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Lost Rock bottom.

lifeisnt

Greenlighter
Joined
Dec 26, 2015
Messages
3
I’ve reached my limit now and don’t feel like I’m getting the help and support I need.

I’ve been plagued with mental health issues for over 10 years and because I didn’t know I had these issues for years I didn’t seek help.. I just thought I was different and that’s how my life will be.

This led to me taking opiates because they were helping me with the depression and anxiety(I didn’t know I was depressed or had anxiety) I have.. so obviously I became addicted to opiates and when I finally realised I was addicted I also realised I could get help for depression and severe anxiety I got put on Dihydrocodeine 240mg twice a day and every type of SSRI they have.

Because my depression and anxiety didn’t get any better I turned back to the opiates and for 4 years now I’ve been struggling.. I did have prescription medication support services but because of work I missed appointments and got discharged and referred to substance misuse.

I’ve been to two assessments with them and been told I’m on a waiting list and near the top a few times because I’ve been calling and checking to see if I got assigned a key worker and got an appointment with their doctor. It’s been 3months and my life has just been spiralling out of control so I’ve been updating them on my situation and when talking to one of their support workers last week I told them how bad things have got and tried to explain everything but she was just one of the most unsympathetic and insincere people I’ve ever talked to and basically called me a life when I said why are people telling me I’m near the top of the waiting list and said you’re not a priority right now...

I’d just like to add that the stereotype of aggressive and violent opiate addicts isn’t true and I’ve never been violent or aggressive to anyone, never raised my voice or argued with anyone and been as polite as I could be to anyone listening to me.


Between all the stuff going on with substance misuse I switched doctors because I need help and wasn’t really getting it at my old doctor plus the receptionists always have a problem with my family and prescriptions go missing so I’d be stuck without medication because I’m the addict so I’m the one who lies to get more medication which is not the case I’ve never lied..
Anyway I switched and the new doctors got told by my old doctors reception that 3 weeks of medication had been printed and I should be okay until x date.. I didn’t receive those prescriptions so i was stuck for 3 weeks without medication which was the start of the problems and relapse.

I’ve told my current doctor what I take and I can’t take the prescribed dose so have been illicitly getting some Zomorph and now because of inconsistencies with my ability to get medication I’ve ended up dependant on 300mg of Zomorph a day and sometimes I can only get 200mg Zomorph so take 400mg per day. Everyone I’ve told just says carry on like that for now and wait until you get in with substance misuse.. I’m crying out for help and I’m not getting anything.

My existence is go to work and smile like everything is normal, get home and spend my life in my bedroom in bed, crying a lot my depression has never been this bad, my anxiety has never been this bad and I get no help or medication for that.

For the past few years I’ve been suicidal but too scared to tell anyone...

To sum it up.. I’m addicted to opiates heavily but my doctor won’t help so I’m on a waiting list for substance misuse. I can’t afford to supply my own medication anymore, I’m suicidal and I don’t feel like I can fight that anymore, I’m depressed and have bad anxiety, I have no social life and spend my life alone in my bedroom. Withdrawal makes all those feelings worse and I can’t deal with that. I know there’s loads of numbers and places to call to talk but no one can do anything about withdrawal.

I’m at the end of my tether with it and I’m going to see my doctor one last time Monday to see if they will help but I doubt it. I need prescribing something stronger than the low amount of DHC I’m on, I need some help with my depression and anxiety but the doctors won’t help with that and the suicidal thoughts will be helped once I get in with substance misuse.

I’m not the type of person to make a big deal out of anything and I’ll let them know I want to kill myself but I’m not going to tell people I’ll do it or ring any numbers and talk to someone.. the anonymity of this website which allows me to make this post anonymously is why I’ve made this post because I’d never do it if someone knew who I was.

It’s supposed to be easy to get help these days... right? Nope I’ve exhausted the only channels that can help.

Sorry for making you read this..

I’ll just be another figure on some statistic somewhere.




EDIT: To be completely clear I’m not saying I’m going to kill myself, I’m just saying I’m struggling with it and I’m not getting help.
 
Last edited:

nuttynutskin

Bluelighter
Joined
May 15, 2011
Messages
8,405
I've never heard of opiates being prescribed for depression but I have heard of them worsening depression in the long run. You might have to be more proactive about getting help... Help is out there but sometimes it's frustrating to go through the hoops. Do know that if you tell a doctor that you want to kill yourself they could section you.
 

lifeisnt

Greenlighter
Joined
Dec 26, 2015
Messages
3
I've never heard of opiates being prescribed for depression but I have heard of them worsening depression in the long run. You might have to be more proactive about getting help... Help is out there but sometimes it's frustrating to go through the hoops. Do know that if you tell a doctor that you want to kill yourself they could section you.
The opiates were used by me to help with anxiety mostly but when I was depressed I took them as well... basically I was getting high which made me feel good and less anxious. I was self medicating and did not know they were addictive, I knew they weren’t good for my health which I was always worried about but never addiction.
They were prescribed for addiction.

