Opioids Reduction of tolerance to Buprenorphine with low strength full agonists and comf meds

[THE_REAL_OBLIVION]

Hi,

First, I know one of you hear once linked me to a picture of how Bupe doses stack on top of each other. I'm in the slow crawling process of stopping bupe, especially since I believe from some science-based literature that it shouldn't be used at doses like 8mg for more than 3 months, a 3 month detox drug it should be, but I was already in trouble from being a year on methadone before for a year, made me gain 100 pounds, which I only lost 20 4 years later, despite my best efforts, but buprenorphine is like methadone when it comes to hormones, take it everyday in doses high enough, your system will not remain normal and modification/damage to mu opiate receptor that could be permanent.

I have some doses that contain 100mg codeine, 250mg meprobamate, 5mg valium, 25mg cyclizine and some bisacodyl (something I sometimes get a small script for when I have been neglecting my "regularity", docusate sodium 200mg twice a day isn't enough sometimes. These pills would have worked much better than anything else back when I was desperate to quit IV'ing dilaudid, but even the doctors say the "ministry doctors", the kind of doctors who work at the ministry of health to set standards and say what is allowed or not in the province, they rarely ever have their own practice and likely never will and we have to choose options bureaucrats give us. Had I obtained a 100 of these like now then, I wouldn't be fighting off bupe, I would have tapered away and it would have been rather easy.

I also have a good handful of capsules made in a compound pharmacy with 15mg hydrocodone.

Basically I want to know when it will be worth it to scarf down at least say 30mg hydrocodone with a couple of the codeine++++ ones and actually feel it. I can't wait forever, they almost never piss test me anymore since over 2 years at the clinic because I've proven reliable, even once I tested positive and they were aware I was very ill with bronchitis and in the same building the ORT clinic is in, I was, cos it's in the local ER, being given Dilaudid HP 10mg/ml shots and only feeling like I could stop breathing from the overload until my ORT doc came to see me and asked "Did you tell them you're on Suboxone?" I say yes. then she turns around angrily at the ER doctor and the head nurse saying, Abstral 200ug qid *mumble mumble mumble*. They were too dumb not to know only Abstrals (fentanyl sublingual pills) would do the work, or fentapops for me. That was a terribly harsh hospital stay since they couldn't just give me antibiotics, I had no signs of infection, I was actually given tamiflu and that helped, the usual codeine or hydrocodone syrups would have been useless, even the last ditch (used orally) hydromorphone syrup was not stopping me from almost coughing my lungs out.

Anyway, I'm blessed right now, I have a lot of both of these from somewhere far from here and my next ORT appointment is in a month. I'd like not to take any bupe and when I have my ORT appointment, tell them point blank, reduce me from 8mg to 4mg, I won't ask to a complete detox I would need to stay as inpatient as it would be horrendous at 8mg a day. I also have an opportunity, although not available as prescription here, the commonly used for pain Temgesic with 0.2mg bupe, that would help big time once if maybe I have to start taking the 4mg at all.

Any wise words for me? I have a feeling I will have to let myself fall in withdrawal for these to be of any use.

 

[THE_REAL_OBLIVION]

Surprised I'm not getting anything here, am I battling with windmills attempting this? Will I get myself sick if I take 300mg codeine or 30-45mg hydrocodone while I still have bupe in my blood?

 

[Jekyl Anhydride]

IIRC once you drop below 2mg/day receptors become available for other opioids. The less bupe the better of course but all your risking is a diminished effect of the short acting opioids. You can't go into precipitated w/d's once bupe is in your system and you switch to short acting full agonists. Only the other way around will you get into trouble. It def wouldn't hurt to "test the waters" with one of those hydrocodones. Even using the ones with the 0.2 mg of bupe shouldn't have the power to displace the full agonists unless you took a handfull of 0.2's.

 

[THE_REAL_OBLIVION]

Thanks for your reply. I do not have .2mg Temgesics yet, and it's quite strange how we don't have it in north america, all we got when it comes to bupe for pain is BuTrans patches with a maximum dose of 20ug an hour and they last 24 hours.

I took 3 100mg codeine/150mg meprobamate/5mg valium/25mg cyclizine/bisacodyl 5mg and I kinda felt uncomfortable later on, I didn't touch the Hydrocodone 15mg capsules yet, it would be a shame to waste these, but to me they're a sign of going full circle, I've gone from 12mg suboxone to 8mg in a year, its so difficult to get off of in comparison to methadone when I did the switch because of the unacceptable side effects methadone were giving me. Thankfully the valium, meprobamate and cyclizine countered a lot of possible bad feels.

