smokable speed vs. ice

[hazza]

what is more difficult to synth? dimethyl or just meth?

 

[Splatt]

You need MethylEphedrine which isnt near as good as pseudo for clearing your nose up. But its in many asian OTC pills. Sometimes by itself, but often with APAP and other stuff. Its much, much cheaper and easier to get then ephedrine or pseudo thru customs. Its not used here at all. It can be made from Phenethylamine I think easily ? Or what I rememebr reading from PIHKAL.

 

[johnnyonelove]

i never get a rush, no matter how, or how much. first hour is still a lot of fun. its downhill from there, but i find it bearable, if not enjoyable. benzos do nothing for me. a few IV oxy's on the other hand.... though doesn't help with the insomnia factor.

 

[peaked]

In some of the earlier posts in this thread there is mention of "crystal amphetamine". Now, maybe I've interpreted this wrong, but immediately this made me think of shards similar to meth. I'd always been under the impression that "pure" amphetamine was more of a powder like substance substance that formed into "rocks" and not "shards". I've never actually seen it though (atleast, not in person).

Later in the thread, there is mention of different batches of "ice" having different effects - not just relating to the strength but the range of feelings produced. Now I can remember reading about some busts made on an ice lab a while back, and the method they were using to synthesize it produced only the d isomer of methamphetamine. Presumably this could produce slightly different effects to regular methamphetamine. Apparently it is stronger on a per-mg basis when its just the d-isomer (of meth) and not both.

 

[Splatt]

thr d-isomer of meth is the only one that withh get you high, l-methamphetamine doesn't do much at all. I think you mean dimethylamphetamine.

 

[peaked]

I had always thought that the L isomer of meth was active when combined with the d isomer, i.e. racemic meth, and that the effects produced were different from when one has the d isomer alone. Maybe i'm just confusing this with something else.

 

[djsim]

I had always thought that the L isomer of meth was active when combined with the d isomer, i.e. racemic meth, and that the effects produced were different from when one has the d isomer alone. Maybe i'm just confusing this with something else.

The l isomer is weaker than the the d isomer, and it has a slightly different structure due to stereochemistry (same atoms make up the molecule, but in differing arrangements). The L isomer has it's effect, and the D isomer has its effect, they don't care whether or not they are mixed or not (except that when mixed, the D isomer will bind more strongly more often).
I would theorise that a racemic mixture of meth would be more pleasurable because it wouldn't be so intense as pure D isomer. I think it is seriously doubtful that D and L isomers act on different areas of the brain, but who knows? Maybe it's true.
The amount of L meth amphetamine doing the rounds would be negligable though as conversion of pseudoephedrine by the most common manufacture methods are sterocentre specific.

 

[zephyr]

There is no way in hell that this yellow/orange bassy shit is somehow filtered piss is there? I remember reading an article about it being done, and a piss lab being busted, which relied on the urine of meth users. Please tell me this is totally delusional and if it may be true that virus's can be passed through and i'm injecting some junkies hep or HIV? the potency is very low but the rush does something like you've done some real good gear.

I have this horrible image of a bunch of people and his family (as they all do meth, father, mother, son etc.) pissing into a big vat and drying it then doing some kind of solvent wash on it.

lol.



Several months ago I stumbled across what this yellowy substance is- burns just nicely in the beginning but doe not actually burn off at all. Leaves horrible black stain and stinks like old tires so the pipe needs constant cleaning.

Its a substance referred to as "honey" which is apparently "water glass" or sodium silicate. Sodium thiosulphate and poly ethylene glycol have same effect as this cutter.

This is around because msm does not blend in well with new alternative methods of making the shit anymore.


Meh.

Regardless, it cant be gotten rid of by blowing it out the pipe and acetone wash is slight improvement. The double solvent cleaning method is the way I had found cleaned the shit out best.

Funny how all dealers I have ever met "swear to god" they never cut their gear but always seem to have them on them.

Not worth it in the end.