At the moment, no matter what I say to the doctor they won’t help with the addiction issues which are absolutely worsening my depression which is why I’m so keen to start a program to get off them. They don’t seem too bothered that I’m at the lowest I’ve ever felt and my anxiety is worse than ever before.
 

Shady's Fox

Bluelight Crew
Joined
Jul 12, 2017
Messages
2,236
Location
Palm trees & sea, just walkin along the beach.
This isn't rock bottom, I don't think you know what rock bottom means, I mean you have internet right? This's what I am sayin, see. Now I really shouldn't open up this way but with the sacrifice that on future you will know what rock bottom means. I didn't had parents, been orphan and most of my life I was rejected by 99% of families even though I was really good at so many things but they.. mhmm *close eyes* look, not a single one told me the reason as to why they didn't want me, though one, told me this ”You are so fragile still too old for this world still extremely old, because I know myself, my limits, weakness and strenghts I don't want to kidnap your freedom, I know my league and I went deaf, just starin into nothin. Then she drove me back and.. at that time I was if I remember right.. mhmm?.. 14? 14 yeah, I couldn't bare there anymore, I escaped and just ran off into this boring useless world. I remember my first night on streets and for the first time I knew what a roof means or to be more precise, how important a mattress is, I wanted to kill myself because I didn't had no future.. then I look at these headsets of mine, I still got them now into a box somewhere into the attic along with other memories of mine, with duct tape around because they were broken.. Sorry, I can't go on, I just can't. I have this unsettlings feelin because you know.. opening yourself up this way to a bunch of strangers that don't give a shit, honestly I wouldn't either still it's.. let's stay at it's.
 

Nicomorphinist

Bluelighter
Joined
Apr 18, 2019
Messages
1,052
Location
Everywhere
I've never heard of opiates being prescribed for depression but I have heard of them worsening depression in the long run. You might have to be more proactive about getting help... Help is out there but sometimes it's frustrating to go through the hoops. Do know that if you tell a doctor that you want to kill yourself they could section you.
Although things with neurotoxic metabolites like pethidine and methadone, and those with receptor-activation profiles which include opioid receptor antagonism and/or high κ opioid receptor activity can be very unhelpful, yes narcotics were used for depression medically and yes, they do work. Opiates, generally morphine, codeine, whole opium, and some dihydromorphine, dihydrocodeine, hydromorphone and diamorphine later, were used for depression all the way up to the approval of the first tricyclic depressants in the 1950s. Narcotics are being researched again for this purpose, starting with oxymorphone in Continental Europe in the late 1990s, and a large number of others including morphine and others discussed below.

Narcotics were also used as anxiolytics and sedatives and as an alternative to the hypnotics then available, which were bromides, chloral derivatives & paraldehyde, barbiturates, belladonna, sulphonal, and alcohol. The understanding of what is commonly called Obsessive Compulsive Disorder these days was not what it is today back in the day, but the above uses and the fact that a quick blast of euphoria, anxiolysis, relief of depression, and any drowsiness could interrupt a cycle of compulsive behaviour just cranking up.

In all likelihood, a big fraction of unsupervised and non- and semi-compliant therapeutic opioid use is self-medication, and now chronic pain patients are being sent to the underground to get their medications because of the DEA/AMA/Correctional officers' unions/yellow journalists/Rehab gangsters and cultists' fake opioid cri$i$.

In countries with less draconian policies and compromise of the medical profession than in the United States, making a choice for a certain narcotic for a pain patient and keeping them on it indefinitely because it helps the depression and/or anxiety enough to allow them to return to a fully productive and happy life is indeed known, and even in the United States, a doctor with such dual-diagnosis patient who knows what her or she is doing, has done a comprehensive history, and works with other physicians for more sets of eyes and political CYA will avoid certain narcotics, prioritise others, and choose adjuncts and potentiators carefully. Oxycodone and tramadol with cyclobenzaprine, trazadone, and/or orphenadrine is one recipe used in such cases, often with dextromethorphan.

Conversely, the first-generation anti-depressants like amitryptiline are excellent narcotic potentiators and are analgesics in the naproxen-diclofenac range all by themselves. I even use an aciclovir+amitryptiline+tetracaine+mepivacaine+lignocaine+benzocaine+procaine+morphine+dexamethasone+ketoprofen cream for shingles.