So I just subbed 2mg, a quarter of an 8mg pill, I will do this until my unfortunately, its-the-canadian way, you can't get 30 day supplies of suboxone except in Ontario, health being a provincial matter...in mine, I gotta go that one day of the week take a supervised dose (thankfully they don't have us stay and just fidget around until it's all melted, now when they see that your dose is under your tongue and in a paste-like state, we can leave with our takehomes). I'm definitely dedicated, and I'm glad I've only tried the codeine/mep/diaz/cyclizine combo gelcaps. So I will be taking 2mg a day until I have nothing left, when I go take my takehomes and put those pills in my mouth, I will likely spit them out once I get back in my car outside the window, because I'll have to take 8mg then.

So curiosity having been leading me to a letdown, other than the nice effects of meprobamate and valium, unfortunately I could feel the battle going on in my brain and thankfully it was just 200mg of codeine at once and 100mg 3 hours later (along with everything else in there). But now that I subbed a 2mg quarter, I feel "normal" again, which I hate, I don't want to need bupe to be normal, been reading the story of a doctor who was himself an opiate addict and how he says most Suboxone doctors don't know anything about it, an 8 hour online course, what a joke, and they know even less about how to get people off it, the best I could do without feeling awful was go from 12 to 10, and that was a bit difficult, then I was on 8 a day, 10 the other, 8 one day, 10 the other and that lasted a good 6 months before I could stay on just 8mg. And now I'm getting sick of it big time, I'll give the link to the doctor's story and how he detoxes people from suboxone/subutex (we were promised subutex a decade ago up here but nope, Rickett whatever forced Health Canada's hand only to approve Suboxone. Now we got generic suboxone at least, but they don't stray much far away from our formulation here : extremely acidic citron and lime extracts, natural and artificial, which causes a lot of cavities and I don't see Zubsolv or Bunavail showing up in the near to medium future.

So yeah, I got about 300 capsules I have to ignore that 4 years ago would have saved my ass from having to IV Dilaudid, i couldn't find anything that worked well orally, of course it was the summer when Oxycontin was removed, but I couldn't source OxyIR's either, and those never disappeared. OxyNeo came out and about a month later the patent on Oxycontin died and we got a bunch of companies making generic oxycontin as Oxycodone-CR just like the old stuff, but I got the feeling that if I was to have as many Oxycodone-CR's 80's as I have of these 2 meds combined, it wouldn't achieve much. So I'm gonna do a rapid taper down to 2mg a day and sometime next week I should be able to get something out of these 36 hours later.

 

[THE_REAL_OBLIVION]

Well it was mildly successful, it would have worked better if it wasn't so expensive and how I'm not ordering anything outside RC's for a good while. I had, thank god, the lamest thing seized, well one part out of 2, but now that place must be flagged or temporarily flagged, I had ordered some Stopaynes, something common in Eastern Europe, South Africa and last time I checked New Zealand. They're 325mg tylenol, 8mg codeine, 150mg meprobamate, 32mg caffeine, I got them for the meprobamate, it's not like 8mg of codeine would do anything to me, or anyone really. Lucky it was the maximum dose allowed in non prescription generic T1's, 222's, Mersyndol etc amount of codeine, but I didn't like it when I never received the other 50...they're like the less stealthy meds with something worth it (the meprobamate) in them one can order from an online pharmacy. Didn't like to have to sign a registered letter from the triage centre saying they seized that other 50 Stopaynes that I even forgot (boy was I loaded on exotic benzos then) a couple months ago after I got those 15mg pure Hydrocodone capsules and the 100mg codeine/250mg meprobamate/25mg cyclizine/5mg valium/5mg bisacodyl (anti-constipation med), lucky THOSE didn't get seized. The letter told me although the amount of codeine was fine, that I couldn't import anything with it, same as for the meprobamate, I also didn't like that it got seized through regular mail....that never happened to me in 18 years of buying psychoactives online. They don't have the manpower for regular mail to mess with you, but it's really ridiculous when I remember some RC store in the UK which had really bad packaging, I mean one time I remember buying just 30 or so Flubromazepam 8mg pellets with a bottle of e-liquid 12mg nicotine in it that they gave me as a free gift. Well, the packaging was way too small, it's a wonder their rather long in shape bottle of vaping liquid didn't pierce the standard brown carton letter, sent by express tracked & signed 3 years ago (unrelated, we didn't have any rc benzo banned in Canada...except for Flubromazepam somehow, without fanfare because I would have known about it and not ordered any again, where I did have 2 packages of low amounts (no risk) of flubromazepam 8mg green pellets, unlike most people, I find that Sternbach benzo rather amazing, despite the long wait before effects start, akin to clonazepam...it's like a heavier valium that lasts LONG once it kicks in, but it doesn't mess you up with a morning hangover feeling, at least not for me, 8-12mg of flubromazepam was great but I won't risk losing money and getting a letter, which the first 2 out of 3 seizures I had happen in my life through express shipping, even once with some kind of decoy).

