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  • AADD Moderators: swilow | Vagabond696

Searches while on Good Behaviour

Splatt

Ex-Bluelighter
Joined
Sep 25, 2001
Messages
9,112
Is it legal for police to search you (pat you down, lift your shirt up and check your pockets) every time they see you in public because they know you're on a good behaviour bond, and they have found drugs on you in the past.

Sorry if I should of posted this in an older thread, feel free to merge.
 
Actually nothing to merge this one with.

You always have the right when being searched to ask for the name and rank of the officers involved. Only with those details can you file a really useful complaint.

If you feel you're being victimised by certain officers because they've busted you in the past, this sort of intimidation might not stop until you make a complaint.

The following is advice for NSW but pretty much applicable everywhere.

YOUR RIGHTS

The following is a list of the situations where you could most expect to come into contact with the police for the purposes of questioning or the police conducting a search.

The list is set out in the form of questions, containing the conditions which are required to be satisfied for police officers to conduct certain searches. Where the questions posed in the checklist can be answered "yes", then it is likely that the police do have the power to conduct the particular search as described.

1. Does a Police Officer reasonably suspect you of having or conveying anything that is stolen or has otherwise been obtained unlawfully or anything which has been used or is intended to be used in the commission of a criminal offence?

2. In the case of a motor vehicle, does a Police Officer reasonably suspect that there is anything in the vehicle which is stolen or otherwise unlawfully obtained, or anything that has been used or is intended to be used in the commission of an indictable offence?

3. Does a Police Officer reasonably suspect a person of having any prohibited plant or prohibited drug?

4. Does a Police Officer reasonably suspect a motor vehicle to contain a prohibited plant or prohibited drug?

5. Does a Police Officer suspect on reasonable grounds that a person has a dangerous implement in his or her custody?

6. Does the Police Officer limit the search in this case to the following?:

* Scanning by a metal detection device.
* Running hands quickly over the person's outer garments.
* An examination of any bag or other personal effects.
* The search of a school student's locker.

7. Does the Police Officer limit a request to a person to remove any item of clothing being worn such as hat, gloves, or jacket?

8. Does a Police Officer, in the case of the search of a student at a school, allow the student to nominate an adult who is on the school premises to be present during the search?

9. In the case of certain motor vehicles, does a senior officer suspect on reasonable grounds that:

* A vehicle of the same class as the vehicle is being or may have been used in the commission of an indictable offence? or
* There are circumstances in or within the vicinity of that road, area or place that are likely to give rise to a serious risk to public safety.

...

WHAT TO DO IF THERE HAS BEEN A VIOLATION OF YOUR RIGHTS

If you have been mistreated or have a complaint to make against the police service.

If, as a result of contact with the police, either before or after arrest, you feel as if the police have acted outside their powers, or your rights have been breached, then you take the following action:

Make a complaint against the police involved to the local area command to which the police are attached. The police will conduct an internal investigation to determine how much substance there is in the complaint and if it cannot be resolved satisfactorily, it may be referred to the New South Wales Ombudsman.

Make a complaint directly to the New South Wales Ombudsman. The Ombudsman has the power to investigate complaints against police. The Ombudsman, after acknowledging receipt of a complaint, will keep you informed as to any investigatory process which occurs.

This action can be taken against police officers if they have acted outside their powers.

If the police are involved in an illegality or impropriety in the course of obtaining evidence, which is subsequently used against you in a court case, the court, in the exercise of its discretion, can exclude that evidence from being used against you. The extent to which the discretion is exercised generally relates to the severity of the illegality or impropriety on the part of the police.

Police Searches, advice by Ryan & Bosscher Lawyers - Sydney.
 
Unfortuntely I live in a town where police don't like to give you rights. ie. they won't let you make a phone call when locked up. They won't take bribes but they just get off on the power. He wouldn't give me his ID. When I asked him and said I'd counted my money he laughed and said I'm full of shit. This is QLD for you. I like NSW cops. But QLD cops are trained to be total fuckheads.
 
Guess its time you changed your appearance Splatt

groucho.gif


;)
 
get a friend to walk around with you, but about 10 meters behind you. He can take pictures/video of you being harrased, and then submit that to the obudsman... maybe it will help?
 