A lesson we can take with the overlap betwixt narcotics and antidepressants, and also second-generation antidepressants like duloxetine are used as narcotic potentiators, is that analgesia and euphoria are part of the same process, can never be separated, and there will never be non-euphoriant painkillers. Many people get a mood lift from naproxen, ibuprofen, and other Nsaids. Part of that is that when the pain is going or gone, people feel better.

Also my discussions with Opioid Substitution Therapy experts make it clear that for people living with diagnosed and relatively straightforward cases of depression, they also are as choosy with agents as allowed, with morphine, hydromorphone, and DHC preferred where available and tramadol being tried as it is a relatively new OST agent, detoxification is generally frowned upon in favour of maintenance, and cold-turkey withdrawal and accelerated detoxification with clonidine and clonazepam are verboten, at least as far as the doctors themselves are concerned.

Research is now underway on using oxymorphone, butorphanol. hydromorphone, tapentadol, tramadol, morphine, dihydrocodeine, and some others for at least treatment-resistant depression. Most others will work as well. An obvious choice, and one showing that there is neither a linear nor a one-way connexion of antidepressant effect and analgesic potency, is hydrocodone.

The main exceptions are the benzomorphans as a class, most of the 4-phenylpiperidines (ketobemidone may be an exception), some but not all of the morphinans -- but the research on dextromethorphan also being an antidepressant in addition to other things makes me think that the racaemic parent drug, dromoran or racemorphan, which includes dextromethorphan's active metabolite DXO and the powerful narcotic levorphanol would be a very good antidepressant, anxiolytic, sedative and maybe more -- and I would think that the fentanils are potentially unsuitable because the absolute degree of κ opioid activity and perhaps the overall receptor activation profile of fentanyl and others can cause hallucinations and the like. Benzimidazoles are being researched, but many have durations of action under an hour. Members of all of the branches of the open chain opioids, including levomethadone, dipipanone, dextromoramide, dimenoxadol and others could be promising as well.

I do not think the research on buprenorphine will come to anything in the end because it is a partial agonist, and does not seem to have the effects of another partial agonist, tramadol, on the serotonin system. The strength of the μ opioid agonism -- it is a Bentley Compound, after all -- leads to a number of potential problems with this use, including precipitated withdrawal, interactions, and difficulty in changing agents for those reasons. The Suboxone recipe is especially problematic as a little bit of the naloxone does get into the bloodstream, not enough to trouble a Suboxone maintenance person, but could especially send someone living with manic depression around the bend. Buprenorphine has a higher μ opioid receptor affinity than naloxone or nalorphine, so an overdose -- on purpose, by accident or from an unforeseen interaction, sensitivity, or more speculative things like inverse tolerance coming out of nowhere -- can be very difficult to treat and a small number of Suboxone and Subutex misadventures have been reported over the years.

I personally recommend acetylmorphone and diacetyldihydromorphine as investigational antidepressants based on the research being done already with other agents. HydroSmack-dian, ParalaudContin and Acetohydrozac or something. They combine a rapid come-up with legs and a hell of a euphoria. Smooth it out over the day, add some stimulation in the morning (oxycodone IR and/or methylphenidate are probably good ideas) and that should be very helpful. My experience with them is for pain and as personally bioassaying acetylmorphone and that it about it; the doctors who take care of the pain and the ones I sought out to do my own due diligence diagnosed me as drearily sane and probably impervious to depression: the distinction is important. People with depression could very well be saner than the rest of us, and that is what gets the ball rolling. Were it not for naturally having a temperament like I am on a moderate dose of dihydromorphine all the time, I might be in that club too for all I know.

Look at the list of interactions, side effects, and problems with things like Prozac, that all antidepressants have serious abstinence syndromes/rebound on cessation, most people have to be tried on several, they can take up to 75 days to start working and what is the improvement? They certainly tried, and good for them, and they even got the idea for the second-generation antidepressants from the mild to moderate euphoria, created at least in part by Selective Serotonin-Norepinephrine-Dopamine Reuptake Inhibitor action, of first-generation antihistamines including chlorphenamine, tripelennamine, orphenadrine, doxylamine, and others. The first-generation antihistamines, the synthetic anticholinergics of the same era, and first-generation antidepressants were made to replace narcotics as antidepressants, and narcotics as well as belladonna* and speed in the case of allergy treatment.

The one thing I will say about the pharmaceutical manufacturers big and small is that they sure love them some antidepressants; there is little or no misdirection or scapegoating there. The newer antidepressant are as a general rule, a bit complicated and legitimately at least semi-expensive to make and the FDA approval process and legal considerations are a true money pit -- but, for example, morphine -- and well, virtually all of the narcotics, are no longer patented and are decades to millions of years old and the manufacturing costs for opium derivatives and semi-synthetics are de minimis and methadone is famously cheap derivative of mundane industrial precursors, just to name one synthetic† . A lot of the opium derivatives, especially the 14-dihydromorphinones, need Column VIII or other transition metal catalysts for most methods of synthesis‡, but by definition those are reusable. And narcotics market and sell themselves, as William S Burroughs and business partners of Friedrich Wilhelm Adam Sertürner so sagely observed.