Anyway, I've changed sources for the clonazolam I use daily since 3 years, the original inventors for that one are out of business forever which is sad, they were really stand up people and not the kind of store with flashy colours and tons of proprietary blends of psychoactives...I was given synthacaine, a lot, once, but I asked and they told me since I was a good customer "it's mainly MPA with 3,4-CTMP and lidocaine"...yeah gotta have that numbing effect...Ugh, the UK vendors shot themselves in the foot and those proprietary blend mixes of powders is what caused them to go down imo.

So if it was less expensive and I wasn't paranoid about mail right now, maybe I could have pulled it, I did manage to get to just 8mg a day of Suboxone, instead of the 8-10-8-10 thing I have to do since we do not have Suboxone strips like in the US where a prescription of 9mg could be made. We don't even have Zubsolv or Bunavail in the pipelines, I called Health Canada and I asked them if there was any products containing Buprenorphine they are reviewing that is different from Suboxone...or BuTrans patches....nope, I asked about 4-5 other unrelated products except for an extended release tramadol only product, we already have one Zytram XL, but I wanted to see if what I expected...the company making the Zytram XL likely bribing Health Canada not to have that med released here, it's in the US, the one extended-release Tramadol product you have, it was the same thing and HC refused it, they sent me the documentation regarding it (I seriously don't remember the name of the product right now though, it was half a year ago, it starts with R I think). They had the advantage of better bioavailability than the Zytram XL I think pretty much, whatever, if you ask a doctor for a script of Tramacets for a stubbed toe they will throw it at you no questions asked, kinda like they used to with Empracets (30mg/300mg codeine), which are still easy to get if you really deserve something, Tramacet is almost never prescribed, they'll script 1-2-4mg dilaudid and 10-15mg morphine IR pills if they have to go a step up.

So, I found my solution, I'll let the mail people know I got the message and only order Etizolam powder inside my own country for now, and continue buying a lot of music, records and CD's when the vinyl isn't worth the price hike, I remember in the 90's, I was one of those rare person who actually always kept a turntable on his sound system, I got a brand new one, but all through the 90's that Technics my dad gave me...and the vinyls were always much cheaper then, sure it was all mail order from labels/distro catalogues, I laugh when I see that one rare Rancid 7" I have that sells for 25-30 dollars on discogs/ebay nowadays. I paid 3 USD for it with paperboy money after I bought an Inside Out record (the band Zach de la Rocha was in before RATM, hardcore punk, best song is Burning Fight, effin classic) and inside the CD-EP I see there's this folded catalogue with a tiny font and a huge catalogue, even for releases not on their label, I guess they were a distro too. But now, shipping fees make having an LP sent to you, even if the album is brand new, it'll cost a lot, most often.

As I was saying before I got sidetracked, I found a solution for my issue, I can obtain Temgesics 0,2mg buprenorphine tablets, it's not that cheap, but I have to get off the bupe, and that will come as a huge tool because Suboxone is so bad in Canada, even the tablets are worse than anywhere else, I'm sure the American orange Suboxones did not contain so much lime and lemon extracts (to discourage people who figured out the naloxone does nothing...they rather burn you from the inside if you dare IV them). Strange because Canadian law was what made it illegal to add Naloxone to Talwin here, our Talwin is untainted because it was illegal to place a product inside another to cause harm even if there was abuse. I think they made an exception for the Suboxone we got here, despite being promised Subutex for 7 years, Rickett forced HC's hand and we never had a product with only bupe, other than the weak weak weak BuTrans patches, which are for moderate chronic pain with chronic fatigue syndrome. Hell, my mom is on it now, so that the last 7 years she has to work that rather well paying because she's a functionary...but it's an atypical functionary job, she ain't getting hand and elbow pain from writing so much, it's a rather physical and mental job, and I know she's always in pain after her long shifts and I told her (she hates taking pills, like almost all french canadians, there's a stigma on even taking prescription strength Advil (600mg) if they see a pharmacy bottle they'll likely associate it with strong stuff even if it's the same old ibuprofen, the difference is if prescribed, you don't pay for it, past your co-pay). She ended up being convinced by me to ask her doctor, just for info about BuTrans patches and yep, she's on one now and thanking me saying "I don't get home totally drained of all energy after a 9 hour shift and I don't hurt as much", that with diclofenac cream and she's fine, also had to tell her that we have something better than ibuprofen for headaches, just ask the pharmacist for Aleve or the off-brand Aleve and she never did. This sort of mentality kind of explains why there is no heroin here despite the population size.

Wish me luck for when I actually get those Temgesics, I'm waiting for bitcoin to drop in value a bit...