Hello everyone!
[I think that thread title is best - I have only used Suboxone in the past seven days, aside from codeine on Thursday]
Long time reader, but only a new poster. I am a 38-year-old Canadian male hypochondriac. I am 5'8.5" [174cm] and 190-lb, and I have a mini-bodybuilder's physique [I am a competitive strongman in Ontario, Canada]. I am a bit out of shape now, although that is due to gyms being closed because of COVID [no excuses, but...excuses, lol]. I finally have had a lot more energy lately, and I would like to start going back to the gym today, in fact.
I have been using opiates since 2007, and used them roughly once per 49 days between 2007 and 2016. Things in my life took a negative turn at a time in my life when I had an abundance of money and access, and I gradually increased my usage until I was full blown addict of oxycodone and hydromorphone from between around March of 2017 through to March of 2019. Since March of 2019, I have been reducing and using, quitting for a few days or a week or more, then using again. The longest successful period I have went using nothing was in January, when I went nine days on absolutely nothing.
I have probably gone five full days on absolutely nothing at least 10 times since March of 2019. The PAWS just gets to me, and I end up using again. Also, please note that when I say I used nothing, I mean nothing. I don't mean that I was using 10mg of methadone daily during those nine days - I mean nothing whatsoever in the opiate family, and generally, no other drug [possibly a nibble of Xanax, but I would have to check my logs].
Here is my recent opioid use [I have only used actual opiates, hydromorphone, once so far in August]:
Sunday, August 9th, 2020:
13mg methadone dosed @1am, 7:30pm, 8:40pm, and around 11pm [I forgot to write down the last time]. My tolerance is virginal now, so this was strong for me. I would say this was even a bit much for me...I find I get a bit of hypertension from methadone. Just some chest pressure, which I wouldn't get using, say, oxycodone. I enjoy methadone, and it works well to eliminate withdrawal cravings...but I do get a bit of a dirty feeling in my body, as described by that chest pressure. Not a dirty high, but just the feeling I would get if I ate mounds of junk food and just feel yucky, as if I'm clogging my arteries taking it.
Monday, August 10th, 2020: NOTHING.
Tuesday, August 11th, 2020: NOTHING.
Wednesday, August 12th, 2020: NOTHING.
Thursday, August 13th, 2020:
960mg Codeine [I used cold water filtration, and I am confident I did a good job...I assume I lost 20% of the codeine by doing this - please correct me if I'm wrong]. This 960mg [or ~768mg, if I lost 20%] was dosed over 12 separate dosing times, between 11:30am and 6:10pm.
Friday, August 14th, 2020:
~1.7mg Suboxone [start amount/time = 1mg sublingual @10pm, all subsequent uses of Suboxone thus far have been intranasal]
Saturday, August 15th, 2020:
~1mg Suboxone [nasal, taken over eight dosing times between 12:30am and 9:20pm].
NOTE: the amount I used in the ~24 hour period as described above was STRONG! I thought 2mg was the lowest dose of this drug, and as a recovering opiate addict, I figured using the SMALLEST dose would be fine...granted, I did use it nasally which was dumb of me, but I assumed the lowest dose would be well within the comfort zone...but it was strong.
Sunday, August 16th, 2020:
~0.8mg Suboxone [intranasal, taken over five dosing times between 7am and 10:10pm].
Monday, August 17th, 2020 [TODAY!]:
0.1mg thus far, taken @12am, 1am, 1:40am, 2:40am.
As some final notes, I will say that this Suboxone is EXACTLY how I remember opiates feeling when I was moderating them between 2007 and 2016. Not that I didn't enjoy my addiction period, but ever since March of 2019, it has been a depressing experience. I was on Prozac from December until June, but realized that my issue is opiate dependence, and NOT chemical depression [at least not the kind that Prozac would cure]. While I was overwhelmed from the Suboxone originally [!], and grateful that my friend stopped by with his girlfriend [yep - it was that strong, and I'm curious if anyone who has experience with nasal Suboxone can explain that], it calmed down to some amazing, blissful euphoria, which has been holding ever since. I have been weaning for so long, that my relationship with opiates has been depressing lately - but I've never been closer to quitting, and I would even say my tolerance is LOWER than it was prior to having ever taken opiates [does anyone know why that might be?]. I should point out that I had some degree of constipation yesterday - that is something I haven't really had much of this year, as I have been so low on opiates. So I assume that the Suboxone caused that.
tl;dr
MY QUESTION IS:
---Since it has now been over seven days since I last took methadone, with the only other substance I did being the codeine four days ago, and 53 hours of Suboxone use, would I be safe to jump off, and take Xanax for five days in a row?---
I have used Xanax before, but I have no tolerance.
