Self experiments with new series of NXXX-phenylethylamines

jason7

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and how do you know that "at least 30mg" are required?
Note the word "probably". If 9 has a barely noticeable effect then it seems reasonable to assume that 20 would have a light effect at best and that 30 would be in a range where significant effects would be a realistic possibility. I'm guessing that 30mg would actually be a threshold dose, if it even has effects, and that 60-75 would be more likely to have noticeable effects. Just my intuition. I think you actually need a methoxy group on the 2 carbon for psych effects though. See this entry in PIHKAL. That's 4,5-DIMETHOXY-2-ETHOXYAMPHETAMINE. 50mg was the highest dose tried.

QUALITATIVE COMMENTS: (with 50 mg) There were no effects.
Apparently an ethoxy on the 5 carbon of a mescaline analogue is still effective, METAESCALINE; 3,4-DIMETHOXY-5-ETHOXYPHENETHYLAMINE

It's about the same potency as mescaline but, interestingly, produces no nausea or other negative physical effects. It does taste very bad though, apparently. Aside from the taste, it might be a good compound, though the low potency would make it impractical for commercial production. However, the question is; would an ethoxy on the 5 carbon of, say, DOM produce a compound with similar effects and potency but less bodyload? I think that's where Hans should concentrate his research, on the 5 ethoxy compounds. The 2 ethoxies are almost certainly going to have little if any activity.
 
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jason7

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Hey Hans, try making an NBOMe of a psychedelic phenylisopropylamine, like DOC. I think it would be interesting to see how the effects would be modified. It probably won't increase the potency but it may modulate the effects, making it more selective for 5-HT2a.
 

:DNA

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I'm not sure how much Hans appreciates you bossing him around, telling him what to do. He's not beholden to you in any way, especially since, at the end of the day it's his body and health he's risking, not yours. Please try to be a little more respectful of that fact :)

keep up the awesome work, Hans!
 

jason7

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I'm not sure how much Hans appreciates you bossing him around, telling him what to do. He's not beholden to you in any way, especially since, at the end of the day it's his body and health he's risking, not yours. Please try to be a little more respectful of that fact :)

keep up the awesome work, Hans!
No, Hans likes it when I boss him around. Who are you, btw, somebody who applied for a job as Hans' personal assistant? Is your name Igor? In order for Hans to be taken seriously as a psych chemist he will be required to produce DOC NBOMe, and then test it on himself. The question is; is Hans equal to the task?
 

Torresmo

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No, Hans likes it when I boss him around. Who are you, btw, somebody who applied for a job as Hans' personal assistant? Is your name Igor? In order for Hans to be taken seriously as a psych chemist he will be required to produce DOC NBOMe, and then test it on himself. The question is; is Hans equal to the task?
let me guess.. you're looking for something that doesn't give you nausea?
hey hans what about making some 25-Kudzu-NBOMe?

(just kidding, hans, I am loving to read this thread)
 
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Solipsis

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^^^ OK fun is over, cut it out. Unless I am mistaken I think I already suggested making DOX derivatives and it was briefly discussed. How about actually reading the thread and keeping your impatience and unprofessionalism to yourself. Thank you.
 

jason7

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^^^ OK fun is over, cut it out. Unless I am mistaken I think I already suggested making DOX derivatives and it was briefly discussed. How about actually reading the thread and keeping your impatience and unprofessionalism to yourself. Thank you.
Perhaps it was briefly discussed but since when is discussing the same subject unacceptable? And when did I claim to be a professional? Is this a scientific foundation site? I thought it was for general drug discussion by anybody? I don't even know why you felt a need to pop in here.
 

Hans Meyer

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DOC-NBOMe

Hey Hans, try making an NBOMe of a psychedelic phenylisopropylamine, like DOC. I think it would be interesting to see how the effects would be modified. It probably won't increase the potency but it may modulate the effects, making it more selective for 5-HT2a.
There are a lot of other interesting substances to be made, but I am restricted by the chemicals I have, since I am not able to bye new ones. Concerning DOC-NBOMe: Presumably You know, that the amph-like-NBOMe are nearly without psychodelic power, as found by BRADEN et al. ? Nevertheless they may change to more positive quality (by reduced power), and I will, of course, test some of these classes in future. As well as substances of the group PEA-NDEPA (which are presumably of less power).
But never I will take large doses because of my age (please read my introduction of this thread).
So long Hans
 
