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Misc Should I try out nootropics instead of antidepressants?

glab

Bluelighter
Joined
May 3, 2015
Messages
182
I am slowly beginning to feel like antidepressants aren't going to help me. I already tried quite a lot and nothing seems to work (cymbalta,remeron,lexapro,wellbutrin,stablon,anafranil,memantine) Currently I am on Vortioxetine and it also doesn't seem to do anything.
I don't really understand why none of the drugs worked at least a bit. My mood goes up and down. Sometimes I feel ok sometimes I feel awful
but it has nothing to do with the drugs. If I take something while having a phase where I feel relatively ok I might think it's the drug but it's not.
I can go from 4/10 to 1/10 in a few hours and the drug does nothing to keep me a bit stable.

Now I wonder if I should try experiment a bit on my own and try nootropics. But how likely is it that I find a substance which works
like an antidepressant and which is safe for continual use? Going on something which isn't safe would make no sense.

Another problem with me combinability with prescription drugs like what if I want to take a benzo or a stimulant would this cause problems?
Unfortunately drug interaction websites don't include nootropics.
 
Nootropics are generally safe to use. Its easy to Google it and get information on the various Nootropics available.
I'm willing to bet you that after your search, you will find a suitable racetam . There are a few for anxiety and brain boosting effects. I say go for it. They definitely have a much better side effect profile than typical antidepressants.
 
id try nootropics they help me alot.

edit: idk about completely instead of antidepressants but maybe alongside instead of adhd medication or something. but of course ask your doctor first i have no idea about the interactions it could have.
 
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Yes, they are far more safe and many of them are non-addictive.
Search for Piracetam, Aniracetam and Phenylpiracetam they relieve anxiety and make you focus, don't know about the country in which you live but in many cases a prescription is required, therefore I would suggest to talk with a doctor rather than buying them online.
 
Talk to your doctor about this, and before you stop taking the anti-depressants if you're on any, and about nootropics or whatever drug(s) you are thinking about taking.
 
^I agree

I think you should make sure that you at least notify your doctor what you're planning on taking. An even better route would be to ask them if it's all right for you to take it.

Generally, people shouldn't self-medicate. Even doctors go to doctors simply because it's impossible to be as objective with oneself. This may be setting yourself up for failure.

There are tons of antidepressants out there. It can also take a while to find the right one. My advice is to tell your doctor exactly how you feel, and give a couple more medications a go. Pharmaceuticals approved by your government should be safe at the dosage that they're prescribed.

Unless they're prescribed in reasonable doses, you should steer clear of recreational drugs, at least until you find the right medication.
 
Hello,
my pdoc has no clue about vitamins and nootropics and stuff like that. He doesn't even know that much about psychiatric drugs.
I don't even have to ask him about racetams and stuff like that. If he cannot find anything about them in his smart drug guide which he always refers to
then he also can't tell me anything about it.

Are racetams unsafe when taken with a SSRI?

But even if nootropics are safe then I'd still not know if the seller who sells them offers a good quality. What if the stuff is impure or contains dangerous substances?
 
It's really hard to tell whether or not antidepressants are "doing anything" from the inside. The part of you that assesses what your mental health is like is the bit that's sick. You may feel like the medication isn't helping at all, but if you go off it, you may find yourself suddenly much worse. And that's not even getting into the fact that most of them cause discontinuation syndrome (withdrawal effects) when you stop taking them, which can present as a sudden and severe increase in symptoms.

I'm not telling you to stay on medication that you feel isn't working, but I think you should definitely talk to your regular doctor before you decide to stop taking your medication. They'll be able to give a bit more of an objective view of whether you've improved at all on the medication, and a good doctor should be able to spot patterns in what has and hasn't worked and advise what else might work better.
 
Yes getting off a drug can make you feel worse but this doesn't mean the drug was helping.
I don't simply get off an antidepressant without informing my doc. If I feel like something doesn't work I get off it and then discuss with him what I might try next.
But my doc doesn't really have a plan. He only suggested 1 drug. All the other stuff which I tried was all my idea. I see him every 8 weeks for 10 minutes and then I usually say
that the old drug didn't work and then I suggest something new and he prescribes it. I am pretty much on my own with this. But this is how it is today. I know many others who
also feel like their pdoc is pretty much useless and only good for prescribing things. If I didn't try to figure out stuff on my own or read in books and try to come up with new ideas
for new drugs or combinations then I'd be even more lost.

But it would be really good if I could take things as an add-on. But then there's the problem that I don't know if a certain nootropic could be mixed with an antidepressant or not.
 
