Recovery Without Meetings

[RV Mystery Journey]

There is this widespread view in the recovery world that going to recovery meetings is a crucial part of recovering.

Do you feel that meetings will make your recovery? Not attending may break it?

I have seen some addiction specialists say they aren't what makes recovery happen alone but they are a good strategy if not vital. Some people I have heard say they never saw anyone recover without meetings LOL sounds biased honestly. I think research shows most people who quit do so of their own accord.

Anyways the program I am currently involved with says in the readings that open the meetings recovery is an individual effort and the meeting should not replace outside efforts haha!

Post Revision:

I understand bias is part of what makes us human.

I mean how this person said it, and she was a stuck-up jerk chairperson or president even of a therapeutic living community I didn't graduate from because I didn't plan on doing 12 Steps meetings after completing a full stay at insane pay, has me thinking now how limited her view was when she said that to me. I get her bias though from where she was sitting. It is just you can't tell people meetings are what gets them clean and expect in reality to see the majority get clean going to them I feel.

What do I know though? My typing articulation isn't entirely correct I get that nor am I unbiased.

I guess I will report back in time with my own experience.

I do know these meetings I attend keep me focused on how serious an issue using certains substances has been and will continue to be if I don't change. They also encourage me to listen to other perspectives on addiction and are very wholesome in general. I don't believe they are a make or break type deal by any means it is just where I currently am in life they make more sense to attend than not.

 

[Vastness]

Debating if I have the right to an opinion here but I guess I will share my 2c since I have a very limited experience of AA/NA type stuff, honestly I've never really identified as an addict which I guess some people might say is a problem, but a friend of mine started getting heavily involved in the AA stuff and honestly it sounded kinda interesting, he seemed at first to be in great spirits and generally speaking the idea of like a meeting place for adults who've chosen to abstain from substances, who for the most part are very friendly and welcoming, was something that interested me. I do occasionally have self control failures with substances for sure, who doesn't and I'm always interested in different methods for regulating usage. I'm so interested in everything around substances also that I couldn't not be curious about the other side of the coin, so to speak. It's also occurred to me on occasion that I could do with some sober friends.

My experience, on the whole, was good, I only went to a couple of meetings honestly, but everyone was very welcoming on the whole and I kept vaguely in touch with some people I met there. However I did have several problems with the whole thing which stopped me going back. For a start, I just cannot get behind the absolutist view of addiction and substance use, such that you're either "in recovery" or you're "sick", as well as the somewhat mandatory requirement to introduce yourself as an addict in some meetings even if you don't really believe it. Unfortunately even though it might pretend to be otherwise, my experience with it was that it was very cultish, although I won't go as far as to say it's an actual cult. But the structure of the meetings I went to as well as the whole 12 step ethos as I see it can be somewhat psychologically manipulative. It can be a powerful experience and I left a few meetings feeling genuinely moved but a little time away and self-analysis lead me to think I had just been swept up in the overall rapturous mood. I was generally honest that I wasn't looking for a sponsor and was just curious, but generally most of the time after a while I'd find people trying to turn the conversation around to how I should consider getting a sponsor, and that, maybe, I just don't know what's good for me really. People often say you need to go to a few meetings to really get it, and to me this makes perfect sense because the more often you go the more you'll get swept up by the pseudo-religious fervour of the general philosophy.

I have some problems, personally, with the sponsorship system too, it seems that there is basically no vetting or requirements to sponsor someone except that you've been (allegedly) abstinent from whatever substances you had a problem with for a while. My friend who I mentioned supposedly started sponsoring people very quickly and this disturbed me too because honestly I did not believe him to be qualified - although he has always enjoyed telling people how they should live their lives, and now he can do this with a whole community of people behind him telling him that what he's doing is morally right and just.

I've read a fair bit about it before and since and I've heard there's a wide range of people that attend these things and some surely have more moderate opinions, but I've heard many times it suggested that you shouldn't think too much because "thinking is what got you in trouble in the first place" which really bothered me too. Some people consider the Big Book to be like the bible. I read it and it reads pretty much like you'd expect a self help book written over 50 years ago to read.

