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Opioids Should I enter buprenoprhine treatment?

vlsol

Bluelighter
Joined
Dec 2, 2016
Messages
42
I struggle a lot with sobrierity from opioids. The problem is when Im sober I feel lethargic, depressed. On Opioids I'm well functioning, but I don't like my personality on them (irritated, can't enjoy music like I used to do et cetera). Relapsing to OxyContin ever month and then having to withdraw is consuming a lot of my time and energy, question is, would entering a buprenorphine treatment program change anything? Would it destroy my wish of a total abstinence from opioids or could it help realizing them over time ? (Such as planned, slow tapering)..

I understand they are very hard questions to answer because of how individual this is. But if someone with more experience than me could share theirs I would be happy.

Kind regards
 
If its going to help you, go for it! Try a short term taper like 1-2 weeks in smallest doses. Personally, I've used bupe twice daily (high metabolism, by night I'd feel yucky without splitting doses).

Reason oxy is making you feel yucky is due to tolerance. Your dopamine receptors are damaged due to long tern abuse, so your brain needs a rest.

Word of caution,,,be careful. One of the reasons people OD/die is due to lowered tolerance and trying to use the same amount prior.

Good luck.

Bupe/subs make me so sick.
 
If you're going to go on Suboxone, I would try and make it as short-term as possible.

I recently got off Suboxone after being on it for 2 years. It's been over 3 weeks and I'm still having withdrawal symptoms (although they're starting to go away).

More importantly, when you're on Suboxone, you're basically numb all the time. For me, I was tired all the time, I would sleep too much, I didn't have much motivation to do things, time went by a lot quicker, I didn't really enjoy going out or hanging out with friends (unless I was using heroin), and I had trouble performing sexually. You don't really notice this stuff when you're on Suboxone because you don't feel "high" the way you do when you take opiates. But once you stop taking Suboxone after being on it for a while, you notice a BIG, BIG difference. It's night and day.

Also, when I was on Suboxone, it wasn't any easier for me to stay off heroin. I would say to myself "I've got Suboxone at home, so I don't have to worry about withdrawal. I might as well do some dope."

Overall, I wouldn't recommend Suboxone as a long-term treatment. You mentioned your wish for "total abstinence from opiates," and while Suboxone isn't technically an opiate, it affects the brain in the same way. You'd just replacing one addiction with another.

Using Suboxone temporarily (short-term) as a detox method is a different story. It might be easier to detox using Suboxone than going cold turkey. If you do this, though, keep in mind that you will still have to go through withdrawal when you stop the suboxone. It might not be quite as bad as cold turkey withdrawal from opiates, but it won't be mild either. If you want to get off of opiates completely, you're going to have to go through withdrawal at some point or another. There's no getting around it.

Best of luck.
 
If you're going to go on Suboxone, I would try and make it as short-term as possible.

I recently got off Suboxone after being on it for 2 years. It's been over 3 weeks and I'm still having withdrawal symptoms (although they're starting to go away).

More importantly, when you're on Suboxone, you're basically numb all the time. For me, I was tired all the time, I would sleep too much, I didn't have much motivation to do things, time went by a lot quicker, I didn't really enjoy going out or hanging out with friends (unless I was using heroin), and I had trouble performing sexually. You don't really notice this stuff when you're on Suboxone because you don't feel "high" the way you do when you take opiates. But once you stop taking Suboxone after being on it for a while, you notice a BIG, BIG difference. It's night and day.

Also, when I was on Suboxone, it wasn't any easier for me to stay off heroin. I would say to myself "I've got Suboxone at home, so I don't have to worry about withdrawal. I might as well do some dope."

Overall, I wouldn't recommend Suboxone as a long-term treatment. You mentioned your wish for "total abstinence from opiates," and while Suboxone isn't technically an opiate, it affects the brain in the same way. You'd just replacing one addiction with another.