The fact that the Suboxone did not push me into precipitated withdrawal [PWD] from my methadone use is a good sign to me, and my doctor was happy to hear it too [if not surprised to hear it, as most of his patients are more addicted, I think]. I would assume if I was addicted to methadone in any significant way, I would have felt some PWD. Correct me if I'm wrong. Prior to using methadone over a week ago, I had used it three times in the week previous to that [under 3mg each time, with one dose being so low, I could not even measure it accurately...making it maybe just over 1mg].
I am thinking of using Xanax five days in a row, 0.5mg at a time, to just sleep for five days. Take 0.5mg Xanax, sleep for six hours, re-dose with as little as possible to just keep sleeping, possibly waking up for walks or something like that. I absolutely DO NOT want to come down with a Xanax addiction, but I heard that five days is not long enough to become addicted to Xanax. I also heard - and this bit seems suspicious to me - that you can use Ativan to get off Xanax, as they work on slightly different receptors...if that is true, and I do suffer any degree of Xanax withdrawal after five days, I can switch to Ativan for a few days. Although that seems too good to be true, so if anyone happens to know, I would be interested in learning.
This was the first time in my life using Suboxone, and I greatly enjoyed it. That being said, if the methadone has been booted off my receptors, and the Suboxone hasn't taken a grip yet, I would like to jump off now, if possible.
I still have 4.4mg left of an 8mg Suboxone tablet, which was brand new and sealed when I got it, and sort of hexagonal shaped.
My doctor wants me to go on something called Natrexone, and I have asked him to prescribe me a placebo [preferably a red pill]. Placebos actually have a scientific basis for work. I am also considering hypnosis therapy.
If anyone has any advice as to how to shake off this last tiny bit of lingering addiction, I would be grateful.
I am thinking - five days of Xanax starting tomorrow, start working out tomorrow, and just accept that PAWS may be a part of my life for as long as I've been abusing opiates [four years, with two of them being heavy use, and the other two being not so bad - the past 17 months has been minimal use].
Also, if anyone has any advice on PAWS for a hypochondriac, I would be grateful.
Sorry for the long post! I love the board, and it's been of major assistance in helping me get clean.
[I think that thread title is best - I have only used Suboxone in the past seven days, aside from codeine on Thursday]
Long time reader, but only a new poster. I am a 38-year-old Canadian male hypochondriac. I am 5'8.5" [174cm] and 190-lb, and I have a mini-bodybuilder's physique [I am a competitive strongman in Ontario, Canada]. I am a bit out of shape now, although that is due to gyms being closed because of COVID [no excuses, but...excuses, lol]. I finally have had a lot more energy lately, and I would like to start going back to the gym today, in fact.
I have been using opiates since 2007, and used them roughly once per 49 days between 2007 and 2016. Things in my life took a negative turn at a time in my life when I had an abundance of money and access, and I gradually increased my usage until I was full blown addict of oxycodone and hydromorphone from between around March of 2017 through to March of 2019. Since March of 2019, I have been reducing and using, quitting for a few days or a week or more, then using again. The longest successful period I have went using nothing was in January, when I went nine days on absolutely nothing.
I have probably gone five full days on absolutely nothing at least 10 times since March of 2019. The PAWS just gets to me, and I end up using again. Also, please note that when I say I used nothing, I mean nothing. I don't mean that I was using 10mg of methadone daily during those nine days - I mean nothing whatsoever in the opiate family, and generally, no other drug [possibly a nibble of Xanax, but I would have to check my logs].
Here is my recent opioid use [I have only used actual opiates, hydromorphone, once so far in August]:
Sunday, August 9th, 2020:
13mg methadone dosed @1am, 7:30pm, 8:40pm, and around 11pm [I forgot to write down the last time]. My tolerance is virginal now, so this was strong for me. I would say this was even a bit much for me...I find I get a bit of hypertension from methadone. Just some chest pressure, which I wouldn't get using, say, oxycodone. I enjoy methadone, and it works well to eliminate withdrawal cravings...but I do get a bit of a dirty feeling in my body, as described by that chest pressure. Not a dirty high, but just the feeling I would get if I ate mounds of junk food and just feel yucky, as if I'm clogging my arteries taking it.
Monday, August 10th, 2020: NOTHING.
Tuesday, August 11th, 2020: NOTHING.
Wednesday, August 12th, 2020: NOTHING.
