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Save Nguyen Tuong Van

It was a cold rainy day in Melbourne on Friday 8.59am.

The Church bells had been sounding for some time...and then they stopped.

Time froze.

I stopped to reflect for a moment.

9.00am arrived.

I shivered........Then I cried.

Sooo sad. So sad.



The empathy one feels from partaking of the chemical MDMA, allows the user to feel and think on a level free from fear based emotion. It could be argued that it "feels" like an evolutionary jump in awareness....a connection with others that connects us to humanity.

When the thought of a fellow human being about to be murdered entered my mind, I drew upon the evolutionary jump and connected with Van's predicament....and felt a sence of helplessness.....and utter sadness.

Hopefully, in a co-creation way, the awareness of our frailty and our humanity will rise as a result of the brutal ignorant prehistoric act that was committed on Van and his family and friends.

I hope we evolve and learn from the execution.

I believe we will.
 
"The empathy one feels from partaking of the chemical MDMA, allows the user to feel and think on a level free from fear based emotion. It could be argued that it "feels" like an evolutionary jump in awareness....a connection with others that connects us to humanity.

When the thought of a fellow human being about to be murdered entered my mind, I drew upon the evolutionary jump and connected with Van's predicament....and felt a sence of helplessness.....and utter sadness.

Hopefully, in a co-creation way, the awareness of our frailty and our humanity will rise as a result of the brutal ignorant prehistoric act that was committed on Van and his family and friends.

I hope we evolve and learn from the execution.

I believe we will."

Posted by BongoBongo.

You have captured the feeling, the essence of humanity in that post. I really hope you are right, i hope humanity doesnt go down the path of destruction, i hope we become better than we are.

Thanks BongoBongo for putting into words what i feel and many others feel, i hope we evolve too.

I believe we will.
 
2muchXTC said:
yeah well dick head look at there percentages 47% said hang him, 46% said no and 7% said they didnt give a fuck

What exactly does that have to do with the price of fish? Further more, how many of those people do you reckon would consume illicit substances regularly in their lifetime? Bluelight is a Harm Reduction site, that opposes the degrading of drug users. As a drug user, like I said before... you are fuelling the black market economy, making huge profits for the people like the ones who were in charge of Van Nguyen smuggling the Heroin.

So, you and your buddies sit in your private homes consuming and enjoying the drugs, that poor people like Van Nguyen had smuggled into the country. In a way, you are giving these people a motive to do what they're doing. But, when they get caught in the end and get killed for providing the market with a substance that you derive entertainment and pleasure from, you sit there and think it's ok that he is going to get hanged?
I honestly don't understand. Sounds somewhat hypocritical in it's own way.

How many of those 47% of people that said hang him, do you think approve of a site like Bluelight?
These people are narrowminded and ignorant and believe that an injustice like the execution of a drug mule, is going to stop their kids from taking drugs.

After reading alot of the comments from Bluelighters that approved of the hanging of Van Tuong Nguyen, it has shown to me that a good percentage of the people on this site, including some of the mods... are in fact not here because they support harm minimisation, but simply use this place as a cesspit, where they can swap conversation on how fucked up they got last week on those "l33tazz bikkiez" they dumped at that "bombazz Rave/club".


2muchxtc, think about having a break for a bit eh? seems MDMA is really taking it's toll on you and your ability to comprehend reality that surrounds you.
 
2muchxtc: in your world, keeping it "simple" would be the destruction of many, many lives. Someone getting executed is not "simple", the discussion about the controversy of Van Nguyen's hanging is very far frim "simple". If a world were to take things "simple"... as you like to put it. There would be death and destruction all around.

It is foolish people such as yourself, that gives the drug user a bad image.
 
