san pedro cactii in Melbourne - potency and preparation

[opiate]

Recently I purchased a 3 foot live San Pedro cactus from one of Melbourne better known market places and shared it between 3 friends - each consuming approx 8" in length of the cactus.
Preparation basically consisted of de-spining and skinning a 25" portion of the cactus and carefully cutting away the dark green layer just beneath the skin, leaving the pale - white innards behind. The pieces of the green layer were then chucked into a blender with many kiwi-fruit and pureed, then shared between myself and 3 others.
My two issues are that - (not so important) the puree, rather than mixing down into a nice thick sludgy liquid, seemed to absorb a heap of air when it was blended and became a very whispy sludge, similar consistancy to light whipped cream - this made is fairly difficult to consume. More importantly, the trip itself was extremely weak - we all felt the effects, however it was hardly at the intensity we expected from reading trip reports and misc mescaline literature on erowid.
My question to any experienced cactii shamen and shaladies is this - Did we prepare the cactus wrong and thus didn't consume the mescaline amount required for a strong trip - or are the san pedro's available in our city generally bearing low mescaline content? I'm eager for any replies of any people who have consumed san pedro - any suggestions for preparation or helpful or ways to identify stronger san pedros would be really welcome. Although we didn't trip balls, what we did all feel was definately a prelude to something amazing.

 

[special-k]

I saw a doco where it was actually cut up into chunks (skin and all)and cooked (in its own juices?) down into a thick liquid like sludge, cooled, and then drank..
It's supposed to taste really bad, but I guess it would be worth it...
Also, take a a look here.
happy trippin'

 

[BigTrancer]

Although we didn't trip balls, what we did all feel was definately a prelude to something amazing.
That's a really good start, I'm glad you were able to appreciate the experience for what it was, rather than be disappointed. Good luck with your cacti!
BigTrancer

 

[inf3cted]

i meant to post last night... but didnt have a link ready to show a recipe... I was thinking along the lines of what special-k posted... a brew made out of the cactus...
From an online source.....
"There are several drawbacks to mescaline. For one, mescaline containing cacti like peyote or San Pedro have a very bitter and almost intolerable taste. Also, stomach pains and nausea are more common with mescaline than other hallucinogens. If you're able to get over these two aspects, a mescaline trip often results in mind altering and evolutionary changes in your perception that no other hallucinogen is known to mimic.
Mescaline preparation: This section is going to pertain mainly to San Pedro since peyote normally comes in easy to ingest "buttons." For the peyote user, we will be talking about the process of which you extract mescaline from cacti. As a rule of thumb, it normally takes a 4-8 inch cutting of San Pedro to reach the desired effects. Keep in mind this article is simply to expose you to the possibilities of this plant, not to actually provide you with instruction. Do not repeat any of these steps on your own as it could lead you your own self destruction. Method 1 - fresh cuttings to consumable beverage: The first step of this process is to skin the cactus as well as remove it's spines. Do not throw the skin away as it has a fairly high mescaline content. Instead one should put the skin into a fairly large pot. Next, in the same pot, mash the remaining components of the cactus. Now, add water so the skin and mashed up parts of the cactus are completely submerged. Cook the cactus at a low boil for several hours (at least 2-3). The remaining water can then be further boiled down to the desired thickness. Drink this beverage and you should feel the effects in a half hour or so. Method 2 - drying the cacti: Drying a cactus such as San Pedro or Peyote is quite simple. First, you must slice the cactus into 1/2 inch slices. Next, allow the slices to dry either in the sun or in the oven at a low heat (200-250 degrees Fahrenheit). After completely dried, simply consume the desired amount of cactus. Now I know it should be common sense, but let me remind you that the spines must be removed either before drying or ingesting... unless of course you enjoy puncturing your intestines.
Method 3 - extraction: Unfortunately the process of extracting mescaline is a fairly involved chemical procedure, because of this we have decided to link out to: http://diseyes.lycaeum.org/cact/mescfmpd.txt
-------------------------------------------------
Hopefully we will have some interesting posts from you regarding more Cacti experience in the "Trip reports" forum
peace & stay safe.
p.s : I really havent been able to answer your questions but just thought id post the recipe. Iv had no exeperience with mescaline at all let alone being a cacti shaman!
[ 08 January 2003: Message edited by: inf3cted ]

 

[Maxi]

I think the main problem when dosing with san pedro/peyote is that the alkaloid content will vary (sometimes greatly) from plant to plant... so it can be hard to get the dosage right, especially if you are unfamiliar with it.
one idea i have heard tho:
after cutting the cactii, leave the portion that is to be consumed in the sun for up to 2 weeks. the stress from cutting it can help to increase the alkaliod levels.
M

 

[opiate]

Quote from San Pedro potency faq:

There is also a legend of a "purple pachanoi" that was reputed to be very powerful. Turning purple is also a symptom of phototoxicity (over-exposure to sun).
Hmm maybe I will try leaving my cutting to sit in the sun for a while.

