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RFD: Alcohol overdose - Encouraged by society?

B

BigTrancer

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Request For Discussion:

It seems to me that society in general takes quite a light-hearted (and sometimes humourous) view of alcohol overdose. Young people are almost expected to overdose on alcohol semi-regularly in some cultures. People mention that they're planning to celebrate a special occasion and consume alcohol and the general perception is that they will dose high, and make themselves incapable of various social functions.

Why should this be any different with illegal drugs if they were legalised?

Would regular ecstacy users fall into a pattern of having two or three (or ten) times their normal dose on 'special occasions'? Would a longer term trend of this sort bring about ridiculous tolerances in people that a culture of 'don't talk to me on tuesdays' would be widely embraced? Is it even reasonable to consider society's views on alcohol use and abuse, and then extrapolate these views to a scenario in which currently illegal drugs are widely available?

To my mind it seems that people in general are susceptible to making errors in judgement and succumbing to greed and excess. Perhaps the 'safety margin' for alcohol overdose is such that it is generally non-fatal, so people take a casual stance toward excess. Anyway, I thought I'd bring up a topic that's been on my mind for awhile, and see if anyone else has strong views on the matter.

BigTrancer :)
 
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Originally posted by BigTrancer:
Request For Discussion:
It seems to me that society in general takes quite a light-hearted (and sometimes humourous) view of alcohol overdose.
Perhaps the 'safety margin' for alcohol overdose is such that it is generally non-fatal, so people take a casual stance toward excess.
BigTrancer :)
The disparity between our treatment of alcohol compared with the treatment of drugs like ecstacy has been a big factor in my general loss of faith in people (mainstream society) I would like to think that people question their own prejudices, are able to apply logic and do not act simply out of fear and ignorance. However the evidence does not support this.
A large dose of alcohol will cause headache, impaired short term memory and nausea among other things. This is a substance that is sufficiently toxic that your body will induce vomitting in an attempt to cleanse itself of it.
While Im not suggesting that e is a consequence free drug when was the last time any of you endured a full day of nausea, a pounding headache and that general "i wish i was dead" feeling after a night on e?
I would suggest that "come down" for alcohol is actually worse than for some illicit drugs. It is a strange quirk of our society that it is more acceptable for someone to drink a large quantity of alcohol and be violently ill than it is for someone to indulge in a small dose of a substance that will assist them in having a good time and leave them largely no worse for wear.
Ignorance reigns and we all suffer for it.
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Well BT why does society accept it, well for a lot of reasons. Unlike most products that had a life in the legal world (ie dope, MDxx etc etc) it enjoyed mass acceptance and use therefore impossible for the law makers to even attempt prohibition without being voted out (Gee that happened in the US huh!).
Anyway my point being that if the law makers won't do anything about then its up to the consumer to decide and well quite frankly I for one enjoy it and I'm damn well sure that most do. I don't OD on it much anymore (And whe I say OD I mean purge), not that I have a high telerence its just that I hate hang-overs. I'm sure someone else can put an argument together better than I but I'll stick with 'I love beer'.
 
I fully agree that the discrepancy between drugs and the attitudes towards overdosing that accompanies them is stupid. The difference between one drink and ten is not all that different to the eqivalent in acid dosage say one and three trips, yet society fully accepts the drunk while the tripper is demonised as an acid whore and a criminal. However the illicit drug must follow a linear dosage curve, ecstacy doesn't seem to be as good a comparison as it exhibits a descreet sweet spot around 100 mg where 200 mg is far more stoning and intoxicating and more dangerous. But then with anything psychedelic one should fully research their shit and experiment to such an extent that everybody knows what their limits are and what they are comfortable with.
Nobody heed my words about acid, if you've only ever done one, i don't wanna be responsible for people trippin off their heads and jumping off any metaphorical bridge. Oh yeah BTW i much prefer the comedowns of illicit drugs compared to an alcohol hangover, even crappy speed comedowns. Acid has to be by far the best for the following day, in many occasions i've felt better the next day after acid than the entire week leading up to the session.
 
The mentality of the general uneducated public would pretty much ensure many deaths if XTC and LSD and other such drugs were legalised... But i still find death by choking on your own vomit beacuse you passed out from being too pissed a much more disgusting way to die.
Andromeda :)
 
would pretty much ensure many deaths if XTC and LSD and other such drugs were legalised...
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Just me quibbling but since it is night on impossible to overdose on LSD or MDMA, and death is extraordinarily unlikely from either substance, that's not going to happen. I fact if anything purity levels would be so high that there would be almost zero risk of dying from "XTC", ie taking a pill of dubious, non-MDMA contents.