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Hans Meyer

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***************
3-ThPA date 140909
***************
IUPAC-Name: 1-(3-Thienyl)propan-2-amine;



Trial 1:
Salt: Hydrogentartrate
Dose of free base [nMol/kg]; (M=141.2 g/Mol): 404
Dose [mg] of free base related to a 75 kg body: 4.28 mg
Route of Administration: s.l., then o.e.s. (oral, empty stomach)
Duration: na
Notes: 11:00h: 10 mg Hydrogentartrate first s.l.15´ then o.e.s. Nearly no reaction exept some more tinnitus. 11:30 to 12:30h had a little nap. Little bit anorexic. 13:40h: weak queasy feeling in stomach (no nausea!). 14:00h: 2 toasts with fish, 1 toast with cheese.

Trial 2:
Salt: Hydrogentartrate
Dose of free base [nMol/kg]; (M= 141.2 g/Mol): 1374
Dose [mg] of free base related to a 75 kg body: 14.55 mg
Route of Administration: s.l., then o.e.s.
Duration: ~12 h
Notes: 11:30h: 34 mg Hydrogentartrate s.l. (difficult) ~10´ then o.e.s. 12:00h: Little bit anorexic. 15:00h nearly nothing. Next day 1:00h: still lively, CNS-stimulation? ~2:00h Read something ( a late work of Thomas Mann) and slept.

Trial 3:
Salt: Hydrogentartrate
Dose of free base [nMol/kg]; (M= 141.2 g/Mol): 2020
Dose [mg] of free base related to a 75 kg body: 21.39 mg
Route of Administration: s.l., then o.e.s.
Duration: ~ 16 h
Notes: 8:40h: 50 mg Hydrogentartrate first s.l. + buccal ~25´ then o.e.s. 9:00h: Something happens, slight excited state. Exited breathing, hear my breathing stronger. Like slight amphetamine effects. 9:30h: Surprisingly both: attenuation and mental excitement. 10:45h: Quiet concentration, pleasant, slight anorexic. 11:30h: slowly comes down. 12:00h: Comes again in waves, quiet excited stats. 14:30h: still working, sometimes weak lack of concentration, but sharp senses and images. 15:00h: Lively! No usual afternoon nap! Anorexic, no breakfast, 15:15h: a peach. 16:00h: Substance still working. 17:15h: not more than weak activity. 20:30h: Still after-effects: totaly lively, no tiredness or exhaustion. 20:45h: more alert and more attentive are now somewhat uncomfortable. 23:30h: To bed but still wide awake! 6:30h next day already arised, inadequate poor-quality sleep. 23:00h early to bed, slept 11 houres as compensation.

Comment:
Resumeé: CNS-stimulation too long, for that I will not try again., otherwise very ok.
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jason7

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There are a lot of other interesting substances to be made, but I am restricted by the chemicals I have, since I am not able to bye new ones. Concerning DOC-NBOMe: Presumably You know, that the amph-like-NBOMe are nearly without psychodelic power, as found by BRADEN et al. ? Nevertheless they may change to more positive quality (by reduced power), and I will, of course, test some of these classes in future. As well as substances of the group PEA-NDEPA (which are presumably of less power).
But never I will take large doses because of my age (please read my introduction of this thread).

So long Hans
Thank you, Hans. I know you didn't think I was trying to "boss you around", as that guy said. I was simply making a suggestion. But, as you said, adding the NBOMe to DOI did reduce the potency. From Braden's article it looked like it was about 1/15th the potency of 25i, so you would need a dose of about 7.5 mg. Since you have very limited materials to use I guess it's pointless to make suggestions for new compounds. I'll leave you to make whatever you can and want to at the time then. I also won't suggest increasing your dosages anymore either.
 

Hans Meyer

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***********************************************************
1-Amino-1-(3,4-methylendioxyphenyl)propane or ALPHA (SHULGIN) date 141111
***********************************************************

IUPAC-Name:
1-(1,3-benzodioxol-5-yl)propan-1-amine


SHULGIN wrote (PIHKAL, Transform Press Berkeley, CA, ISBN 0-9630096-0-5, p. 718):
At low threshold levels (10 mg area) there were eyes-closed „dreams“ with some body tingling. The compound was not anorexic at any dose (up to 140 mg) and was reported to produce a pleasant, positive feeling. It is very short lived (about three houres). The N-methyl-homologue...is similar in action, but is perhaps twice as potent (a plus one or plus two dose is 60 mg) and of twice the duration.