Depression in its various forms and PTSD infuriate me since they could very well be two things which are truly inflicted on people from outside by others, and quackery seems to be the norm, or at least a spiral of silence has set in amongst the medical profession. The former is, amongst other things I imagine, one of the intermediate term complications of Weltschmerz especially for caring, altruistic, and tuned-in and once lively and idealistic folks. And of course hate, bad policy, greed and warmongering cause the latter (as do other things like waking up under anaesthesia) and depression is extremely common, even as 20 people can have 36 very different experiences with it. I really wish the medical establishment and others could do better by this rather large crowd than they have. This is important.

---
* The narcotic pethidine, on the other hand, was discovered in December 1937 in the search for a pharmacologically cleaner and more manageable hyoscine (scopolamine) and atropine which could be produced synthetically and, ad extremis, not require Germany to import belladonna. Methadone was invented in the same timeframe for the same reasons and was first intensively researched during an opium shortage.
† There are any number of other processes for making tramadol, pethidine, levorphanol, anileridine, piritramide, diampromide, proheptazine, dimenoxadol, dipipanone, propoxyphene, (and as we know, fentanils, benzimidazoles, and thiambutenes as well) and lots of others from industrial solvents, petroleum distillates, coal tar derivatives and other such things -- dextromoramide (not available in the States, of course) is one possible exception needing at least one sort of funky and uncommon precursor.
‡ No synth talk here -- this is straight economics and supply chain management.
 
Last edited:

Nicomorphinist

Bluelighter
Joined
Apr 18, 2019
Messages
1,052
Location
Everywhere
I’ve reached my limit now and don’t feel like I’m getting the help and support I need.

I’ve been plagued with mental health issues for over 10 years and because I didn’t know I had these issues for years I didn’t seek help.. I just thought I was different and that’s how my life will be.

This led to me taking opiates because they were helping me with the depression and anxiety(I didn’t know I was depressed or had anxiety) I have.. so obviously I became addicted to opiates and when I finally realised I was addicted I also realised I could get help for depression and severe anxiety I got put on Dihydrocodeine 240mg twice a day and every type of SSRI they have.

Because my depression and anxiety didn’t get any better I turned back to the opiates and for 4 years now I’ve been struggling.. I did have prescription medication support services but because of work I missed appointments and got discharged and referred to substance misuse.

I’ve been to two assessments with them and been told I’m on a waiting list and near the top a few times because I’ve been calling and checking to see if I got assigned a key worker and got an appointment with their doctor. It’s been 3months and my life has just been spiralling out of control so I’ve been updating them on my situation and when talking to one of their support workers last week I told them how bad things have got and tried to explain everything but she was just one of the most unsympathetic and insincere people I’ve ever talked to and basically called me a life when I said why are people telling me I’m near the top of the waiting list and said you’re not a priority right now...

I’d just like to add that the stereotype of aggressive and violent opiate addicts isn’t true and I’ve never been violent or aggressive to anyone, never raised my voice or argued with anyone and been as polite as I could be to anyone listening to me.


Between all the stuff going on with substance misuse I switched doctors because I need help and wasn’t really getting it at my old doctor plus the receptionists always have a problem with my family and prescriptions go missing so I’d be stuck without medication because I’m the addict so I’m the one who lies to get more medication which is not the case I’ve never lied..
Anyway I switched and the new doctors got told by my old doctors reception that 3 weeks of medication had been printed and I should be okay until x date.. I didn’t receive those prescriptions so i was stuck for 3 weeks without medication which was the start of the problems and relapse.

I’ve told my current doctor what I take and I can’t take the prescribed dose so have been illicitly getting some Zomorph and now because of inconsistencies with my ability to get medication I’ve ended up dependant on 300mg of Zomorph a day and sometimes I can only get 200mg Zomorph so take 400mg per day. Everyone I’ve told just says carry on like that for now and wait until you get in with substance misuse.. I’m crying out for help and I’m not getting anything.

My existence is go to work and smile like everything is normal, get home and spend my life in my bedroom in bed, crying a lot my depression has never been this bad, my anxiety has never been this bad and I get no help or medication for that.

For the past few years I’ve been suicidal but too scared to tell anyone...