But I guess you could argue that "other such drugs" includes substances such as GHB, which has very lethal problems.

This is where the problem I think lies; too broadly catergorizing drugs. Some are 'good", some are "bad". It's all just too much like the polarity of the American foreign policy; you are either with us or against us. What is needed is an understanding that each drug is different, and needs to be treated differently. Unfortunately this can prove to be too hard for some people to get their heads around.
 
But I guess you could argue that "other such drugs" includes substances such as GHB, which has very lethal problems.
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OT: That's a possibility too. When trying to consider the ramifications of legalised GHB, I wondered whether it would be perhaps sold low concentration, similar to alcohol. Alcohol is usually sold in concentrations from 0.1%-70% alc/vol range, which allows people to choose and monitor their own dose carefully - some people recognise that they are 'two shot screamers' and limit their intake because they're more sensitive to alcohol, or drink lower concentrations. A 'standard drink' of alcohol delivers about 10 grams of alcohol.

GHB in 12.5% ghb/vol concentration (125 g/L) is quite strong still, even 10 - 20 mL of such a concentration is enough for a 'standard dose' of about 1.3 - 2.5 grams for many people. However, if GHB was sold in something like 0.53% ghb/vol (or about 5.3 g/L) concentration then it would take a 375mL can-sized container of solution to deliver a 'standard dose'... then people could use it more carefully.

BigTrancer :)
 
mmm, a GHB can!

Interesting & very logical approach to GHB!

IMO, either we remove the safe guards on alcohol & make it illegal OR add safe guards such as these & make all drugs legal...
 
awesome topic you've brought up here BT.

i believe in the full legalisation of all recreational drugs, BUT i dont believe society is ready for this at all.

i would say alcohol overdosing is enormously encouraged by society and this is one of the things that needs to be addressed before full legalisation could begin.

alcohol advertising plays a huge part in this i believe - some of the ads for alcohol really disgust me,
e.g. bacardi breezer and the new beer + vodka ads for example,

these ads encourage rampant alcohol abuse, and this view is entirely accepted by society, and promoted by most walks of life.
most young people view getting hell pissed as routine and this is encouraged in many ways.

a good start in this path would be banning alcohol advertising and likewise for all drugs, its totaly irresponsible to promote such dangerous behaviour. im all for alchohol and drugs but promoting them is wrong i believe. whether its pills or beer, i think people should be educated about them, and the choice left to them, definetely not promoted or encouraged.

i think if we start with education and slowly work our way up from there its possible.

after banning alcohol advertising, and legalizing pot firstly, it would be easier to treat the two on the same footing. as drugs that must be carefully used.

i think drug education classes in school would be great (although highly unlikely at this pt. in time i have high hopes)

i think its UNreasonable to take the current societal behaviour with alcohol and extrapolate it to illegal drugs, because i would hope for a large shift in public perception and behaviour before the gates are opened. BUT you will always have the people who will lose control or damage themselves and possibly other people in the process, BUT this already happens anyway.

if we even got started on the process of drug legalisation a lot more research could be done, and we could start to know what they actually do and then make wise decisions with respect to their use. similar to what happened with tobacoo. although a lot of people still smoke that is their decision and if they choose to ignores all the warnings then we should let them be i believe. most people dont smoke.

even if drugs were legally available today, i wouldn't take them that much more than i do know, which is not that often. and i suspect this would be the case with most people.
its like alcohol, its available but we dont get pissed every night because that would affect our life, our work, our relationships and all other facets of our life, most people have the foresight to see and understand this and i think it would be exactly the same story with drugs.


ive also had ideas similar to yours BT with g but also with pills and other chemicals, maybe they could possibly put into pills some chemical in minute doses which after 3 or 4 pills makes you feel quite sick, not fatally so, and not permanently damaging, but enough to discourage people from being stupid.
 
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Its simple really, every body escapes/lets go/mucks around in one way or another. For some people its reading or watching movies, and for others its through alcohol or drugs. Alcohol is more widely accepted because its legal, because everybody has grown up with it, because its the norm, because every body drinks.

Illicit drugs are classified by non-educated people as dangerous (they can be dangerous, but lets face it - isn't there some remote chance anything in life you may do could be dangerous?) and unknown. They're not accepted by the public because most prevailent people of power (politicans basically) dont accept them.

Its all a social stigma. stereotypes and stigmas are very powerful and take a very, very long time to die out. We've got a long time coming!
 
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Great post BT

I just gotta say that in Australian society in particular alcohol overdose is not only encouraged but a lot of the time expected for young people on special occassions. Dare I say that some illicit drug users, especially people who do pills are slightly more responsible when it comes to getting "too fucked up". I dunno, just my opinion.
 