Trial 1:
Salt: Hydrogen-tartrate
Dose of free base related to a 75 kg body: 19.4 mg
Route of Administration: o.e.s. (oral, empty stomach)
Duration: ≤ 5 h
Notes: after ½ h something happened; everything seems to be more substancial, more density...good communication, I hear better, hear my own breath. But it seems to me, that depth of feeling is diminished.


Trial 2:
Salt: Hydrogen-tartrate
Dose of free base related to a 75 kg body: 29 mg
Route of Administration: o.e.s. (oral, empty stomach)
Duration: ≤ 6 h
Notes: efficiency less than that of trial 1

Trial 3:
Salt: Hydrogen-tartrate
Dose of free base related to a 75 kg body: 42 mg
Route of Administration: o.e.s. (oral, empty stomach)
Duration: ≤ 5 h
Notes: only little effect


Trial 4:
Salt: Hydrogen-tartrate
Dose of free base related to a 75 kg body: 64 mg
Route of Administration: o.e.s. (oral, empty stomach)
Duration: na h
Notes: only little effect



Trial 5:
Salt: Mesilate (CH3-SO2-O⊖)
Dose of free base related to a 75 kg body: 10.4 mg
Route of Administration: s.l. (sub lingua)
Duration: ≤ 5 h
Notes: little effects, some houres little bit cheeriness/tidiness


Trial 6:
Salt: Mesilate (CH3-SO2-O⊖)
Dose of free base related to a 75 kg body: 23 mg
Route of Administration: s.l. (sub lingua)
Duration: 6 h
Notes: feeling „enlarged“, „rised“. Looked pictures of „beinart“ (http://beinart.org/), and suddenly I could no longer concentrat me to that terrible kind of art, no interest at all, something others is going on. (SHULGIN´s scale: until around +1)


Trial 7:
Salt: Mesilate (CH3-SO2-O⊖)
Dose of free base related to a 75 kg body: 12 mg
Route of Administration: s.l. (sub lingua)
Duration: 4 h
Notes: bad concentration, tinnitus, „doughy“ intens impressions; unpleasant


Comments:
s.l. >20mg is hardly to take for me because of increased salivation.
Between the tests there were meantime of some weeks to some years.
o.e.s.: unsure response, s.l. better. May be also better by injection.

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Peacephrog1972

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am glad someone is doing this to a halfway scientific level.....

myself i just can't figure on weighing these propeties out to the amount they should be taken in.....that and too many horror stories....

i hear beautiful things too, just too many horror flicks....

N BOMB is what they are known to in my circle....just FYI
 

Hans Meyer

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.....that and too many horror stories....i hear beautiful things too, just too many horror flicks....

N BOMB is what they are known to in my circle....just FYI
For me, set and setting are the most influencing properties, and are mostly be ignored during trips.
 

racoonbob

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First of all, hello everyone. Hope this thread is still alive, very interesting experiments.
I wouldn't even bother trying dimethoxy ones. The dimethoxy PEAs had no effect whatsoever, as reported in whatever scientific journals I read about them in.
There have been active dimethoxy psychedelics (3,4 dimethoxy peas IIRC) synthed and bioassayed by a guy called demonic, similar work to what is going on here, quite cryptic though.

Secondly, Hans Meyer you likely won't have the reagents but I would be interested in seeing a trifluoromethanesulfonyl group at position 4, have not seen any such experiment yet.
 

Hans Meyer

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but I would be interested in seeing a trifluoromethanesulfonyl group at position 4, have not seen any such experiment yet.
Yes, the F3C-SO2-group would be very interesting, for it is the most electronegative known. But hardly realisable. I can not make this. But what about the more easy F3C-S-group at 4-position? I didn´t find in the literature.
 

racoonbob

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Yes, the F3C-SO2-group would be very interesting, for it is the most electronegative known. But hardly realisable. I can not make this. But what about the more easy F3C-S-group at 4-position? I didn´t find in the literature.
Well I would be equally interested, however I have not encountered this group before. If catalytic exchange for 4-bromo is possible It may be quite a breakthrough. I would not personally advise such syntheses as fluorine chemistry is a mystery to me and end compound can easily be extremely potent or long lived.
Also have you considered a substituted thiophene, at 2 position maybe? (with propylamine at 3)
Am I wrong to say that the N-benzyls are preferably electron donating?

I hope you are doing well and there are more experiments to come.
 

Solipsis

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^ This seems pretty much like synth discussion, please read the rules - thanks very much.
 
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