 

[OND43X]

These are the Sydney and NSW slang words for different methamphetamine substances sold on street. amphetamine not included cos its extremely rare to find. aussies are too use to the harder hitting, longer lasting meth but i think amphetamine a maybe even purified dexamphetamine will become more common with precursor chemicals getting harder n more expensive to obtain. anyways...
#Speed= methamphetamine base that is cut with a substance (mainly glucose, or Vit B etc). white or yellow coloured(all depends what its cut with), powdery texture. normally cut 1 part base to bout 4 or 5 parts cutting agent. low quality but it all depends on how good u know ur supplier. is swallowed or snorted (leaves alot of residue if heated)
#Base= methamphetamine that can be white, yellow, red (ox blood) and brown. can be a gluggy wet texture, or liquid, or a dry crystalline texture. strong reconiseable smell. high quality with red and brown coloured base the favourite (but base can drop in quality if cut by person and sold again as "base." coffee is used to do this) usually swallowed, snorted or injected (leaves residue if heated)
#crystal meth/ice= clear, white or beige coloured (most i have seen has a pink tinge to it in light) crystalline texture with little to no smell (some i have smelt a sweet sorta smell) Highest purity when made. high quality (but can be cut by supplier and resold as "ice") usually smoked, or snorted (little clear residue when heated)
i dun agree with this;

Depends on your speed cook/dealer in what form does he get his stuff etc... I know people that used to buy an Oz of Ice and then crush and cut into speed after purchase of the *pure* product. But then there's guys that use their burnoff's and residues during manufacture of their meth as their cut and they cut their stuff there and then in the tray as they go.

why would some1 buy an ounce of ice, then crush it up n cut it and sell as speed?? n if ur buying that much y waste ur time selling gs?? thats how ppl end up loosing their money and product. [ every weekend is more freebees that is givin out ]
base is so much cheaper to buy in ounces (1/3rd) n why get ice to then just dice it and cut it up into speed?? very amatur like. i can say wat i gunna say cos time has been served and other ppl are still serving and case is closed! this person would buy 1 pound of meth base from near parramatta. then keep 1 ounce a week in syd. n take 3 ounces a week to newcastle. this was in 03-04. this person use to say, nothing under an ounce. he started with small amounts but got bigger cos when he bought only 1/2 ounces or ounces, he sold how he got it and made min profit per sale but sold alot.
Thats the worst thing about meth, speed, coke etc. its so easy to tamper with the quality!! will there ever be a day when no1 is trying to rip others off lol!

 

[OND43X]

Chaddeyevo3- makes what he calls "gas"(base) some of the shit turns out all wet an shit but some of it turns out like ice, but white instead of clear. I smoked a tiny bit and I loved it, its really strong, except quite a bit of residue. I have never been that wasted from any type of speed, I was up for 2 nights, ended up getting psychosis, went out and fucked someone id never met before. Then got home and realised WTF have I done. Sometimes xanax and speed dont mix.

the wet stuff just needs to dry out abit.. the white stuff ur talking bout sounds like normal base effects. base i been getting has very a very white, some faint yellow. wither dat or dark red brown base (havent had that kind for few months now)

 

[Just_A_Bloke]

Buying ice crushing it all, and cutting it to hell is most definitely done.

There was a guy where i used to live who did it all the time. I ask him why one time and he told me "Alot of people are scared of the stigma of ice, but want to use speed because they thing its not the same drug."

In that area, generally the going rate for ice was around XXX, and speed was XXX. Speed also had alot more demand, so after he jumped on it about 5 or 6 to 1, its obvious there is alot more cash for him.

Uni students, festival kids, and weekend pub drinkers were his target customers, people who want drugs but dont want to be associated with drugs. Dont know how common a practice it is, just thought id add i too have seen it going on.

[Edit- Removed prices. Please read the guidelines. lil angel15]

 

[hazza]

Buying ice crushing it all, and cutting it to hell is most definitely done.

There was a guy where i used to live who did it all the time. I ask him why one time and he told me "Alot of people are scared of the stigma of ice, but want to use speed because they thing its not the same drug."

In that area, generally the going rate for ice was around XXX, and speed was XXX. Speed also had alot more demand, so after he jumped on it about 5 or 6 to 1, its obvious there is alot more cash for him.

Uni students, festival kids, and weekend pub drinkers were his target customers, people who want drugs but dont want to be associated with drugs. Dont know how common a practice it is, just thought id add i too have seen it going on.

[Edit- Removed prices. Please read the guidelines. lil angel15]

lol...that would be funny doing that...i know i would end up putting aside a heap of straight pook and just devouring all that...fuck the cut shit....

but meh i unno...i had some good burn recently..only a few pionts, sorta wet powder. not base, but getter there...hadnt had a crackie for a while smoked about 3/4 of a point or so and i was actually pretty fried...its good doing it not soo much...u get soo fried off a point or 2.

 

[Christ!]