The guy could have paid off that debt in other ways. Could have sold hise Mitsubishi GTO with wings aned blue lights underneith it. Could have taken out a loan because he was like a salesman or someshit could have moved told police. But no chose too risk it. Victims of Crime agency should have a emergency gangster debt system that they pay off lol
 
Van Nguyen: Hello, I would like to file for a personal loan for $30,000 dollars.
Loans Officer: Yea, sure. You are aware that in order to apply for a loan, you must have a minimum of X.XX percent of the money in your personal bank account.
Van Nguyen: Yes, I am aware of that.
Loans Officer: Great! Now... I hope you understand that the other prerequisite for getting a personal loan is that you provide us with the adequate details of the item you are purchasing.
Van Nguyen: Ohh, nah I can't, I actually needed the money to pay back a crime Syndicate boss that sells drugs. Actually, my brother incurred these debts and I wanted to help him, otherwise his life is in grave danger.
*Loans Manager scratches head and frowns*
Loans Manager: Hmm... these guys don't hand out receipts now do they?

Can you please provide me a link to the information that stated Van Tuong Nguyen owned a Mitsubishi GTO?
The crime members that hired him, said that if he was to later bail out of the plan of trafficking the drugs, his family would be tracked and killed. These people usually don't talk out of their arse either. I'm sure if he dobbed them in to the police, the members would have retaliated by not only harming Khoa, but possibly the mother as well.

I know as a son, to a mother that I love dearly, I would not want my mother to be in such danger. Don't know about you though. :\
 
Diacetylus said:
Van Nguyen: Hello, I would like to file for a personal loan for $30,000 dollars.
Loans Officer: Yea, sure. You are aware that in order to apply for a loan, you must have a minimum of X.XX percent of the money in your personal bank account.
Van Nguyen: Yes, I am aware of that.
Loans Officer: Great! Now... I hope you understand that the other prerequisite for getting a personal loan is that you provide us with the adequate details of the item you are purchasing.
Van Nguyen: Ohh, nah I can't, I actually needed the money to pay back a crime Syndicate boss that sells drugs. Actually, my brother incurred these debts and I wanted to help him, otherwise his life is in grave danger.
*Loans Manager scratches head and frowns*
Loans Manager: Hmm... these guys don't hand out receipts now do they?

Can you please provide me a link to the information that stated Van Tuong Nguyen owned a Mitsubishi GTO?
The crime members that hired him, said that if he was to later bail out of the plan of trafficking the drugs, his family would be tracked and killed. These people usually don't talk out of their arse either. I'm sure if he dobbed them in to the police, the members would have retaliated by not only harming Khoa, but possibly the mother as well.


I know as a son, to a mother that I love dearly, I would not want my mother to be in such danger. Don't know about you though. :\

$30 000, if members of his immediate family chuked in a g each or his extended family chucked in a buck each they could have covered it. I guess the moral of the story is not to get involved with gangs in the first place. What about three years ago once the gangsters realised he had been caught and the heroin didn't make it through, his mother and brother seem fine on the news. What stopped them from harming his mother or brother. Im assuming the debt is still unpaid, what about the cash forked out to pay lex lasry? That could have been put toward the debt.

And why wouldnt Khoa take action instead considering it was his debt. Im thinking theres more that meets the eye.
 
Ok, first off. This isn't about being sympathetic towards Khoa, even though I stated earlier that I WAS friends with him earlier on in the year. I think you will find mainly people are pouring out their hearts to Kim, the mother and when he was alive, Van.
You're seriously trying to make the story sound more simple than what it actually was and by me proving that it wasn't quite that simple, you're trying to stretch it out further looking for other ways he could have paid the debt, that quite obviously (in my eyes) wouldn't have worked.

If you actually took the time to read the whole background of the story and more than one article (there has been an extensive amount of updates over the past 6 months or so), something you should really do before judging what he *should have* or *could have* done, you will come to find that there were only 3 whole members of the family. The mother being a refugee from Vietnam and fleeing to Australia with her two only sons. Clearly no other family members.

Van Tuong Nguyen didn't initially get involved with gangs in the first place, it was his brother Khoa that did. He had no control of his brother getting involved with Drug dealers and such, he had his own life at the time.
He only got involved when he found out that his mother and brother were in grave danger.