If you are on a good behaviour bond for , I dont know, dealing drugs. That would surely count for the police having reasonable suspicion that you may be carrying drugs.
I am not saying that this is fair or correct but it could no doubt be interpreted that way.
 
It's not drug related but they found very small quantities of drugs on me before.
 
Splatt said:
Unfortuntely I live in a town where police don't like to give you rights. ie. they won't let you make a phone call when locked up. They won't take bribes but they just get off on the power. He wouldn't give me his ID. When I asked him and said I'd counted my money he laughed and said I'm full of shit.
no phone call? not giving you his ID? thats crap.

Splatt said:
I like NSW cops. But QLD cops are trained to be total fuckheads.
oh i wouldn't speak so soon on that ones. There are some real pratts here in NSW too. some are good here though.

i think they are all trained to be f#ckheads so to speak. i hate they whole interview thing where they say you have a right to silence, but then tell you that if you don't say anything it will make you look guilty and they'll be able to prosecute easily. and the shit they put into your mouth. (from friends experiences in NSW having listened to interview tapes)
 
party with care said:
no phone call? not giving you his ID? thats crap.

oh i wouldn't speak so soon on that ones. There are some real pratts here in NSW too. some are good here though.

i think they are all trained to be f#ckheads so to speak. i hate they whole interview thing where they say you have a right to silence, but then tell you that if you don't say anything it will make you look guilty and they'll be able to prosecute easily. and the shit they put into your mouth. (from friends experiences in NSW having listened to interview tapes)
They're bluffing when they say that invoking your right to silence makes you look guilty, it's an interrogation technique.
 
Just wondering if anyone knows that looking like you're on drugs (dilated pupils, dry mouth/licking of lips, munted face, red eyes, wide open eyes, slurring, basically any sort of non-violent drug behavior) is reasonal grounds to search a person where drugs, drug waste, baggies or drug paraphernalia is not in plain view of the police officer.
 
The information below relates to NSW, but is fairly much standard across Australia as far as I know. I believe that the laws surrounding the conduction of serches is ambiguous to say the least.

My understanding of the law is that a Police Officer can conduct a search if he/she believes you have, or are, about to commit an offence. You might also like to pay particular attention to Section 37 (4) ('Powers of search and detention') of the Drug Misuse and Trafficking Act 1985 whereby an officer has to only reasonably suspect you of commiting an offence under the act.

Police Powers in NSW: Background to the Law Enforcement (Powers and Responsibilities) Bill 2001 said:
2.8 The power to stop and conduct searches before and after arrest73

At common law there is no power to conduct a medical examination without the consent of the person, either before or after arrest.74 A police officer could lawfully search the body, clothing and property in the immediate possession of a person arrested, but only if such a search was reasonably believed to be necessary: (a) for the purpose of discovering a concealed weapon which might be used by the person to injure himself or others or to assist escape; or (b) to secure or preserve evidence with respect to the offence for which the person is in custody.75 Thus, the police have a common law power to search a person on arrest, based on the principle of safety in some cases and in others on the interests of justice, in order that evidence of the crime might not be destroyed or lost.

This common law position has been modified by statute. Search powers are provided before a person has been charged with an offence. For example, section 8 of the Search Warrants Act 1985 permits a police officer who is executing a search warrant to search a person found on the premises whom the officer 'reasonably suspects of having a thing mentioned in the warrant'. Further, various provisions also permit police to search persons without a warrant. These include:

  • Section 357 of the Crimes Act 1900 which provides police with a power to detain or search any person in possession in a public place of a 'dangerous article' which is being or has been used in the commission of an offence; police can also seize and detain any such article. Further provision is made for a power to seize dangerous articles found on premises;

  • Section 357E of the Crimes Act 1900 which provides a police officer with the power to stop and search 'any person whom he or she reasonably suspects of having or conveying any thing stolen or otherwise unlawfully obtained or any thing used or intended to be used in the commission of an indictable offence'. A power to search vehicles is also provided for under this section. However, a broader range of powers exist for this purpose under the Police Powers (Vehicles) Act 1998;