To sum it up.. I’m addicted to opiates heavily but my doctor won’t help so I’m on a waiting list for substance misuse. I can’t afford to supply my own medication anymore, I’m suicidal and I don’t feel like I can fight that anymore, I’m depressed and have bad anxiety, I have no social life and spend my life alone in my bedroom. Withdrawal makes all those feelings worse and I can’t deal with that. I know there’s loads of numbers and places to call to talk but no one can do anything about withdrawal.

I’m at the end of my tether with it and I’m going to see my doctor one last time Monday to see if they will help but I doubt it. I need prescribing something stronger than the low amount of DHC I’m on, I need some help with my depression and anxiety but the doctors won’t help with that and the suicidal thoughts will be helped once I get in with substance misuse.

I’m not the type of person to make a big deal out of anything and I’ll let them know I want to kill myself but I’m not going to tell people I’ll do it or ring any numbers and talk to someone.. the anonymity of this website which allows me to make this post anonymously is why I’ve made this post because I’d never do it if someone knew who I was.

It’s supposed to be easy to get help these days... right? Nope I’ve exhausted the only channels that can help.

Sorry for making you read this..

I’ll just be another figure on some statistic somewhere.




EDIT: To be completely clear I’m not saying I’m going to kill myself, I’m just saying I’m struggling with it and I’m not getting help.
I hate to hear this and I certainly sympathise . . . depression really can throw people of all types for a loop and is notorious for both sneaking up on people and for some seemingly coming from nowhere like 5000 kilos of bricks. It seems to get more common every year even though the suffering of everyone living with it is very unique just like many other things.

The antidepressant and anxiolytic feeling you had from the narcotics was real and known to humankind since antiquity and probably prehistory, officially used in medicine until about 65 years ago and there is still some of that even today, and there is research which may bring it back in the future. I do a longer post on that in this thread. The medical use of narcotics for depression in the past has not been satisfactorily replaced, as you no doubt have seen yourself, hence the new search for narcotic antidepressants.

There are laws up to 105 years old that impact what medical doctors like General Practitioners and pain specialists in the States can do for narcotic addicts, but I think training, cultural issues, and the politics of the fake opioid cri$i$ are contributing factors, though what you have described borders on malpractice it seems. Elsewhere, things will probably be better.

One thing you have going for you is that some modes of treatment for the narcotic habitation will also treat the depression. Anything abstinence based in your case will have a very negative outcome based on what you described, and the idea is to get stabilised by Opioid Substitution Therapy and look for a General Practitioner and any other needed specialists depending on what else is going on who will treat the dual or treble diagnosis. To wit:

In theory, the best idea is to get the extended-release morphine and preferably immediate-release as well in a reliable, medically supervised manner -- I would like to plug Mallinckrodt's generic 100 mg morphine sulphate extended-release tablets in particular (Misties, Greys, Blockbusters; they also make 5, 10, 15, 30, 60, and 200s) because they work better, are amenable to being chewed or modified if you need immediate-release morphine along with the extended-release effect to remain at least partially intact and Zomorph's manufacturers are Quilsings in the war on pain patients, also their "abuse resistant" Zomorph put me into withdrawal and a severe angina pectoris incident.

But if the doctors are that much of a problem right now, an intermediate step is needed:

If feasible, methadone maintenance can be very helpful in a case like this and buprenorphine would be better than nothing; The idea is to maintain, not detoxify, and then get a General Practitioner aware of your dual diagnosis of depression and opioid dependence -- especially if it is secondary to a third issue like chronic pain and/or serious GI disorders with pain and hypermotility. If you happen to be in Europe or elsewhere, extended-release morphine, along with hydromorphone., dihydrocodeine, and tramadol a few places, is an alternative to methadone, as is levomethadone, which does not have the QT issue.

As you appear to have discovered, getting medication through clandestine or semi-clandestine resale channels is not a good deal pricewise and can lead to money problems, which create supply problems, which can certainly make one anxious and depressed.

If your methadone is not up to the level you need, look on here and other pages about using some foods, benzodiazepines, antihistamines, anticholinergics, sedative-hypnotics, and muscle relaxants to make it work better.

If they put you on methadone, you should have a cardiologist and/or GP in the loop. Some people can have issues with long QT interval after a long time on it, but they can be dealt with. Best of luck.
 
Last edited:

mal3volent

Moderator: TDS, S&G, TL
Staff member
Joined
Jun 6, 2011
Messages
8,421
This isn't rock bottom, I don't think you know what rock bottom means, I mean you have internet right?
Everyone has a different bottom. Let's try to be supportive and not one up each other.
 

Snowy_Hell

Bluelighter
Joined
Jul 12, 2017
Messages
170
Location
Eastern Europe
I’ve reached my limit now and don’t feel like I’m getting the help and support I need.

I’ve been plagued with mental health issues for over 10 years and because I didn’t know I had these issues for years I didn’t seek help.. I just thought I was different and that’s how my life will be.