Now, you go on to mention about the syndicate not harming anyone because Khoa still ended up failing to pay the debts, and Van didn't end up succesfully bringng the drugs back to his final destination. Well, the would have been pissed off about that, but he still held his end of the bargain and went through with it. Doubt they're gonna bother. and wouldn't you think it would be a stupid thing to do, killing or doing anything to Khoa and Kim when the Police are already hot on there shoes about what's going on. They are only going to attract attention, especially with all the media surrounding Khoa and Kim since Van's apprehension.

Well, either way. Van is dead now, so there is not much that can be done about it. But, I am glad to hear that Australia has strugled relations with Singapore. Hopefully next time they think twice about being so barbaric.
and, I'd imagine people like yourself, who think he deserved to die are satisfied with the outcome. Which, to me is really sad how other people can gain satisfaction out of the death of another human being.

One more thing, Lex Lasry Q.C. volanteered to do his work for nothing. He has not charged the family one penny. You will find alot of high profile Q.C.s will do this. For such a big case.
 
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Ohh, and clop. If you read the name of this thread. The topic is "Save Van Tuong Nguyen", not "Save Tony Ford". If you start up a thread in the North American Discusssion forums, I'm sure you will get alot of people to start up a petition for it.
 
DNFTT

Quit it with the personal attacks and flamebait. If you can't discuss this issue without getting personal about each other I can just lock the thread for you to solve everyones problems.

BigTrancer.
 
Diacetylus said:
Ohh, and clop. If you read the name of this thread. The topic is "Save Van Tuong Nguyen", not "Save Tony Ford". If you start up a thread in the North American Discusssion forums, I'm sure you will get alot of people to start up a petition for it.

Sorry Diacetylus, I thought we were up in arms about capital punishment. I didn't realise we were only up in arms about capital punishment for Australians. Who cares about people in other countries anyway. Someone else can fight for them. You're right - our morals and ethics should only extend as far as the border.

clop
 
I don't recall saying what you're trying to imply. But, if you were to bring up every single capital punishment case we would be sitting here behind our PC's discussing the matter for weeks without sleep. Something I'm not willing to dedicate my time to.
Capital Punishment, no matter the nationality of the victim, is barbaric, but as I said before this thread is about Van Tuong Nguyen, as the thread name is titled. Why can't we just stick to the topic at hand and not get sidetracked and pull it off topic.
 
The real hit behind our heroin habit
By John Fitzgerald
December 7, 2005

Singapore and Australia must see heroin as a global industry in which their economies are snared, writes John Fitzgerald.

opin_071205_narrowweb__300x349,0.jpg

Illustration: Spooner

IN DEFENDING their decision to execute convicted Australian drug trafficker Nguyen Tuong Van last Friday, the Singapore Government claimed the 396 grams of heroin he was carrying when arrested at Changi Airport three years ago was the equivalent of 26,000 "hits" on the street.

This dramatic statistic drew considerable media attention, but it is a figure very much open to debate. In fact, it is a minuscule amount in the context of the Australian heroin market, not to mention the burgeoning global heroin trade.

A figure of 26,000 doses represents just one day's supply for the illicit drug market in Melbourne, or the amount that would supply 45 dependent heroin users for one year. It certainly doesn't equate to 26,000 potential deaths, as the Singaporeans implied and some commentators asserted.

We can fall into the trap of focusing on the individual dimensions of the illegal drug market. We need to keep an eye on the bigger picture. Rather than seeing the opium drug market as an aberration of market economies, it is a central part of modern economies both in terms of direct capital flows and indirect investments in the political economies of transitional nations.

There is a systematic underestimation of the magnitude of the drug market and an overestimation of Australia's capacity both here and overseas to dull its influence.

The demand for injectable drugs in Victoria has never been greater, with syringe distribution in 2005 reaching the highest levels ever. Nevertheless, Australian Federal Police Commissioner Mick Keelty suggested recently on the ABC's Lateline program that the AFP contribution to the arrest of the Bali 9 would save 2000 lives.