Buying ice crushing it all, and cutting it to hell is most definitely done.

There was a guy where i used to live who did it all the time. I ask him why one time and he told me "Alot of people are scared of the stigma of ice, but want to use speed because they thing its not the same drug."

In that area, generally the going rate for ice was around XXX, and speed was XXX. Speed also had alot more demand, so after he jumped on it about 5 or 6 to 1, its obvious there is alot more cash for him.

Uni students, festival kids, and weekend pub drinkers were his target customers, people who want drugs but dont want to be associated with drugs. Dont know how common a practice it is, just thought id add i too have seen it going on.

[Edit- Removed prices. Please read the guidelines. lil angel15]

Yeah I'm sure it's done with small time dealers but I can't see someone buying ounces and pounds bothering with that kind of thing.


(in my opinion)

 

[SteveElektro]

meth

There are two types of methamphetamine available. (Theres actually three but one of them is not recreational by itself).

These are:
L-methamphetamine
D-methamphetamine
Racemic methamphetamine.

L and D methamphetamine are simply mirror images of eachother, and racemic is a mixture of the two. To picture this, look at your hands. They are both the same, yet they are different. If you had two hands that had been cut off in front of you, you would be able to tell the difference between the left and right hands. They both have the same basic structure, but they are mirror images of eachother. This property is called chirality, and happens when a carbon is bonded to four different groups.
The different forms are called isomers of methamphetamine. Different isomers can have different effects on the body, given that strictly speaking, they have different structures. Think of l-meth as 'left handed' and d-meth as 'right handed'.

L-methamphetamine (or levo-methamphetamine) by itself is not really considered recreational. It has physical affects typical of amphetamines (increases heart rate, blood pressure) but does not produce much euphoria.

D-methamphetamine (or dextro-methamphetamine) is recreational, and d-meth alone is what is produced by the reduction of pseudoephedrine, as pseudoephedrine is just d-meth with an oxygen standing between one of the carbon - hydrogen bonds. Pull off that oxygen, and you have d-meth. This is what you get when you get a typical sample of speed is Australia.

Racemic meth (or dl-methamphetamine) is a 50%-50% mixture of d and l meth.
This is what is produced when meth is made from P2P (phenyl-2-propanone, a ketone with a benzene ring), because rather than taking bits off of a molecule to produce meth, you are building it up. This results in a 50-50 chance that it will form one way or the other, so both types are formed equally.
Racemic meth is recreational, and even though l-meth is considered shit, it (supposedly) synergises with d-meth to make a product that is different (ie better) than what you'd expect, better than the sum of it's parts.

This could account for the difference. Perhaps ice is racemic meth. In large asian meth factories, it is unlikely that the cooks would have to use pseudoephedrine tablets. At that level, and given the corruption in these countries, it is likely that any prospective cook with large sums of money would be able to easily procure the precursor chemicals in large amounts, so P2P could be obtained easily. I'm by no means sure that this is the case, but it might be that ice is racemic meth as opposed to local stuff (speed) being d-meth. If this is the case, it would explain why most users get a different feeling from ice than they do from speed.

Any thoughts? Does anyone know whether ice is d-meth or racemic meth in most cases? It would be interesting to be able to test this theory, but I wouldn't have a clue about how to go about testing for the presence of each isomer. My chemistry knowledge is very limited.

 

[phase_dancer]

Ice is normally d-meth as it's usually synthesised from pseudoephedrine. BTW, l-meth is active, only it's activity is only ~1/4-1/5 that of the d isomer. It may not have quite the euphoria meth users know and love, but it's definitely stimulating.

They both have the same basic structure, but they are mirror images of eachother.

It's also important to note that enantiomers are non-superimposable in the same way the left hand isn't superimposable on the right (one on top of the other)

A simple test for enantiometric purity uses a polarimeter. Polarimeters aren't cheap, but every university chem lab should have one, and if you're good with your hands, they can be made if the materials are available.

Department of Chemistry University of Adelaide

Polarimeter


If you can access the below ref, it demonstrates how a simple polarimeter can be made from an overhead projector.

A Simple Polarimeter and Experiments Utilizing an Overhead Projector.
by Dorn, H. C.; And Others
Source: Journal of Chemical Education, v61 n12 p1106-07 Dec 1984

 

[fasteddie]

Man, people who BUY the shit get pissed on.

Myself, I ...find it under the pillow where the tooth fairy leaves it. It may not be in the form of pretty crystals but it KICKS ASS.