Thursday, August 13th, 2020:
960mg Codeine [I used cold water filtration, and I am confident I did a good job...I assume I lost 20% of the codeine by doing this - please correct me if I'm wrong]. This 960mg [or ~768mg, if I lost 20%] was dosed over 12 separate dosing times, between 11:30am and 6:10pm.
Friday, August 14th, 2020:
~1.7mg Suboxone [start amount/time = 1mg sublingual @10pm, all subsequent uses of Suboxone thus far have been intranasal]
Saturday, August 15th, 2020:
~1mg Suboxone [nasal, taken over eight dosing times between 12:30am and 9:20pm].
NOTE: the amount I used in the ~24 hour period as described above was STRONG! I thought 2mg was the lowest dose of this drug, and as a recovering opiate addict, I figured using the SMALLEST dose would be fine...granted, I did use it nasally which was dumb of me, but I assumed the lowest dose would be well within the comfort zone...but it was strong.
Sunday, August 16th, 2020:
~0.8mg Suboxone [intranasal, taken over five dosing times between 7am and 10:10pm].
Monday, August 17th, 2020 [TODAY!]:
0.1mg thus far, taken @12am, 1am, 1:40am, 2:40am.
As some final notes, I will say that this Suboxone is EXACTLY how I remember opiates feeling when I was moderating them between 2007 and 2016. Not that I didn't enjoy my addiction period, but ever since March of 2019, it has been a depressing experience. I was on Prozac from December until June, but realized that my issue is opiate dependence, and NOT chemical depression [at least not the kind that Prozac would cure]. While I was overwhelmed from the Suboxone originally [!], and grateful that my friend stopped by with his girlfriend [yep - it was that strong, and I'm curious if anyone who has experience with nasal Suboxone can explain that], it calmed down to some amazing, blissful euphoria, which has been holding ever since. I have been weaning for so long, that my relationship with opiates has been depressing lately - but I've never been closer to quitting, and I would even say my tolerance is LOWER than it was prior to having ever taken opiates [does anyone know why that might be?]. I should point out that I had some degree of constipation yesterday - that is something I haven't really had much of this year, as I have been so low on opiates. So I assume that the Suboxone caused that.
tl;dr
MY QUESTION IS:
---Since it has now been over seven days since I last took methadone, with the only other substance I did being the codeine four days ago, and 53 hours of Suboxone use, would I be safe to jump off, and take Xanax for five days in a row?---
I have used Xanax before, but I have no tolerance.
The fact that the Suboxone did not push me into precipitated withdrawal [PWD] from my methadone use is a good sign to me, and my doctor was happy to hear it too [if not surprised to hear it, as most of his patients are more addicted, I think]. I would assume if I was addicted to methadone in any significant way, I would have felt some PWD. Correct me if I'm wrong. Prior to using methadone over a week ago, I had used it three times in the week previous to that [under 3mg each time, with one dose being so low, I could not even measure it accurately...making it maybe just over 1mg].
I am thinking of using Xanax five days in a row, 0.5mg at a time, to just sleep for five days. Take 0.5mg Xanax, sleep for six hours, re-dose with as little as possible to just keep sleeping, possibly waking up for walks or something like that. I absolutely DO NOT want to come down with a Xanax addiction, but I heard that five days is not long enough to become addicted to Xanax. I also heard - and this bit seems suspicious to me - that you can use Ativan to get off Xanax, as they work on slightly different receptors...if that is true, and I do suffer any degree of Xanax withdrawal after five days, I can switch to Ativan for a few days. Although that seems too good to be true, so if anyone happens to know, I would be interested in learning.
This was the first time in my life using Suboxone, and I greatly enjoyed it. That being said, if the methadone has been booted off my receptors, and the Suboxone hasn't taken a grip yet, I would like to jump off now, if possible.
I still have 4.4mg left of an 8mg Suboxone tablet, which was brand new and sealed when I got it, and sort of hexagonal shaped.
My doctor wants me to go on something called Natrexone, and I have asked him to prescribe me a placebo [preferably a red pill]. Placebos actually have a scientific basis for work. I am also considering hypnosis therapy.
If anyone has any advice as to how to shake off this last tiny bit of lingering addiction, I would be grateful.
I am thinking - five days of Xanax starting tomorrow, start working out tomorrow, and just accept that PAWS may be a part of my life for as long as I've been abusing opiates [four years, with two of them being heavy use, and the other two being not so bad - the past 17 months has been minimal use].
Also, if anyone has any advice on PAWS for a hypochondriac, I would be grateful.
Sorry for the long post! I love the board, and it's been of major assistance in helping me get clean.
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