You will also hear a lot that these programs are "scientifically proven" to be the most effective method to quit problematic substance use - which is weird because AA/NA 12-step organisations themselves have never actually pushed the science angle too hard and also do not collect any kinds of statistics that could be used to make these claims. The evidence on the whole suggests that these programs are not nearly as effective as many of their advocates claim, and plenty of people do recover without them using other methods, some remain abstinent forever and some eventually manage to go back to a more moderate and controlled methods of substance use.

I feel this post is becoming very critical although this was not originally my intention - these programs do work very well for some people - just not everyone. And there are other groups, although less common, that do not use the 12 step philosophy but are still aimed at getting a more sensible control over problematic substance usage in a group setting. I would suggest if you are struggling with addiction of some kind - for sure, try it - it is worth a try - but for me, many aspects of it which struck me as somewhat dishonest, manipulative, and cult-like left a sour taste. If you really need it and can look past these annoyances, though, give it a try because again everyone could probably use some sober friends if you don't have any and you might be lucky and connect with some of the less fundamentalist members.

 

[THECATINTHEHAT]

I think that maintaining an active connection to other people in recovery is an important part of the process, and drug support groups are a very good way of doing that. I dont feel that I cant obtain recovery without meetings of a particular kind, but I do feel that it is hard without having that connection to other recovering addicts.

My personal view is that if you rely on these meetings to be able to maintain your recovery then that is probably not ideal or particularly healthy, but if it keeps you clean then so be it. I definitely Italy do not believe that 12 step groups are necessary, or in fact that they are any more effective than any other recovery framework.

 

[nuttynutskin]

I think meetings can help some people, but ultimately it's up to the person to remain sober or not. I hate how a lot of AA member's answer to everything is MORE MEETINGS. I'm currently 4 1/2 months sober from alcohol and I've never attended any meetings or got professional help and probably never will for a few reasons. The main one being that I would rather be doing something else with my time, and secondly that I suffer from social anxiety/agoraphobia issues, and those would definitely be exacerbated in a meeting setting.

 

[ChemicallyEnhanced]

I've only ever done it that way I DGAF about other people's problems, especially people I've never met. Plus I think even the majority of BLers are sick to death of "my story". The only way I'm gonna talk to a bunch of strangers about my tragic life story is if I'mma be on Intervention.
I, too, have social anxiety and agoraphobia (well, I "don't" because I'm always on tranqulizers). All meetings and medical appointments are by telephone only here anyway due to Corona.

 

[tired of crap]

Alcohol was my DOC and I quit last year without attending any meetings.
Now it took multiple attempts over many years to get this far (15 mos)... and Idk if meetings would have helped the process but to me meetings arent crucial.

Now as others have mentioned have a support group and remaining connectedcan be a crucial aspect to recovery but meetings arent the only way to achieve this.

 

[G_Chem]

AA/NA is a joke.

My mother and step dad are sponsors with supposedly decades of clean time. They’re like the shining jewels of AA and people strive to be just like them. Yea these same people do any drug they get their hands on because it’s “not alcohol” then go to meetings and straight up lie to everyone there.

I grew up around the program, I tried it myself multiple times, it just doesn’t work. If it does, it’s temporary.

You have to find it in yourself to get clean.

Also many rehab facilities are major scams that only want your money and care little to give you actual help. Only the MOST expensive on occasion might be a halfway decent place to get clean but I’ve gone to ones that costs 20-30g a month and were hell holes.

In the end I was saved when I finally was able to look past the facade and realize we all geT high, it’s just what drugs you use and how often you use them that makes all the difference.

-GC

 

[somnilicious]

Debating if I have the right to an opinion here but I guess I will share my 2c since I have a very limited experience of AA/NA type stuff, honestly I've never really identified as an addict which I guess some people might say is a problem, but a friend of mine started getting heavily involved in the AA stuff and honestly it sounded kinda interesting, he seemed at first to be in great spirits and generally speaking the idea of like a meeting place for adults who've chosen to abstain from substances, who for the most part are very friendly and welcoming, was something that interested me. I do occasionally have self control failures with substances for sure, who doesn't and I'm always interested in different methods for regulating usage. I'm so interested in everything around substances also that I couldn't not be curious about the other side of the coin, so to speak. It's also occurred to me on occasion that I could do with some sober friends.