This led to me taking opiates because they were helping me with the depression and anxiety(I didn’t know I was depressed or had anxiety) I have.. so obviously I became addicted to opiates and when I finally realised I was addicted I also realised I could get help for depression and severe anxiety I got put on Dihydrocodeine 240mg twice a day and every type of SSRI they have.

Because my depression and anxiety didn’t get any better I turned back to the opiates and for 4 years now I’ve been struggling.. I did have prescription medication support services but because of work I missed appointments and got discharged and referred to substance misuse.

I’ve been to two assessments with them and been told I’m on a waiting list and near the top a few times because I’ve been calling and checking to see if I got assigned a key worker and got an appointment with their doctor. It’s been 3months and my life has just been spiralling out of control so I’ve been updating them on my situation and when talking to one of their support workers last week I told them how bad things have got and tried to explain everything but she was just one of the most unsympathetic and insincere people I’ve ever talked to and basically called me a life when I said why are people telling me I’m near the top of the waiting list and said you’re not a priority right now...

I’d just like to add that the stereotype of aggressive and violent opiate addicts isn’t true and I’ve never been violent or aggressive to anyone, never raised my voice or argued with anyone and been as polite as I could be to anyone listening to me.


Between all the stuff going on with substance misuse I switched doctors because I need help and wasn’t really getting it at my old doctor plus the receptionists always have a problem with my family and prescriptions go missing so I’d be stuck without medication because I’m the addict so I’m the one who lies to get more medication which is not the case I’ve never lied..
Anyway I switched and the new doctors got told by my old doctors reception that 3 weeks of medication had been printed and I should be okay until x date.. I didn’t receive those prescriptions so i was stuck for 3 weeks without medication which was the start of the problems and relapse.

I’ve told my current doctor what I take and I can’t take the prescribed dose so have been illicitly getting some Zomorph and now because of inconsistencies with my ability to get medication I’ve ended up dependant on 300mg of Zomorph a day and sometimes I can only get 200mg Zomorph so take 400mg per day. Everyone I’ve told just says carry on like that for now and wait until you get in with substance misuse.. I’m crying out for help and I’m not getting anything.

My existence is go to work and smile like everything is normal, get home and spend my life in my bedroom in bed, crying a lot my depression has never been this bad, my anxiety has never been this bad and I get no help or medication for that.

For the past few years I’ve been suicidal but too scared to tell anyone...

To sum it up.. I’m addicted to opiates heavily but my doctor won’t help so I’m on a waiting list for substance misuse. I can’t afford to supply my own medication anymore, I’m suicidal and I don’t feel like I can fight that anymore, I’m depressed and have bad anxiety, I have no social life and spend my life alone in my bedroom. Withdrawal makes all those feelings worse and I can’t deal with that. I know there’s loads of numbers and places to call to talk but no one can do anything about withdrawal.

I’m at the end of my tether with it and I’m going to see my doctor one last time Monday to see if they will help but I doubt it. I need prescribing something stronger than the low amount of DHC I’m on, I need some help with my depression and anxiety but the doctors won’t help with that and the suicidal thoughts will be helped once I get in with substance misuse.

I’m not the type of person to make a big deal out of anything and I’ll let them know I want to kill myself but I’m not going to tell people I’ll do it or ring any numbers and talk to someone.. the anonymity of this website which allows me to make this post anonymously is why I’ve made this post because I’d never do it if someone knew who I was.

It’s supposed to be easy to get help these days... right? Nope I’ve exhausted the only channels that can help.

Sorry for making you read this..

I’ll just be another figure on some statistic somewhere.




EDIT: To be completely clear I’m not saying I’m going to kill myself, I’m just saying I’m struggling with it and I’m not getting help.
It's like reading something I'd write. My hope lies in a combination of food supplements and Russian nootropics, namely, the phenotropil, phenylpiracetam, as it re-expresses D2 and D3 in substantia nigra to an appreciable degree. Also, getting some EMDR therapy, the real one with MDMA, not this watered-down CBT-crap.
15299
 
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Nicomorphinist

Bluelighter
Joined
Apr 18, 2019
Messages
1,052
Location
Everywhere
Everyone has a different bottom. Let's try to be supportive and not one up each other.
I agree completely. . . having the other things going on of which the original poster speaks, and having the metabolic hourglass of narcotics over one's head is more than just about anybody can take at some points . . . the only thing worse is to have the metabolic fuse, blasting cap, dynamite and barrel of Anfo of benzodiazepines over one's head . . .
 

GABAlover

Bluelighter
Joined
Mar 6, 2006
Messages
332
Location
Melbourne, Australia
A methadone detox? Start high, slide it down not too slowly?