Using Suboxone temporarily (short-term) as a detox method is a different story. It might be easier to detox using Suboxone than going cold turkey. If you do this, though, keep in mind that you will still have to go through withdrawal when you stop the suboxone. It might not be quite as bad as cold turkey withdrawal from opiates, but it won't be mild either. If you want to get off of opiates completely, you're going to have to go through withdrawal at some point or another. There's no getting around it.

Best of luck.

I'm going through one withdrawal at the moment. It is the 3rd withdrawal in 6 months now. Not counting the withdrawal symtoms I've experienced while tapering down on Oxys to avoid my addiction escalating.

I also feel numb at Suboxone. Which is why I don't want to use it even if it's "free". But it would reduce the social and economical toll I get from buying off the black market, so to speak.

My primary question is perhaps this: Is it likely that, after a conservative and hypervised buprenorphine taper, I would increase my chances of abstinence from other opioids?

And I realize this question is impossible to answer. Since it all depends on me.

Anyone feel like entering buprenorphine treatment was a "game-changer"? Personally, I am afraid my addiction will escalate even further, to levels of hopelesness even. It's also ironic that the first strong opioids I used was buprenorphine and methadone that leaked from the "programs" ;)

I use OxyContin not to "nod out" but average on 60 to 120 mg / day to go on with my personal life. I am more a model citizen on opioids, but more a happy and creative individual without them. A dillemma :(.

Perhaps there is a sucess/failure thread on methadone/bupe treatments that I'm just missing?

Thank you everyone and good luck
 
I agree with pilsbury that suboxone has worse withdrawal than real opiates.

Have you tried/considered kratom? I find it the least painful route to get off opioids, use it for 2-3 weeks then a quick taper or even cold turkey isn't bad.
 
There are really two options here;

(a) the fast, short term taper, which is especially good if your habit is relatively small and short lived;
and (b) the longer-term taper to a smallish (1-4mg) dose, followed by long term (6months-several years+) maintenance

The problem between (a) and (b) is that excessive time on suboxone (well, excessive time on opiates generally, but suboxone while trying to quit, when taken for an extended period of time, tends to make this worse) will worsen the post-acute withdrawal issues of anxiety, depression, etc.

What exactly the dosage reduction protocol will be and so on will be up to you and your doc, but I recommend a fairly simple protocol of the first day taking as much buprenorphine as you need to feel reasonably comfortable, and then decreasing it each day, and decreasing the amount that you are decreasing it by each day as well, e.g. maybe 12 -> 8 -> 6 -> (possibly 5) -> 4 -> (possibly 3) -> 2 -> 1 -> .5 -> .25 > .125; another possibility is tapering down and alternating higher and lower doses, like 8 -> 4 -> 6 -> 2 -> 4 -> 1 -> 2 -> 0.5 ... (these are just examples; you may want to go faster; going significantly slower is going to land you in the territory of option (b) being a better choice for you, there is no real official data but I'd say after 2-4 weeks then you risk more serious post acute withdrawal stuff.) The ultra-small doses (0.125mg etc.) will require not only going to the 2mg pills/strips but a pill cutter (or a razor for the strips) and possibly, especially if not using the strips, something like dissolving it in alcohol and using an eyedropper to give yourself microdoses; or snorting carefully cut up lines. Doctors and obviously the pharmaceutical companies don't usually recommend this but I find 2 or even 1mg far too high a dose to jump to nothing from comfortably (although 2/0/2/0 or the like is better than an abrupt drop, the skipping days works because buprenorphine has a long half life), but it anecdotally is a help. Stopping buprenorphine is not easy. Getting on it is easier than people say. The question is whether your doc will want to taper you quickly, maintain you for a long time, or give you a choice. I chose long term maintenance and it is working very well for me. People are different, though; but for me, suboxone is a miracle drug; you may find so, or not, but certainly given the end of the road that serious opioid use has, it's worth giving a shot. But definitely suboxone withdrawal is worse than heroin or oxy (although not as bad as methadone) and this is something to be considered, but a typical relapse situation would wind up with a bit of time on heroin, etc. and then the withdrawal would be as such (honestly, if you have to drop off 8mg of suboxone, say, due to losing your doctor or whatever, it might be more comfortable to switch to dope, although tapering dope for a variety of reasons is very, very difficult, and I wouldn't reccomend it in the slightest unless you live in countries with more enlightened drug policies which have heroin maintenance, etc.) Does sound like suboxone is a reasonable idea for you though. Sound it out with your doc and see what your options are. And your options will be more than that, now, these days there are doctors all over the place prescribing bupe, unlike some years ago when it first came out, even in the middle of nowhere you will probably be able to find one taking patients within driving distance (although many of them are cash-only operations.)
 