 

[phase_dancer]

There had always been the big San Pedro cactus at the edge of town. As a kid I would look out of the car window, fascinated by its appearance and size. It indeed was a landmark. When word of the cactus spread, every large variety in town got attacked. Within a couple of months the big San Pedro was reduced to a single short stump
As a teenager in NZ many years ago, I often saw he cactus being prepared. The usual way back then was to boil the inner part, but not the centre ( the bit just under the darker skin) for ~45 mins mins, cool and then attempt to drink. It would often take on the consistency of glue, but if you could drink it, it usually did the trick.
I don't know how much truth is in this, but it was said that many of the undesirable alkaloids
were avoided by ommiting the outer and centre parts of the San Perdro
I saw some pretty messy people on the cactus, and there are some rather funny accounts from that time. However, there's also a couple of somewhat scary tales.
If you decide its for you, remember to start off light and ALWAYS have someone straight around - someone who everyone trusts. People often seemed to do things they normally wouldn't such as wanting to drive a car when they couldn't determine the shape of the car itself!
A night when I was co-pilot; straight and along for the ride, I was driving a bunch of cactus tripping people to a party. A normally very conservative guy - the martial arts, health oriented, normally no drugs type - asked me to stop the car. He got out and walked off into a farm paddock, disappearing into the night and not returning for 2 days.
His life was changed and his clothes were ruined 8(

 

[Scatteredasfuck]

^^^Just curious did it change his life in a positive or negative way?

 

[Cowboy Mac]

when dealing with cacti dosage it should be done by weight, not by length as diameter of the cactus can vary and this means that you may get the dosage wrong. if you extract the mescaline out of the cactus you also extract out the other alkaloids, which gives a different overall feel that when compared to only mescaline (synthetic) supposedly. if you extract it out it is easier to determine dosage, which is also depentant on chemicals used during the extraction. there are plenty of sites about it anyway.

 

[Samadhi]

At what temperature did you boil the preparation? Also, traditional preparation of san pedro doesn't call for de-skinning of the cactci. There are many differing opinions regarding where the bulk of the alkaloids are...some also say that most of the chemicals that induce emisis lay in the skin...but in all the documentation regarding the traditional preparation of san pedro that we've read, the cactus is chopped, placed in a cooking pot, and boiled slowly over many hours...when it is fully reduced, the consistency will be a sludge...similar to large amounts of aloe-vera.
As a point of interest, if your boiled preparation has a white consistency, you've overheated the preparation.
[ 21 January 2003: Message edited by: samadhi ]

 

[offmetree]

ok try this ; after boiling gently for few hrs you will end up with a gooey jelly like sustance if you zap small amounts of this in ther microwave you will end up with a hard crystally substance which when crushed can be snorted /eaten/put into pills woteva also great smoked,
also in regards to earlier pst i agree the potency varies between supplies and als at diffrent times of year there are several species of trichocereus available and trying diffrent species may be worthwhile,you shpould be able to get most of these from * they have an excellent selection of cacti doyour homework and you will find out that there are quite a lot of different cacti you can try,they all have differing alkaloids therefore you will get differing effects off diffrent species
[Edit: NO SUPPLIERS - Please read the guidelines. BigTrancer]
[ 31 January 2003: Message edited by: BigTrancer ]

 

[mandarin]

hello,
what ever you read as a reasonable dose ie 8 inchs, i suggest doubling this.
the problem with this is the large quantity of dried material or sludge you need to consume.
go for the really dark green san pedro and make sure they are really san pedro.

 

[phase_dancer]

Scatteredasfuck wrote

Just curious did it change his life in a positive or negative way?
Well it's hard to say really. He, like most people had his shit to go through. Subjectively he did remark that he felt he got some deep introspection from taking the cactus, but its important to note that most of the group were looking for a way to get out of it rather than any religious experience
Samadhi, brewing may have been for longer than 45mins on average. I remember one time where it simmered for hours. Exact temperature was never monitored, although gentle boiling only was required to stop the residue you mentioned. The method came from an old book (mine fell to pieces ) called the NZ whole earth catalogue. This was where I first learned of morning glory and lysergic amides, and other interesting xenotypes of the area such as scotch broom (Cytisus scoparius).
Knowledge of this method (preparing and boiling) was fairly widespread in NZ during the late 70's, much to the demise of the cacti
If wishing to extract active alkaloids from such a cactus, a better method would be to boil in methanol, extract with dichloromethane, perform several A/B’s etc. before finally crystallising. The level of active alkaloids would be high and undesirable fats will be eliminated, but the product will still be likely to contain some undesirables. This was I believe the “mescaline” I was once privy enough to be given. It was nothing like the crudely boiled extract, and an incredibly powerful hallucinogen.
The microwave method is interesting, but I would be somewhat worried about what else may be produced through the action of microwaves on such a mixture.
Any references available on this procedure?

 

[Cowboy Mac]

please do not measure you dose by length, use weight as diameter of the cactus plays a huge part and you usually end up under estimating your dose because you are using young, thin catci.

