psych drugs, even legal ones, the exception being antipsychotics.

If your depressed, change your life not your brain, am a firm believer that no one is born depressed or ADHD, but that the environment is mismatched with their psychy.

Whether or not people are BORN with depression or anxiety is less the issue IMO.

If you have it, you have it.

Of course overall the most healthy thing is to deal with them without overuse of drugs, but drugs can still be extremely helpful.

I have an anxiety disorder, and whether or not I was born with it, Klonopin is very helpful for me and I can be more productive when on it in confronting anxiety producing situations and can't see how it could be considered wrong to ever use it to help me through them.

To be 100% dependent on ALWAYS taking something like that to face life is of course bad, but SOME usage for that reason is totally understandable IMO.

I don't think we should come down on the OP so hard for wanting something to help him with lifes stressors.

Most of us here have used a drug for to deal with stress, anxiety or depression at one time or another.


Also, you say 'if you are depressed change your life not your brain" but many times changing your brain is necessary to change your life.

Many of us can use substances to confront new situations, which then changes our life which changes our brain and then afterwards lower the dosage or the drug or not take it at all and have an improved life at that point.

Also, as far as not being born with mental illness, certain mental illnesses have been scientifcally proven.

Bipolar/Manic depression for example, is a scientific and medically proven FACT which is barely challenged by anyone anymore, and results in a difference in brain activity and needs medication to treat.

http://www.mhanp.org/mayoclinic.bipolar.html

 

[Mycophile]

Any use of any immediately reinforcing and euphorigenic drug will being the chain of cellular signaling cascades that lead to substance abuse and, potentially, eventual substance dependence - and thus withdrawal upon discontinuation of the drug.

POTENTIALLY is the key word here IMO.

That doesn't mean that anyone who uses any euphoric drug will become physically dependent on it.

IMO PSYCHOLOGICAL dependence of one form or another, if you continue to use the drug, is probably closer to being unavoidable eventually.

 

[pinpoint]

^ Physical dependence is the inevitability of chronic mu agonism. The key word is 'chronic'.. nobody is going to get a physical dependence from one-off usage but everyone will develop one with chronic administration regardless of whether they have a psychological addiction (re: chronic pain patients).

 

[Mycophile]

^ Physical dependence is the inevitability of chronic mu agonism. The key word is 'chronic'.. nobody is going to get a physical dependence from one-off usage but everyone will develop one with chronic administration regardless of whether they have a psychological addiction (re: chronic pain patients).

Agreed, but what is considered "chronic"??

So far (fingers crossed) using plain leaf Kratom 3 times a week hasn't cause me to develop serious physical dependence other than some very minor RLS or a tiny bit of irritability, so I think I can keep that going indefinitely, but I can't deny I have a PSYCHOLOGICAL dependence/craving for it...albeit one I think I could stop if I really had a reason or desire for it, at the very least for a while.

 

[Anamo7tram]

Agreed, but what is considered "chronic"??

So far (fingers crossed) using plain leaf Kratom 3 times a week hasn't cause me to develop serious physical dependence other than some very minor RLS or a tiny bit of irritability, so I think I can keep that going indefinitely, but I can't deny I have a PSYCHOLOGICAL dependence/craving for it...albeit one I think I could stop if I really had a reason or desire for it, at the very least for a while.

I believe the euphoric effects of tianeptine start at 50mg. So perhaps that is chronic threshold.

I still stand with what I said, the more beat up you got, the more panic striken you are, the more you can handle it in the future, why take those drugs? To handle the toughest situations? But then you will crumble in tough situations.

The only use of drugs is occasional fun and knowledge, in moderation. Anything else is counter productive to the end your trying to reach.

Anxiety, depression, and all the other stuff is psychological, yes there are people more prone to them due to brain chemistry but these are the people that should avoid those drugs and work on themselfs.

Also Bipolar like all mentally illnesses , is not a fact in the proper scientific method, psychatry is pseudoscience, as far as I can see.

Nonetheless, even if bipolar is real, they only need antipsychotics, which if you look at my previous post, I excluded them from my criticism, since they may prevent dangoures behavior

 

[Mycophile]

I believe the euphoric effects of tianeptine start at 50mg. So perhaps that is chronic threshold.

I still stand with what I said, the more beat up you got, the more panic striken you are, the more you can handle it in the future, why take those drugs? To handle the toughest situations? But then you will crumble in tough situations.

The only use of drugs is occasional fun and knowledge, in moderation. Anything else is counter productive to the end your trying to reach.

Anxiety, depression, and all the other stuff is psychological, yes there are people more prone to them due to brain chemistry but these are the people that should avoid those drugs and work on themselfs.

Also Bipolar like all mentally illnesses , is not a fact in the proper scientific method, psychatry is pseudoscience, as far as I can see.

Nonetheless, even if bipolar is real, they only need antipsychotics, which if you look at my previous post, I excluded them from my criticism, since they may prevent dangoures behavior

Sorry, I strongly disagree with a lot of your points.

You must not have an anxiety disorder or depression to have the view points you hold.

Panic attacks are real, depression is real, these things can be extremely difficult at times to handle without medications and using medications to help with them will not always weaken an individual.

There are chemical reasons for a lot of these disorders despite the fact that there are also environmental factors, both are almost always a part of any mental illness.