My experience, on the whole, was good, I only went to a couple of meetings honestly, but everyone was very welcoming on the whole and I kept vaguely in touch with some people I met there. However I did have several problems with the whole thing which stopped me going back. For a start, I just cannot get behind the absolutist view of addiction and substance use, such that you're either "in recovery" or you're "sick", as well as the somewhat mandatory requirement to introduce yourself as an addict in some meetings even if you don't really believe it. Unfortunately even though it might pretend to be otherwise, my experience with it was that it was very cultish, although I won't go as far as to say it's an actual cult. But the structure of the meetings I went to as well as the whole 12 step ethos as I see it can be somewhat psychologically manipulative. It can be a powerful experience and I left a few meetings feeling genuinely moved but a little time away and self-analysis lead me to think I had just been swept up in the overall rapturous mood. I was generally honest that I wasn't looking for a sponsor and was just curious, but generally most of the time after a while I'd find people trying to turn the conversation around to how I should consider getting a sponsor, and that, maybe, I just don't know what's good for me really. People often say you need to go to a few meetings to really get it, and to me this makes perfect sense because the more often you go the more you'll get swept up by the pseudo-religious fervour of the general philosophy.

I have some problems, personally, with the sponsorship system too, it seems that there is basically no vetting or requirements to sponsor someone except that you've been (allegedly) abstinent from whatever substances you had a problem with for a while. My friend who I mentioned supposedly started sponsoring people very quickly and this disturbed me too because honestly I did not believe him to be qualified - although he has always enjoyed telling people how they should live their lives, and now he can do this with a whole community of people behind him telling him that what he's doing is morally right and just.

I've read a fair bit about it before and since and I've heard there's a wide range of people that attend these things and some surely have more moderate opinions, but I've heard many times it suggested that you shouldn't think too much because "thinking is what got you in trouble in the first place" which really bothered me too. Some people consider the Big Book to be like the bible. I read it and it reads pretty much like you'd expect a self help book written over 50 years ago to read.

You will also hear a lot that these programs are "scientifically proven" to be the most effective method to quit problematic substance use - which is weird because AA/NA 12-step organisations themselves have never actually pushed the science angle too hard and also do not collect any kinds of statistics that could be used to make these claims. The evidence on the whole suggests that these programs are not nearly as effective as many of their advocates claim, and plenty of people do recover without them using other methods, some remain abstinent forever and some eventually manage to go back to a more moderate and controlled methods of substance use.

I feel this post is becoming very critical although this was not originally my intention - these programs do work very well for some people - just not everyone. And there are other groups, although less common, that do not use the 12 step philosophy but are still aimed at getting a more sensible control over problematic substance usage in a group setting. I would suggest if you are struggling with addiction of some kind - for sure, try it - it is worth a try - but for me, many aspects of it which struck me as somewhat dishonest, manipulative, and cult-like left a sour taste. If you really need it and can look past these annoyances, though, give it a try because again everyone could probably use some sober friends if you don't have any and you might be lucky and connect with some of the less fundamentalist members.

I have spent years in the program and was even at halfway houses for extended periods, where I was totally absorbed in the lifestyle and my experience and opinion is very close to your critique. It definitely has its positives and as a whole it can be helpful but there were just too many dogmas, bad practices and cringe factors for me to continue whole heartedly, which would totally negate the effectiveness because the belief that the prescription is working is just as big of a part of its ability to aid in recovery as the reintegration into socialization and self help components. I just cant continue or carry a message that I don't have full faith in.

 

[nznity]

AA/NA is a joke.

My mother and step dad are sponsors with supposedly decades of clean time. They’re like the shining jewels of AA and people strive to be just like them. Yea these same people do any drug they get their hands on because it’s “not alcohol” then go to meetings and straight up lie to everyone there.

I grew up around the program, I tried it myself multiple times, it just doesn’t work. If it does, it’s temporary.

You have to find it in yourself to get clean.

Also many rehab facilities are major scams that only want your money and care little to give you actual help. Only the MOST expensive on occasion might be a halfway decent place to get clean but I’ve gone to ones that costs 20-30g a month and were hell holes.