 

[mikedj]

yeah can anyone add anything to the microwave technique mentioned above?, Offmetree how well did the microwave technique work for you? was the trip good and how did you consume it after you had microwaved it? by caps or ingesting or smoking? your answers will be awaited eagerly thanks

 

[Immortal Teknique]

The best San Pedro tek or method i have seen is on the shroomery.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/2281314/an/0/page/7

Very straight forward, very comprehensive with detailed pictures and all. I recommend it to anyone looking to try and get mescaline from pedro/p.torch or any other mesc containg cactus

Note: Just realised how old this thread is. Why dig up such old topics 8) ?? Ahh well, this may help anyone who is looking to do it atm.

 

[phatwithapkoolwithak]

mikedj - Do not microwave your San Pedro unless you have a lot to experiment with. Microwaving, even very small time periods on low wattages, really fucks with organic matter. Your alkaloids are precious in your San Pedro.
If you do have bulk San Pedro though, let us know the results.

Below (Microwave Hazards) from here http://www.alternative-doctor.com/allergydotcom/microwavehazards1.htm

Extremely short exposure of raw, cooked or frozen vegetables converted their plant alkaloids into carcinogens.

Various kinds of damages to many plant substances, such as alkaloids, glucosides, galactosides and nitrilosides.

Carcinogenic free radicals were formed in microwaved plants, especially root vegetables.

maxi, If you are still alive and reading this thread, I would not immediately suggest what you have said below.

after cutting the cactii, leave the portion that is to be consumed in the sun for up to 2 weeks. the stress from cutting it can help to increase the alkaliod levels.

Stress does indeed increases alkaloid levels, but cutting is generally used during growth to promote strength. Over the entire season before harvest, you can carefully make a number of cuts around the base (on healthier sections) using a sterile scalpel. If you avoid infection, and keep the process up, alkaloid levels should slowly increase.

Also I don't think youy should leave an unrooted cutting in the sun for too long.

Below from here http://users.lycaeum.org/~iamklaus/concentr.htm# Concentrating & increasing alkaloids.

Shade - There have been several reports that leaving live, or cut Tricocereus in the shade for several months prior to harvesting does increase the percentage of alkaloids in the tissues of the plant. It is also common in Mexico and South America to leave cut Cacti in large covered stacks for some time prior to being sold. There may be a good reason for that practice.

You'd be much better off leaving the cutting in the shade for a period of time before boiling down. Although they love sun, they sunburn so easily, and any large section of freshly exposed flesh would, I believe, suffer extreme damage in a matter of days. I don't believe this would increase alkaloids, however, somebody please correct me if I am wrong.

High levels of sun during growth however, I would encourage. But once again watch for sunburn, you must ween them slowly into sunnier areas.

Excess Sun and Heat - Too much Sun or heat will most definitely stress a live Cactus. It must be realized however, that increasing the alkaloids through stressing will greatly affect the plants growth rate, and might just kill it. Cactus can and do get sunburned, which can be fatal.

 

[BigTrancer]

That article on Microwave Hazards was clearly not written by a scientist... It references a lot of actual studies and presents selected results in an attempt to back up the points made, but the conclusions drawn from the research by the author of the web article are extremely questionable in my mind.

BigTrancer

 

[phatwithapkoolwithak]

Yeah look at the address, www.alternative-doctor.com, haha.

But seriously, the Russians looked into microwaves for a long time. Hehe, that sounds funny. No wait, I said seriously. They even wanted to use them for brain control, and outlawed their use in the 70's.

My point is microwaves can damage plant matter, in particular have an adverse affect on alkaloids, and also vitamins and minerals.

Most sites look like the same crap I linked to earlier.

This one still has a humourous looking address, http://www.detailshere.com/microwavemadness.htm and is the same sorta crap, but is black on white, and if you scroll down to the bottom, then read upwards after you see the words:

FORENSIC RESEARCH DOCUMENT
Prepared By: William P. Kopp
A. R. E. C. Research Operations
TO61-7R10/10-77F05
RELEASE PRIORITY: CLASS I ROO1a

Then you are reading the Russian research results. I think.

 

[mindsurfer]

I would endorse Method 1 described by Infected above. The trick is to reduce the brew down as far as you can - the more concentrated it is the less you have to drink.

The taste is not really that bad, but it is indescribably bitter.

Also, be careful, as the mescaline content varies widely from cactus to cactus. First, as has been stated above, you must work with weight.

I carefully weighed my (two & half foot) of cactus before de-spining and boiling it. Once the reduction was complete, I calculated what I thought would be a threshold dose, using info from Erowid. This turned out to be a cup.

I only managed to get down about three-quarters of a cup. This delivered a full-blown 10 hour trip with quite profound visuals and a "chat" with an entity that asked "what are you doing here again?"

The brew from my 2-1/2 foot of cactus constituted about 15 doses of that strength.

(I didn't partake again, after my "chat" with the entity, but I still have the cactus, which six years later is near its original size. It's clearly a very potent one.)