Yes getting off a drug can make you feel worse but this doesn't mean the drug was helping.
I don't simply get off an antidepressant without informing my doc. If I feel like something doesn't work I get off it and then discuss with him what I might try next.
But my doc doesn't really have a plan. He only suggested 1 drug. All the other stuff which I tried was all my idea. I see him every 8 weeks for 10 minutes and then I usually say
that the old drug didn't work and then I suggest something new and he prescribes it. I am pretty much on my own with this. But this is how it is today. I know many others who
also feel like their pdoc is pretty much useless and only good for prescribing things. If I didn't try to figure out stuff on my own or read in books and try to come up with new ideas
for new drugs or combinations then I'd be even more lost.

But it would be really good if I could take things as an add-on. But then there's the problem that I don't know if a certain nootropic could be mixed with an antidepressant or not.

8 weeks really isn't long enough to assess whether an anti-depressant is working - they don't generally do anything at all for the first 2-3, and then you have a good six months of jiggling the dose until you find out whether or not it's going to work for you. Psychiatric pharmacotherapy is a long game with a lot of trial and error, unfortunately.

Maybe you should see a different doctor? Is this guy a GP or a psychiatrist?
 
He's a pdoc and the best I could find. I tried a couple of other ones and they sucked even more.
He at least listens to my suggestions. But he doesn't bring much own stuff to the table.

I don't take any antidepressant longer than 2-3 months. If it doesn't do anything in this time it probably never will.
Also staying too long on a drug is also dangerous. I was on 20mg Lexapro for 4 months. Didn't work and when I got off it
I got bad withdrawal with brain zaps and feeling sick.

I also don't have the time to give each drug 6 months. I needed to find something which actually helps me asap. I have been
trying out drugs since 2012 and nothing helped at all. Maybe there's simply no drug which can really help me cause most of my
depression is exogenic.
 
He's a pdoc and the best I could find. I tried a couple of other ones and they sucked even more.
He at least listens to my suggestions. But he doesn't bring much own stuff to the table.

I don't take any antidepressant longer than 2-3 months. If it doesn't do anything in this time it probably never will.
Also staying too long on a drug is also dangerous. I was on 20mg Lexapro for 4 months. Didn't work and when I got off it
I got bad withdrawal with brain zaps and feeling sick.

I also don't have the time to give each drug 6 months. I needed to find something which actually helps me asap. I have been
trying out drugs since 2012 and nothing helped at all. Maybe there's simply no drug which can really help me cause most of my
depression is exogenic.

I know it's not what you want to hear, but you're not going to find a magic drug that works as soon as you start taking it. Some people on some medications need to ramp up to quite a significant dose before they experience symptom relief. It's not correct that an antidepressant will never work if it hasn't done something in two months - for some of them, the starting dose is well below the effective dose.
 
^^ Wise words by SixBuckets.............. I don't have the answer, but IME finding something that inspires you and holding on to it no matter what has helped me far more than any chemical, and it was a lot easier to type that than to actually live my it.

But by posting here, I am reminding myself to hold onto how life-changing inspiration can be and what a fine line it is to forget this and these are the times I start feeling down or flat, so thx for the "re-charge"/reminder to self.

SL
 
Don't buy racetams online, they are often bunk. Try and speak with another doctor and see if he can prescribe you pharmaceutical racetams.
 
@ Al12

We have Piracetam as a drug. I could theoretically get this, but I'm not sure if it would really do much for depression. I think in the leaflet it even says it can cause depression.
I also don't know if Piracetam could be mixed with antidepressants or amphetamines. I read that Racetams + Amphetamines is dangerous cause it's too exciting for the brain.

@ sixbuckets

I don't want to go too high with dosages. For example I took 20mg Lexapro for 4 months and it didn't help. I didn't want to go higher than 20mg cause I read it can cause QT prolongation.
Or when I tried Cymbalta I gradually went up to 120mg and stayed there for 2 weeks and felt nothing at all and then my doc said if it doesn't do anything at 120 then it's useless. I also read in a book that it doesn't take that long to tell if a person responds or not. I'm not a fan of taking something too long and then risking withdrawal symptoms cause this also sucks.

But I also wonder if (since no antidepressant worked for me so far) I should get plasma levels checked simply to see if I metabolize fast. But my doc doesn't seem to do this at all. I asked him
about measuring plasma levels and he sounded like he doesn't do this.
 
Hello,
my pdoc has no clue about vitamins and nootropics and stuff like that. He doesn't even know that much about psychiatric drugs.
I don't even have to ask him about racetams and stuff like that. If he cannot find anything about them in his smart drug guide which he always refers to
then he also can't tell me anything about it.

You're in Germany, correct?

I'd be really surprised if your PDoc didn't know about Racetams, because Piracetam is widely used in much of Europe to treat cognitive deficiencies in the elderly, and is available under several brand names in Germany alone (oh, and it's prescription only, so I doubt your doc will be okay with you just ordering that stuff of the net).
That's generally the thing with Nootropics - these aren't just harmless vitamins, they're prescription drugs used in the treatment of dementia.