In the end I was saved when I finally was able to look past the facade and realize we all geT high, it’s just what drugs you use and how often you use them that makes all the difference.

-GC

This Is what i needed to read, i always thought only certain drugs are the problem AND it's true. Complete abstinence Is bullcrap. We want to get high so why shouldnt we?

 

[Jabberwocky]

We want to get high so why shouldnt we?

because some people are not able to use any substances at all without them having a severely negative impact on their life. if you can get high on certain drugs without it affecting your recovery too badly,

i think vastness's critique is very fair.

there are some really evangelical people who throw themselves in whole heartedly and i think they can sometimes cause reputation problems by overstating the ability of their chosen program and basically only having one tool at their disposal. nearly 6 months into recovery my ptsd started absolutely killing me, i was crying at meetings every night for ages and people just kept telling me to do different things related to the program. none of them suggested that for serious mental health problems i might need help outside of the program, and i got worse and worse cos i was desperately trying everything these people were suggesting and wasn't getting any better. things only improved when i went to a dr and started getting ptsd-specific help. looking back its obvious that an addiction program can't help with other mental illnesses, but because everyone in the fellowship was blindly telling me to improve bits in my program, it took me a long time to work that out and i suffered unecessarily for it.

that said, and i do have some other issues of NA too, but I do think meetings are really useful. they are not the only way to recover, and don't work for everyone. the social aspect helps, especially being able to speak to people who understand. i find the format of being able to speak without interruption useful for working things out myself. i also found the 90 in 90 to be helpful when i got out of rehab. it gave me structure and was a huge commitment, i don't think its anything special about the meetings that helps, but i think making a significant time commitment e very single day for the first few months of recovery demonstrates how seriously you're taking it. so the people who complete the 90 in 90 are more likely working harder than those who don't.

i still go to regular meetings but no where near as many as i did. its still theraputic for me to be able to go and dump whatever is floating round my brain. i don't foresee me giving meetings up any time soon and i think they are still helping me in my recovery.

 

[nuttynutskin]

We want to get high so why shouldnt we?

Because we can't control using and it impacts our lives negatively.

 

[Burnt Offerings]

Meetings provide a sense of community that's very important IMO, for most people who desire to quit drugs.

It has less to do with the ideology of AA/NA or related groups, and more to do with replacing isolation with engagement, supporting others and getting support in a common struggle. So you can find it elsewhere, doesn't have to be AA/NA. But it is definitely important that you find that, a new peer group for yourself that's healthy and supports your goals

 

[WellTram]

You don't need meetings. You just need some good friend/friends who will be there for you, who will understand that even relaps is one of very possible things that may happens. If u wish to, you can ask your best friend or family member to control your drug intake. With strong will to quit, social support and some new hobby u will be ok. For example i started weight-lifting and boxing and it changed my life absolutely, feels much more healthy now.

 

[nznity]

Because we can't control using and it impacts our lives negatively.

I can control mdma usage, weed, same with alcohol. The only substances that get me on my knees are opiates AND Cocaine(crack). Forgot, benzos too i can use em responsibly.

 

[G_Chem]

because some people are not able to use any substances at all without them having a severely negative impact on their life. if you can get high on certain drugs without it affecting your recovery too badly,

i think vastness's critique is very fair.

there are some really evangelical people who throw themselves in whole heartedly and i think they can sometimes cause reputation problems by overstating the ability of their chosen program and basically only having one tool at their disposal. nearly 6 months into recovery my ptsd started absolutely killing me, i was crying at meetings every night for ages and people just kept telling me to do different things related to the program. none of them suggested that for serious mental health problems i might need help outside of the program, and i got worse and worse cos i was desperately trying everything these people were suggesting and wasn't getting any better. things only improved when i went to a dr and started getting ptsd-specific help. looking back its obvious that an addiction program can't help with other mental illnesses, but because everyone in the fellowship was blindly telling me to improve bits in my program, it took me a long time to work that out and i suffered unecessarily for it.

that said, and i do have some other issues of NA too, but I do think meetings are really useful. they are not the only way to recover, and don't work for everyone. the social aspect helps, especially being able to speak to people who understand. i find the format of being able to speak without interruption useful for working things out myself. i also found the 90 in 90 to be helpful when i got out of rehab. it gave me structure and was a huge commitment, i don't think its anything special about the meetings that helps, but i think making a significant time commitment e very single day for the first few months of recovery demonstrates how seriously you're taking it. so the people who complete the 90 in 90 are more likely working harder than those who don't.

i still go to regular meetings but no where near as many as i did. its still theraputic for me to be able to go and dump whatever is floating round my brain. i don't foresee me giving meetings up any time soon and i think they are still helping me in my recovery.