  • Section 6 of the Intoxicated Persons Act 1979 which provides that a police officer who has lawfully detained an intoxicated person may search that person and take possession of any personal belongings;

  • Section 29 of the Children (Protection and Parental Responsibility) Act 1997 which empowers a police officer to frisk search a person (under the age of 16 and in an area prescribed by the Act) he believes on reasonable grounds may be carrying a concealed weapon and to take possession of any weapon found in the person's possession, if it is believed that retaining the weapon may be dangerous. A frisk search is defined to mean: a search of a person conducted by quickly running the hands over the person's outer garments; and an examination of anything worn or carried by the person that is conveniently and voluntarily removed by the person;

  • Section 28A of the Summary Offences Act 1988 (the 'knife laws' as introduced by the Crimes Legislation Amendment (Police and Public Safety) Act 1998 ) which permits a police officer, with reasonable grounds to suspect that a person has unlawful custody of a knife or other dangerous implement, to search the person and to examine any bag or other personal effect the person has with them; and

  • Section 37 (4) ('Powers of search and detention') of the Drug Misuse and Trafficking Act 1985 which provides that a member of the police force may stop, search and detain 'any person in whose possession or under whose control the member reasonably suspects there is, in contravention of this Act, any prohibited plant or prohibited drug'.


Among the most significant of these powers are sections 357E of the Crimes Act and section 37 (4) of the Drugs Misuse and Trafficking Act which give police a wide discretion to search without a warrant or before arrest. In both cases a search can only be conducted where a police officer 'reasonably suspects' that there are relevant grounds for it to be conducted. These search powers were outlined and analysed in a recent report by the NSW Ombudsman in which the powers under the above provisions were contrasted with those operating under section 28A of the Summary Offences Act (the knife laws). The report commented that, for police to carry out a search under section 28A:

...they must provide evidence that they are police officers, give their name and station, give the reasons for the search and warn that failure to comply may be an offence. Also, there are practical limits on the intrusiveness of the search permitted.76 There are no such requirements or limits formally set out in the Crimes Act or the Drugs Misuse and Trafficking Act.77

Two issues arise in this context. First, what constitutes 'reasonable grounds' for suspecting a person? Secondly, what, if any, limits can be set on the way searches may be conducted under the broad discretionary powers?

What are reasonable grounds for suspicion to stop and search?

As to the issue of 'reasonable grounds for suspicion' this is said to involve both an objective and a subjective element. The case law suggests that 'reasonable grounds can only be determined by objectively judging the reasonableness of the facts subjectively identified and assessed by the police officer prior to conducting a search in light of all the circumstances in play at the time'.78 Reasonable grounds involves less than a reasonable belief but more than a reasonable possibility.79 According to the Code of Practice for CRIME, reasonable suspicion means 'More than mere imagination or conjecture'.80 The Code advises officers, 'In determining whether you have reasonable suspicion consider all the circumstances of each situation', adding 'Your decision must be objective...'.81 The issue was also discussed in the April 1999 issue of Policing Issues and Practice Journal which commented:

It is extremely difficult to explain what is meant by the term 'reasonable suspicion' beyond that the suspicion must be reasonable in all the circumstances of the particular case. Case law provides some guidance but courts tend to make their assessment on a number of factors rather than any single issue. Suffice to say that you should be prepared to explain why and how you developed your suspicion that the person should be subjected to a search and what you were searching for...Whether your suspicion is reasonable or not is a matter for the court to decide.82

The article went on to say that both the NSW Ombudsman and the Police Service Code of Practice for CRIME have 'expressed the view that it is unreasonable for police officers to stop, detain and search pedestrians under s357E(a) of the Crimes Act (NSW) merely because of their presence in the vicinity of an offence'.83 Officers were also advised in the article not to search 'people just as a matter of routine', and not to use special legislative search powers 'opportunistically' - 'don't use your power to search for knives to carry out a search when your suspicion relates to drugs'.84

What kind of searches may be conducted before arrest?