As for depression, SSRIs are not always effective solo. Try adding some other meds.
 

Nicomorphinist

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How exactly do folks define rock bottom, by the while? What exactly do people do when they have reached such a point? Different points for different matters? I myself have never come close to anything of that nature. I do have a cousin who did get to that point with compulsive gambling and decided to start hooking. I know of another person in the same situation with smack who went into the situation as a lesbian and came out as a bisexual. She says that narcotics improve her personality too.
 
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Benzorider

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Although things with neurotoxic metabolites like pethidine and methadone, and those with receptor-activation profiles which include opioid receptor antagonism and/or high κ opioid receptor activity can be very unhelpful, yes narcotics were used for depression medically and yes, they do work. Opiates, generally morphine, codeine, whole opium, and some dihydromorphine, dihydrocodeine, hydromorphone and diamorphine later, were used for depression all the way up to the approval of the first tricyclic depressants in the 1950s. Narcotics are being researched again for this purpose, starting with oxymorphone in Continental Europe in the late 1990s, and a large number of others including morphine and others discussed below.

Narcotics were also used as anxiolytics and sedatives and as an alternative to the hypnotics then available, which were bromides, chloral derivatives & paraldehyde, barbiturates, belladonna, sulphonal, and alcohol. The understanding of what is commonly called Obsessive Compulsive Disorder these days was not what it is today back in the day, but the above uses and the fact that a quick blast of euphoria, anxiolysis, relief of depression, and any drowsiness could interrupt a cycle of compulsive behaviour just cranking up.

In all likelihood, a big fraction of unsupervised and non- and semi-compliant therapeutic opioid use is self-medication, and now chronic pain patients are being sent to the underground to get their medications because of the DEA/AMA/Correctional officers' unions/yellow journalists/Rehab gangsters and cultists' fake opioid cri$i$.

In countries with less draconian policies and compromise of the medical profession than in the United States, making a choice for a certain narcotic for a pain patient and keeping them on it indefinitely because it helps the depression and/or anxiety enough to allow them to return to a fully productive and happy life is indeed known, and even in the United States, a doctor with such dual-diagnosis patient who knows what her or she is doing, has done a comprehensive history, and works with other physicians for more sets of eyes and political CYA will avoid certain narcotics, prioritise others, and choose adjuncts and potentiators carefully. Oxycodone and tramadol with cyclobenzaprine, trazadone, and/or orphenadrine is one recipe used in such cases, often with dextromethorphan.

Conversely, the first-generation anti-depressants like amitryptiline are excellent narcotic potentiators and are analgesics in the naproxen-diclofenac range all by themselves. I even use an aciclovir+amitryptiline+tetracaine+mepivacaine+lignocaine+benzocaine+procaine+morphine+dexamethasone+ketoprofen cream for shingles.

A lesson we can take with the overlap betwixt narcotics and antidepressants, and also second-generation antidepressants like duloxetine are used as narcotic potentiators, is that analgesia and euphoria are part of the same process, can never be separated, and there will never be non-euphoriant painkillers. Many people get a mood lift from naproxen, ibuprofen, and other Nsaids. Part of that is that when the pain is going or gone, people feel better.

Also my discussions with Opioid Substitution Therapy experts make it clear that for people living with diagnosed and relatively straightforward cases of depression, they also are as choosy with agents as allowed, with morphine, hydromorphone, and DHC preferred where available and tramadol being tried as it is a relatively new OST agent, detoxification is generally frowned upon in favour of maintenance, and cold-turkey withdrawal and accelerated detoxification with clonidine and clonazepam are verboten, at least as far as the doctors themselves are concerned.

Research is now underway on using oxymorphone, butorphanol. hydromorphone, tapentadol, tramadol, morphine, dihydrocodeine, and some others for at least treatment-resistant depression. Most others will work as well. An obvious choice, and one showing that there is neither a linear nor a one-way connexion of antidepressant effect and analgesic potency, is hydrocodone.

The main exceptions are the benzomorphans as a class, most of the 4-phenylpiperidines (ketobemidone may be an exception), some but not all of the morphinans -- but the research on dextromethorphan also being an antidepressant in addition to other things makes me think that the racaemic parent drug, dromoran or racemorphan, which includes dextromethorphan's active metabolite DXO and the powerful narcotic levorphanol would be a very good antidepressant, anxiolytic, sedative and maybe more -- and I would think that the fentanils are potentially unsuitable because the absolute degree of κ opioid activity and perhaps the overall receptor activation profile of fentanyl and others can cause hallucinations and the like. Benzimidazoles are being researched, but many have durations of action under an hour. Members of all of the branches of the open chain opioids, including levomethadone, dipipanone, dextromoramide, dimenoxadol and others could be promising as well.