No substances... Except copious amounts of caffeine and nicotine of course. Well and I guess if your doctor prescribes it then that’s ok too.. Any other random supplement/nootropic/whatever they can take that isn’t a “drug” in their mind.

In my opinion everyone gets high. Caffeine is a strong stimulant, nicotine kills more people each year than most all drugs combined. B.W. even promoted LSD use!!! But will AA/NA recognize that?

It’s all a messy bullshit cult. The only positive side about the whole thing is that it’s free/cheap and easily accessible.

-GC

 

[G_Chem]

I can control mdma usage, weed, same with alcohol. The only substances that get me on my knees are opiates AND Cocaine(crack). Forgot, benzos too i can use em responsibly.

Watch alcohol and benzodiazepines because while they are a bit easier to control they can cause long lasting low level (or if higher doses used, not so low level..) anxiety which could cause you to go back to your other drugs of choice.

For me when I quit crack and opiates I had to stop drinking and doing Benzos too for that reason. Also when I’m drunk crack sounds like the best idea ever

After awhile I was able to bring them slowly back into my life. I can even occasionally use cocaine if I buy like just a half g and accept I’m gonna snort it all in one night. (Had years where I was able to control cocaine completely but I lost that ability after about 7-8yrs. Not sure how at the time..)

It’s all about being real with yourself, constantly recognizing that your mind plays games and trying to look through the games to what’s really going on. Psychedelics really help me with this, as well as proper diet and exercise, meditation, good hobbies.

Haven’t checked the other thread in a minute but hope you do find a way for substitution like Suboxone if you can get it.

-GC

 

[Iceman1216]

Just a shout out for the Meetings! Helped keep me Sober for over 20 years, and my life got so much better with out substances that where Mind Altering!! I am an addict and can get addicted to Diet soda, but it does con Trigger Cravings as Alcohol my DOC, and now opiates later in life after medical treatments.
But I did ALL THE WORK needed to get better , and for me that was meeting. BTW I dont have time for anything else if I dont stay clean. so one hour a day to hang out with people I really like, and help someone new and strugling works for me

 

[nznity]

Watch alcohol and benzodiazepines because while they are a bit easier to control they can cause long lasting low level (or if higher doses used, not so low level..) anxiety which could cause you to go back to your other drugs of choice.

For me when I quit crack and opiates I had to stop drinking and doing Benzos too for that reason. Also when I’m drunk crack sounds like the best idea ever

After awhile I was able to bring them slowly back into my life. I can even occasionally use cocaine if I buy like just a half g and accept I’m gonna snort it all in one night. (Had years where I was able to control cocaine completely but I lost that ability after about 7-8yrs. Not sure how at the time..)

It’s all about being real with yourself, constantly recognizing that your mind plays games and trying to look through the games to what’s really going on. Psychedelics really help me with this, as well as proper diet and exercise, meditation, good hobbies.

Haven’t checked the other thread in a minute but hope you do find a way for substitution like Suboxone if you can get it.

-GC

Man, youre advices are always the best , ik you've Been in the game longer than me so i take what u say seriously. It's true when i quit opiates i always tend to replace it for alcohol AND just like u said a huge blast of crack Cocaine sounds like a good idea while ure disinhibited by the alcohol. Ty for the advice Bro.

 

[AlphaMethylPhenyl]

Substitute addiction might be something to look up. For example, AA promises God, coffee, doughnuts, and cigarettes in place of alcohol.

 

[nznity]

Substitute addiction might be something to look up. For example, AA promises God, coffee, doughnuts, and cigarettes in place of alcohol.

Haha so true, they are replacing one addiction for another.