I dont' think psychiatry is pseudoscience, I believe that it is in fact becoming more and more of a hard science and Bipolar has absolutely been proven as fact and that it has genetic factors and that one can be born with it.

I don't think you have ever had a panic attack for example, but if you had you would see how useful anti-anxiety drugs are.

Many times people who are anxiety stricken or have deep depression can only tackle their fears with the help of drugs, but then afterwards will be stronger for having concurred those fears even despite the fact that they used drugs to help with them.

For example, if you are dealing with a severe agoraphobic who is afraid to leave their own house then good luck getting them to tackle their fears without a medication, but many times the use of a benzo or anti-anxiety med combined with therapy will give them the ability to leave their houses and tackle their fears.

Later on, once they are out of the house, the medication can be tapered down until they can leave their houses without medication.

 

[Anamo7tram]

It's becouse I have dealt with those things long enough that I hold my opnion so strongly.

In fact I just had to admit a loved one the psych ward yesterday, couse he had a paranoid reaction mixed with bipolar mania, which his current doctor said he does not have. Needless to say , if bipolar disorder exists, I experienced being around it.

And I also experienced anxiety and depression, in fact I still do, and I consider them to be highly aggressive in me, I don't get panic attacks so much but just feeling hopeless, empty and consistently on the edge of panic but never getting there.

I would get drunk for job interviews, talking to girls, or many times alone.

I tried the drugs, and they worked damn well, but it is not the solution, it's a temperory patch that will suck the life out of you.

Am much better now, I can talk to attractive girls without pissing my pants, I can go to job interviews and behave like a normal human being, I can sit alone and not feel lonliness, I can feel happy and know am really happy and not high. And whenever I fail, It makes me stronger, and the most importent thing, is that I can see a future that am slowly reaching, faliure by faliure, till I reach tranquility.

The secret is not just to not use drugs to solve your problems, but to work on the probloms and yourself.

 

[deruyityn]

^ Physical dependence is the inevitability of chronic mu agonism. The key word is 'chronic'.. nobody is going to get a physical dependence from one-off usage but everyone will develop one with chronic administration regardless of whether they have a psychological addiction (re: chronic pain patients).

That was never up for debate. That is obvious like saying taking large doses of mdma will cuase a comedown; no shit! the question is how much more enticing tianeptine is than kratom in terms of the risk involved in causing a psychologcal dependance which would lead to constant dosing.

Usually what stops me are annoying side effects like having a hangover the next day or constipation say. That was the case with kratom making it 'self limiting'. I get extremely irritated by the slightest negative side effects of drugs.

Also dont encourage the self righteous 'no drugs' advocates who always pop out of the woodwork when I make threads on depression. I dont wanna hear it so keep it to yourself thanks. They have no idea how tired I am of hearing 'you just didnt try hard enough' like I havent tried all the 'handy hints to depsression' they suggested.

 

[Mycophile]

It's becouse I have dealt with those things long enough that I hold my opnion so strongly.

In fact I just had to admit a loved one the psych ward yesterday, couse he had a paranoid reaction mixed with bipolar mania, which his current doctor said he does not have. Needless to say , if bipolar disorder exists, I experienced being around it.

And I also experienced anxiety and depression, in fact I still do, and I consider them to be highly aggressive in me, I don't get panic attacks so much but just feeling hopeless, empty and consistently on the edge of panic but never getting there.

I would get drunk for job interviews, talking to girls, or many times alone.

I tried the drugs, and they worked damn well, but it is not the solution, it's a temperory patch that will suck the life out of you.

Am much better now, I can talk to attractive girls without pissing my pants, I can go to job interviews and behave like a normal human being, I can sit alone and not feel lonliness, I can feel happy and know am really happy and not high. And whenever I fail, It makes me stronger, and the most importent thing, is that I can see a future that am slowly reaching, faliure by faliure, till I reach tranquility.

The secret is not just to not use drugs to solve your problems, but to work on the probloms and yourself.

I agree with not using them "to solve your problems" but if used PROPERLY they can HELP with your problems.

Congrats on being able to do it without drugs, but some people have needed and do need them.

I just can't be against anything that can possibly help.

If you don't want to use them that's great, but I can't just stand up and say they have never helped and do not help anyone.

I don't think you or I or probably anyone in the world is in a position where it's right to do that and speak for everyone.

 

[Moredopamine]

POTENTIALLY is the key word here IMO.

That doesn't mean that anyone who uses any euphoric drug will become physically dependent on it.

IMO PSYCHOLOGICAL dependence of one form or another, if you continue to use the drug, is probably closer to being unavoidable eventually.

Well, yes, what you say is not false.

 

[Bigazznugz]

so if you are on methadone and stop taking tianeptine, will you still get withdraws?

 

[constipated99]

guys i need help and information.
i'm taking 100mg tieneptine/day to manage invega sustena injection withdrawals and to say the truth because i'm an addict.
after how many days should i expect wds from that stuff?
will suboxone take them away?

 

[Prescottdave]

guys i need help and information.
i'm taking 100mg tieneptine/day to manage invega sustena injection withdrawals and to say the truth because i'm an addict.
after how many days should i expect wds from that stuff?
will suboxone take them away?

Depends on your history of opioid use. If you have a history of opioid dependency you are likely to develop a small habit after ten days. Suboxone will cover most of the WD's and actually will be total overkill. If switching from tianeptine to sub I would not take anymore then 1mg.