I do not think the research on buprenorphine will come to anything in the end because it is a partial agonist, and does not seem to have the effects of another partial agonist, tramadol, on the serotonin system. The strength of the μ opioid agonism -- it is a Bentley Compound, after all -- leads to a number of potential problems with this use, including precipitated withdrawal, interactions, and difficulty in changing agents for those reasons. The Suboxone recipe is especially problematic as a little bit of the naloxone does get into the bloodstream, not enough to trouble a Suboxone maintenance person, but could especially send someone living with manic depression around the bend. Buprenorphine has a higher μ opioid receptor affinity than naloxone or nalorphine, so an overdose -- on purpose, by accident or from an unforeseen interaction, sensitivity, or more speculative things like inverse tolerance coming out of nowhere -- can be very difficult to treat and a small number of Suboxone and Subutex misadventures have been reported over the years.

I personally recommend acetylmorphone and diacetyldihydromorphine as investigational antidepressants based on the research being done already with other agents. HydroSmack-dian, ParalaudContin and Acetohydrozac or something. They combine a rapid come-up with legs and a hell of a euphoria. Smooth it out over the day, add some stimulation in the morning (oxycodone IR and/or methylphenidate are probably good ideas) and that should be very helpful. My experience with them is for pain and as personally bioassaying acetylmorphone and that it about it; the doctors who take care of the pain and the ones I sought out to do my own due diligence diagnosed me as drearily sane and probably impervious to depression: the distinction is important. People with depression could very well be saner than the rest of us, and that is what gets the ball rolling. Were it not for naturally having a temperament like I am on a moderate dose of dihydromorphine all the time, I might be in that club too for all I know.

Look at the list of interactions, side effects, and problems with things like Prozac, that all antidepressants have serious abstinence syndromes/rebound on cessation, most people have to be tried on several, they can take up to 75 days to start working and what is the improvement? They certainly tried, and good for them, and they even got the idea for the second-generation antidepressants from the mild to moderate euphoria, created at least in part by Selective Serotonin-Norepinephrine-Dopamine Reuptake Inhibitor action, of first-generation antihistamines including chlorphenamine, tripelennamine, orphenadrine, doxylamine, and others. The first-generation antihistamines, the synthetic anticholinergics of the same era, and first-generation antidepressants were made to replace narcotics as antidepressants, and narcotics as well as belladonna* and speed in the case of allergy treatment.

The one thing I will say about the pharmaceutical manufacturers big and small is that they sure love them some antidepressants; there is little or no misdirection or scapegoating there. The newer antidepressant are as a general rule, a bit complicated and legitimately at least semi-expensive to make and the FDA approval process and legal considerations are a true money pit -- but, for example, morphine -- and well, virtually all of the narcotics, are no longer patented and are decades to millions of years old and the manufacturing costs for opium derivatives and semi-synthetics are de minimis and methadone is famously cheap derivative of mundane industrial precursors, just to name one synthetic† . A lot of the opium derivatives, especially the 14-dihydromorphinones, need Column VIII or other transition metal catalysts for most methods of synthesis‡, but by definition those are reusable. And narcotics market and sell themselves, as William S Burroughs and business partners of Friedrich Wilhelm Adam Sertürner so sagely observed.

Depression in its various forms and PTSD infuriate me since they could very well be two things which are truly inflicted on people from outside by others, and quackery seems to be the norm, or at least a spiral of silence has set in amongst the medical profession. The former is, amongst other things I imagine, one of the intermediate term complications of Weltschmerz especially for caring, altruistic, and tuned-in and once lively and idealistic folks. And of course hate, bad policy, greed and warmongering cause the latter (as do other things like waking up under anaesthesia) and depression is extremely common, even as 20 people can have 36 very different experiences with it. I really wish the medical establishment and others could do better by this rather large crowd than they have. This is important.

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* The narcotic pethidine, on the other hand, was discovered in December 1937 in the search for a pharmacologically cleaner and more manageable hyoscine (scopolamine) and atropine which could be produced synthetically and, ad extremis, not require Germany to import belladonna. Methadone was invented in the same timeframe for the same reasons and was first intensively researched during an opium shortage.
† There are any number of other processes for making tramadol, pethidine, levorphanol, anileridine, piritramide, diampromide, proheptazine, dimenoxadol, dipipanone, propoxyphene, (and as we know, fentanils, benzimidazoles, and thiambutenes as well) and lots of others from industrial solvents, petroleum distillates, coal tar derivatives and other such things -- dextromoramide (not available in the States, of course) is one possible exception needing at least one sort of funky and uncommon precursor.
‡ No synth talk here -- this is straight economics and supply chain management.
Forgot Ketobemidon as a good antidepressiv opiod that doesnt jam ur belly up.
 
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