There are really two options here;

(a) the fast, short term taper, which is especially good if your habit is relatively small and short lived;
and (b) the longer-term taper to a smallish (1-4mg) dose, followed by long term (6months-several years+) maintenance

The problem between (a) and (b) is that excessive time on suboxone (well, excessive time on opiates generally, but suboxone while trying to quit, when taken for an extended period of time, tends to make this worse) will worsen the post-acute withdrawal issues of anxiety, depression, etc.

What exactly the dosage reduction protocol will be and so on will be up to you and your doc, but I recommend a fairly simple protocol of the first day taking as much buprenorphine as you need to feel reasonably comfortable, and then decreasing it each day, and decreasing the amount that you are decreasing it by each day as well, e.g. maybe 12 -> 8 -> 6 -> (possibly 5) -> 4 -> (possibly 3) -> 2 -> 1 -> .5 -> .25 > .125; another possibility is tapering down and alternating higher and lower doses, like 8 -> 4 -> 6 -> 2 -> 4 -> 1 -> 2 -> 0.5 ... (these are just examples; you may want to go faster; going significantly slower is going to land you in the territory of option (b) being a better choice for you, there is no real official data but I'd say after 2-4 weeks then you risk more serious post acute withdrawal stuff.) The ultra-small doses (0.125mg etc.) will require not only going to the 2mg pills/strips but a pill cutter (or a razor for the strips) and possibly, especially if not using the strips, something like dissolving it in alcohol and using an eyedropper to give yourself microdoses; or snorting carefully cut up lines. Doctors and obviously the pharmaceutical companies don't usually recommend this but I find 2 or even 1mg far too high a dose to jump to nothing from comfortably (although 2/0/2/0 or the like is better than an abrupt drop, the skipping days works because buprenorphine has a long half life), but it anecdotally is a help. Stopping buprenorphine is not easy. Getting on it is easier than people say. The question is whether your doc will want to taper you quickly, maintain you for a long time, or give you a choice. I chose long term maintenance and it is working very well for me. People are different, though; but for me, suboxone is a miracle drug; you may find so, or not, but certainly given the end of the road that serious opioid use has, it's worth giving a shot. But definitely suboxone withdrawal is worse than heroin or oxy (although not as bad as methadone) and this is something to be considered, but a typical relapse situation would wind up with a bit of time on heroin, etc. and then the withdrawal would be as such (honestly, if you have to drop off 8mg of suboxone, say, due to losing your doctor or whatever, it might be more comfortable to switch to dope, although tapering dope for a variety of reasons is very, very difficult, and I wouldn't reccomend it in the slightest unless you live in countries with more enlightened drug policies which have heroin maintenance, etc.) Does sound like suboxone is a reasonable idea for you though. Sound it out with your doc and see what your options are. And your options will be more than that, now, these days there are doctors all over the place prescribing bupe, unlike some years ago when it first came out, even in the middle of nowhere you will probably be able to find one taking patients within driving distance (although many of them are cash-only operations.)

Thanks for your opinions. Part of why I have second thoughts on entering replacement treatment is the horrorstories of withdrawal I hear about methadone / buprenorphine.
For the moment I'm in the clear. I'm starting to feel better after just 72 hours away from oxycodone which is really lucky imho. But if I find myself contacting dealers and pouring time and money into opioids again I might have to give buprenorphine a shot.