If you've tried most antidepressants, you could still try an MAOI. Moclobemide (Aurorix) reversibly inhibits MAO-A, leading to an increase in serotonin without the risks associated with irreversible MAOIs. Selegiline (has to be prescribed off-label) irreversibly inhibits MAO-B (but leaves you the MAO-A unless you take a very high dose), leading to an increase in dopamine. Tranylcypromine (Jatrosom) is basically the nuclear option: One of the few irreversible non-selective MAOIs still on the market in Europe, it is the riskiest option, but usually *very* effective.
 
Yes I'm in Germany. But Piracetam isn't really used here for dementia. I have the psychopharmacology advisor which every pdoc here relies on and the author says that piracetam shouldn't be used anymore.
I think for dementia they use memantine and other drugs now.

Selegiline would be hard to get. Even if my doc prescribed it then my insurance wouldn't pay for it.,

I could try Aurorix but the downside of it is that if I went on it I'd not be able to take any ADHD medication. Now let's say Aurorix helped with depression but then I have to leave the ADHD untreated this would also not be optimal. And my doc definitely won't let me take stimulants with Aurorix. I don't know how dangerous this is but some people even take stimulants with Parnate.

I also don't know how potent Aurorix is. From what I read it doesn't seem to be very effective.

The biggest problem with trying a real MAOI is my anxiety. If I went to Parnate then I'd not know how to behave. I mean I read the instructions once and they were insane. Like: 20 grams of chocolate, 20 grams of nuts, no wine, no bacon, no dried meats, no this no that.

How on earth shall I apply this? If you can only eat certain foods in such ridiculous amounts like 20 grams of nuts then you can basically not eat them at all.
I'd not even know if I could still use whey protein in the morning.
 
@ sixbuckets

I don't want to go too high with dosages. For example I took 20mg Lexapro for 4 months and it didn't help. I didn't want to go higher than 20mg cause I read it can cause QT prolongation.
Or when I tried Cymbalta I gradually went up to 120mg and stayed there for 2 weeks and felt nothing at all and then my doc said if it doesn't do anything at 120 then it's useless.

I'm a bit confused by your phrasing. What do you mean by "felt nothing"? You're not really supposed to "feel anything" from antidepressants - you're just supposed to experience a reduction in or cessation of depressive and anxiety symptoms. Did you have an episode in the two weeks you were on the top Cymbalta dose? Cymbalta is a fast worker, but two weeks is nowhere near long enough to tell if an SNRI is effective for you.

I also read in a book that it doesn't take that long to tell if a person responds or not. I'm not a fan of taking something too long and then risking withdrawal symptoms cause this also sucks.

Unfortunately, the drug working and the withdrawal symptoms are two sides of the same coin. If you come off it really quickly to avoid withdrawal symptoms, you haven't been taking the medication long enough for its function to be incorporated into your homeostasis.

But I also wonder if (since no antidepressant worked for me so far) I should get plasma levels checked simply to see if I metabolize fast. But my doc doesn't seem to do this at all. I asked him
about measuring plasma levels and he sounded like he doesn't do this.

I haven't heard about this, sorry. I can't offer any advice.
 
With "not feel" I mean that I didn't feel any better. I mean when I take an antidepressant then I expect it (in case it works) to make me feel better in general, like less anxious or pessimistic.
But if I'm on an antidepressant and then notice that I feel exactly the same then it's not working imo.

Or maybe they do work but it's so subtle that I cannot tell it and in that case it's also not helpful.

I'm not super depressed every single day but the overall tendency is always there. I mean depending on circumstances I can go from 4/10 to 1/10 in a day and then feel totally miserable again.
And if an antidepressant does not prevent going from 4/10 to 1/10 then it's useless.

Even on days where I feel so-so and just watch TV and do things which I like then I am not "cured" it's simply that all my problems are pushed back a bit and I don't think about them but this can
quickly change and then all my problems are present again and then I feel totally depressed again.

What I would expect from an antidepressant is that it helps with my GAD and also with my general pessimism and tendency towards depression and hopelessness.
But I don't know if this is even realistically possible cause I cannot simply be like other normal people. Normal people probably don't think about death and loss all the time
or think about how senseless everything is. I hate the normal life. The normal life where you have to do things which you don't like has no value to me. I see no point in this.
And those moments in life where you feel "happy" are so rare and short. I also couldn't really be happy or without worries anymore. This is impossible. All I can do is somehow
try to suppress all these negative thoughts. I really wish there was an antidepressant which would just turn me into a different person, somebody who is unnaturally happy and
always optimistic and positive. Being this way would make life so much easier.
 
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