It has been noted that under section 28A of the Summary Offences Act 1988 (the knife laws) certain restrictions are placed on the power of police to search for knives and other dangerous implements. For instance, police cannot ask a person 'to remove any item of clothing' other than a hat, gloves, coat or jacket. In conducting a search, police may either use a metal detector or search 'by quickly running the hands over the person's outer garments'. If something is found, police may require the person to produce the object, but must warn 'that failure to produce any thing detected or seen by the police officer during the search may be an offence'.
Comparable safeguards and restrictions are not found under the general stop and search provisions. This raises the question as to what limits, if any, are set on the power to search suspects before arrest in these circumstances, or indeed where a person may 'consent' to be searched without any formal authority being invoked?85 The Code of Practice for CRIME advises that usually only frisk searches should be conducted: 'Generally, conduct a frisk search only. A strip search cannot be conducted unless clearly justified'.86 Likewise, the now superseded Commissioner's Instructions stated:

Personal searches of the body in the absence of an arrest are confined to 'frisk' type searches unless the seriousness and urgency of the circumstances require and justify a more intrusive search of the surface of the body.87

The fact remains, however, that sections 357E of the Crimes Act and section 37 (4) of the Drugs Misuse and Trafficking Act are not made subject to explicit statutory safeguards or restrictions.

The power to search after arrest:88

Powers of search and seizure also apply under section 353A (1) of the Crimes Act once a person is in 'lawful custody' and charged with an offence. In these circumstances a police officer 'may search the person and take from the person anything found upon that search'.89 The now superseded Commissioner's Instructions stated expressly that a strip-search could be conducted at this stage, but warned that this should not extend to the searching of body cavities.90 As to when strip searches of the 'surface of the body' may be conducted, Annexure A to the Code of Practice for CRIME explains that there will be 'rare' occasions when such searches are justified, as for example when 'critical evidence relating to the offence being investigated might be lost'. Remember, the Code advises:

Do not strip-search a prisoner unless the seriousness and urgency of the circumstances require and justify a more intrusive search of the surface of the body.
Do not strip-search a prisoner, unless the prisoner knows in substance the reason why it is being imposed.
Do not search body cavities.91

As for searching children, the Code warns that a search can only be conducted in the presence of a support person (unless the child has asked otherwise and has asked in the presence of a support person and that person has agreed).92

Police Powers in NSW: Background to the Law Enforcement (Powers and Responsibilities) Bill 2001
 
In Qld i have heard the term'' probable cause'' thrown around alot by police...if they find something, then i spose they can justify the search8) Everyone needs to know their rights when it comes to this, or have deep pockets to fight in the courts:|

Qld... beuatiful one day
(police) Perfect the next! 8o
 
Splatt said:
Is it legal for police to search you (pat you down, lift your shirt up and check your pockets) every time they see you in public because they know you're on a good behaviour bond, and they have found drugs on you in the past.

Sorry if I should of posted this in an older thread, feel free to merge.

sure is
 
Mr Samadhi said:
In Qld i have heard the term'' probable cause'' thrown around alot by police...if they find something, then i spose they can justify the search8) Everyone needs to know their rights when it comes to this, or have deep pockets to fight in the courts:|

Qld... beuatiful one day
(police) Perfect the next! 8o
lol, love your work :)

Police in QLD seem to have a huge boner for users (having lived in SA and ACT for the last 15 yrs its a big contrast)

"Taking the tough stance!! Getting their shit out on the streets! Taking the fight to ... the media" :p

A 'subjective and an objective reason to search' seem like it will boil down to how good you look in court
 
damn splatt... as far as i'm concerned if a police officer can't provide proof he's a police officer (ie. name and badge number) i'm completely in my rights to treat him as i wish. he touches me, and the assault ensues a cracking in my mind that cannot be stopped without legal authority... ie... don't show me ur badge and try to touch me = free reign to go apeshit on ur ass. self defence is always a good solution to these problems.

and yes... while you cannot legally assault a police officer, you can legally defend yourself against anyone who assaults you. one day i'm going to get myself legally declared as a lethal weapon i swear!!

what i really mean to say is if a cop doesn't show you their badge and give you their name, they are not a cop. you're probably better off just ringing the ombudsmen and working out which cop it was, then getting him fired (which is the punishment for not giving a name and badge number) but without proof you'll get nbo where so maybe it's better to just beat him down and throw his badge away then declare assault.
 
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