I've ab/used bupe earlier, and I think it's fine. It works well when I go to school or do studies in the library etc except I feel kinda tired. But it might be the smarter choice than becoming economically ruined and having to take a week long break every now and then just to withdraw!

Your taper schemes seem innovative. I've only ever lowered my dose in a linear fashion. But tapering oxy was hard and I only really started tapering when I noticed I'm almost out and the thought of withdrawal started to spook me out!

I think once I can prove stable to a doctor, that I don't abuse side of the bupe they give me, they will want to help me taper. But something about psychiatrics and addiction treatment also seems so predatory to me. I'm afraid the doctors wont give a sh*t about me and only see the financial gain in another addict ...

Thanks everyone and take care of yourselves! I will be back here if I relapse another time!
 
My sub doc keeps telling me that even though I've tapered from 2mg to .5mg/ day of xanax, "having one beer could kill you, even if you drank a six pack the day before, and i don't want my name on the medical records when it happens." He's a gem. He gets $250 an appointment, 250 reasons every month, to keep me on subs. I've gotten down from 24mg of sub to 8mg and eventually to 1.25mg/day. He's suggested I increase my dose at every appointment, because "suboxone is the safest thing you take." I've taken my time, it's been almost two years, and I've spent the amount of money for a moderate down payment on a house to be clean and in mild sub withdrawal.
My advice: if you can do it without subs, count your blessings.
If you can't, there's nothing wrong with needing help, but get to a low dose quickly, taper, and jump off when you are ready.
I've heard too many people on sub say they'd rather withdrawal from dope. I'd also love to spare anyone else from realizing they spent over $7000 in two years.
Good luck. Hopefully you won't need it.
 
It is and was a game changer for me. I no longer want or desire opiates at all. I don't hurt anymore, I function normally, and I finally feel alive after years of a seriously hidden addiction. It depends on you. I wanted to be finished with that life and knew I couldn't do it on my own or would have long ago. I did one month at 16mg per day, second month 8mg a day and this month, my third I'm down to 4mg and feel great. I'm not sure how long I'll stay on this program, but it has saved my life and my family. Best of luck to you.
Btw I'm on Subutex tablets and like them
More than the strips in concern of tapering, dosing and side effects.
 
yes but taper straight away you don't want a subutex addiction it's not worth it as don't get you wrecked so not worth an addiction bur if it stops you from a life of crime and needles and shit then yeat do the treatment I'd rather do methadone and taper using full agonist subutex just stops the shits and sickness and reduces other symptoms where. as.methadone or even morphine get rid completely
 
Just want to share that I personally feel that taking more than 8mg of Suboxone a day is completely unnecessary and the only reason people get prescribed more is because the Doctors want to make more money.

If taking more than that works for you, who am I to say really, but I never saw a point to it IMO.

2mg was actually enough to make me not feel too bad and get rid of the sick feeling.

Suboxone withdrawal is worse than heroin withdrawal ironically enough. Suboxone will stay in your system much longer and therefore take much longer to withdraw from.

It is still an opiate, it just doesn't get you high if you have a tolerance. When used properly, it is a valuable tool. And the only real proper way to use it, again this is in my opinion, is for short term tapers.

staying on Subs for longer than about 2-3 months is trading one addiction for another to be honest. If Subs were prescribed in 1 week supplies to help people taper down on a daily basis instead of monthly, I think they would help more people get clean

instead of going from 16mg to 8mg to 4mg to 2mg in monthly increments, it should be more like daily changes

1 week taper

8mg
8mg
6mg
4mg
2mg
2mg
1mg

and just get out while you can. There will be some form of uncomfortable withdrawals to any opiate habit at some point, Suboxone just helps minimize the discomfort if used in short tapers. Long term usage actually just pushes the WDs back, and with interest.

besides, you don't want to just switch giving all your money from the dope man to the "doctors" who head these rackets. Some actually care about patients, but they all make a lot of money off you staying on their drugs
 
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