I just gotta say that in Australian society in particular alcohol overdose is not only encouraged but a lot of the time expected for young people on special occassions. Dare I say that some illicit drug users, especially people who do pills are slightly more responsible when it comes to getting "too fucked up". I dunno, just my opinion.
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I totally agree with you on this one. last year i would drink heavily 3-4 times a week. i fucked my memory up something chronic. now as i've been taking more pills say once a week/fortnightly for the last 6 months or so my attitude towards alcohol abuse has plumitted. now i drink every now and then, i still go hard but i don't make a fuck-stick out of myself.
one example of this is, on the weekend i went out with a bunch of friends and of course, majority rules, we ended up at a bar which was dominated by intoxicated patrons. me and a few of my other mates were on pills and we just watched in amusement as these people put themselves through some stupid assed shit, thinking they were being perfectly fine. i see it over and over whenever i go out and see drunk people....was i really like that???? sheesh!
although a good drinking session is in order when the time is right, i just think seeing drunk people through illicit substance eyes is an experiance everyone should have.
i find it's kind of like a mushroom downer...you feel that bit more enlightened......
cheers to all!
8( (roof is spinning)
 
In many respects I totally agree with what many of you are saying on this topic. Alcohol is so socially acceptable that its often seen as compleltly alright to go out, get drunk, make an ass out of yourself. Everyone having a good old laugh when someone at work is really hung over etc.

BUT in regards to:

Why should this be any different with illegal drugs if they were legalised

I think its dangerous territory to start turning around and then saying 'well why cant peoples attitude towards drugs relax somewhat'. I certainly dont agree with the alcohol culture, especially when you get morons pissed as carrying on about how disgracefull drug users are when they themselves are carrying on like the most disgusting bit of pond scum imaginable. I recall sitting in the foyer of an apartment block waiting for a friend when a bunch of pissed blokes, all wrecked, all loud, all abnoxious stumpled past, looked at us in our rave gear and declared "go get your smack down the road". What a comic.

Of course thats pretty hypocritical, but dont we to run the very same risk by not recognizing that when your using drugs you really are playing with something very serious. I
 
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^ That's kinda my point, that people are encouraged by their peers to abuse the few legal drugs that we do have... and that perhaps this issue above all needs addressing before drugs can be legalised.

BigTrancer :)
 
i agree it has to be addressed b4 full legalization of drugs could proceed.

i think though marijuanna would b able to be introduced without many damaging ramifications.

drugs like speed and cocaine would b different however.
 
One of my best mates younger brothers died from alcohol poisoning on NYE '99 - '00. He was 17 and did not choke on vomit or have an accident, it was pure and simple poisoning. This really hit home, showed me and my other binge drinking mates how dangerous alcohol really is. I've still been dinge drinking a lot since I started dropping pills about one year ago. I've realised how not fun drinking to that extent is. I still drink regularly but rarely do I get totally smashed. I have learned to enjoy the subtleties of alcohol.

When I see other people using/abusing ANY substance in huge/excessive amounts I feel uncomfortable and disappointed. In fact there are some clubs (while I might like the music) that I will not go to for this reason.

And as Surrealthoughts said; advertising for alcohol is appalling. The new Carlton Cold "shots" beer + vodka banner on the sides of trams has slogans to the effect of: "Have you ever told your best friends that you love them?" and other drunkenness encouraging phrases

Hopefully we can all make a difference, places like this board are a start.

cheers
 
What about if drugs get legalized, you rock up to mates 21st, and instead of free beer, the parents place a jar of pills, or a big mound of coke 'Tony Montana' style for all to use. Alcohol by definition a drug, albeit a legal one, it alters the normal function of the body, just like coke, E, G, acid. Why is socially accepted for parents to expect their children to come home staggering drunk, throwing up after their first nite out clubbing after turning 18, but have they come home peaking off their tits is frowned upon
 
I personally think drug abuse is substance dependant.
I can quite happily get my self in a right state on alcohol
where as MD I get to a point I know I'm not gonna get anything else.
I don't think making drugs legal is going to change the ratio of users who control their intake to users who take whats there.
For instance most if not all of my stoner mates will happily sit in a small enclosed area and pass the bong around and cheer each other on for getting more and more ripped for smoking the biggest tightest packed cone.
In my circle I've only see this with one other drug that is alcohol. However drug usage in my circle of friends is usually limited to Alcohol, pot, MD and speed.

I'm all for legalising drugs I also have no doubt it is going to bring out new over users. Overall I doubt it'll be like alcohol where the goal is to get as useless as possible without throwing up, but some drugs will carry with them the intention of getting as wasted as possible on a frequent basis.
 
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