This claim is misleading, to say the least. At the rate at which heroin and other opioid overdose is now occurring in Australia, it would take five to six years for 2000 lives to be saved. We doubt whether the Bali 9 could ever have supplied the entire Australian heroin market for such a period.

In 2004-2005, global opium production was equivalent to opium production in 2000, at the height of the heroin "glut" in Australia. While the Australian heroin shortage in 2001 produced dramatic effects, its direct causes remain the subject of considerable debate.

What is clear is that, like the drug users who managed to deal with the Australian heroin shortage by switching to substitutes, international illegal drug markets are adaptable, complex and larger than many national economies. We need to paint this bigger picture as it is now and how it has developed in relation to global capital markets.

Carl Trocki in his history of opium in South-East Asia clearly documented how opium markets driven by British concerns opened the doors for capitalism in Asia. The opium market created mass consumer markets, generated cash flows, rearranged class lines in producer countries, established viable trade routes and created new political-economic structures.

As Trocki wrote, opium functioned as a "keystone" commodity as it was the one element in a larger economic system "upon which the entire complex of relationships came to depend". The opium market did not rise out of disorder, rather it redefined social and political realities around the commodity relationships fundamental to market capitalism.

Similarly, recent crop-eradication initiatives have encountered the economic reality that opium is still a keystone commodity in Afghanistan and Burma. In some parts of Burma, reducing the amount of land available for opium production in 2005 has simply resulted in greater efficiencies, with production yields increasing by 19 per cent from 2004 levels.

It is difficult to track down the direct investment of drug markets into economies. However, it has been reported that in 1992, half the Peruvian labour force was employed in the informal sector sustained by drug-related capital. In Cali, Colombia, during the same period, the construction industry grew by 37 per cent, building luxury accommodation for the drug industry, according to the United National Drug Control Program. The International Narcotics Control Board estimated around 3 per cent of the combined rural population of Afghanistan and Colombia was engaged in illicit drug production at the end of the 1990s. Drug production was also estimated to directly generate up to 15 per cent of GDP in Afghanistan and Burma in the same period.

In Australia, it has been reported in the media and asserted in the courts that Crown Casino has been a site for laundering of large amounts of drug money.

The indirect contributions of drug markets to economies are also notable. In an environment where the Burmese junta has been shunned by the international community for its human rights abuses, and for its reliance on narco-dollars, Singapore investors have been major contributors to its infrastructure.

In addition, the Singapore Government, through its subsidiary SIA Engineering and Region Air, has had strong financial interest in Myanmar Airways International. As MIA is the only airline conducting international flights out of Burma, Singapore benefits indirectly from maintaining good relations with Burma and sustaining important infrastructure for this corrupt Government. Similar indirect relationships between sovereign governments and illicit drug trade also abound in central Asia and South America.

When Prime Minister John Howard said the lesson we should take from Nguyen's death was not to use drugs, he obscured the bigger picture.

We need to acknowledge that drug markets are insinuated through the very market economies that are meant to sustain us. If we are to reduce the harm of illegal drugs, our leaders must articulate the bigger picture and trust the community to understand and accept some difficult policy choices ahead.

Associate Professor John Fitzgerald is VicHealth senior research fellow at the Centre for Health and Society, Melbourne University. Associate Professor Paul Dietze of the Turning Point Alcohol and Drug Centre contributed to this article.

From The Age
 
In a way you could say hes a hero. He litterally gave his life for his mother and troubled brother. Propbably knowing that this would happen.
 
All I know is this - FUCK Singapores government and anyone associated with it.
 
For the purposes of a boycott if anybody is interested, I believe the Singapore Govt has an ownership stake in Optus, AV Jennings, Singapore Airlines, ViewQWEST and Australand. And if you are a customer and you want to boycott them, letting them know why you no longer support the company would hopefully send a valuable message to them.
 
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