rape

[muzby]

okay...

with all this drama happening in the NRL at the moment, i thought it would be appropriate to raise what i consider to be a very serious issue..

the issue of rape...


now i know this is a contentious topic, so i'll request now that everyone respect everyone esle's wishes, so we don't start a flame war...

my personal opinion is that rape is quite possibly one of the worst crimes that a human being can do to another... worse than murder, as the memories will stick with the victim forever...

i, thankfully have never been raped, but a friend of mine was, and i feel responsible cause we were going to go out drinking to comisserate the fact that she had just broken up with her b/f.. i was too tired to go out, so she went out alone without me and was raped..

she never knew who it was, it was a completely random attack...


what do you think goes through a persons mind for them to commit such a crime? is it a power thing? are they sick? and how can people conduct gang rapes.. surely someone would speak up out of the group...


anyway, sorry for raising such a topic, but hey, it's not the sort of thing u discuss on friday afternoon beers after work is it????

 

[shorza]

...anyway, sorry for raising such a topic, but hey, it's not the sort of thing u discuss on friday afternoon beers after work is it????

Don't be sorry dude. The topic needs to be bought up and discussed just like the offenders need to be strung up publicly by their rude bits.

It is definitely the worst thing anyone can do to someone.

 

[*sunflower*]

Rape is definitely an act of power - its not about sex. But more than that, the people who commit this crime (and other completely heinous crimes) lack remorse, which is a basic human characteristic.

In gang rape, I think individuals don't speak up because they might be scared and also, more importantly, they get caught up in the moment. Group dynamics can be strange when there's a lot of emotion, particularly hatred and anger, involved in a particular situation. The Accused, a movie starring Jodie Foster, depicted this phenomenon quite well, although portrayed people cheering the rapists on rather than committing the crime itself.

As a woman rape is one of my greatest fears. Frighteningly, it happens more often than is thought, as most people won't take it further. Often too, its a person known to the victim. I've been in a situation where someone tried to force themselves on me, they were drunk and aggressive and someone I thought was a friend. Nothing happened but to this day, I find it difficult to trust guys until I get to know them.

Nothing of course, compared to your friend . I hope she's healthy and happy now and is dealing with this.

Edit: I didn't mean to make this sound like something that only happens to women - a friend of mine who used to work for LifeLine told me one day there's a huge number of guys who've been raped but there's even more of a stigma attached to men being raped than women so its never talked about. Hence they call LifeLine to try to deal with it.

It happens to men too.

 

[doofqueen]

^^ i agree with that...rape is definitely a power thing and not actually about the sex crime itself.

What i find horrid is that years ago (and i'm sure everyone has heard of this) someone told me that if you are ever getting raped your better off to scream out "fire" then "help" because you have a better chance of someone actually coming to your aid if they think they might be in danger themselves rather then just trying to help someone...sad isn't it?

 

[Jimity]

my personal opinion is that rape is quite possibly one of the worst crimes that a human being can do to another... worse than murder, as the memories will stick with the victim forever...

Agreed. Rapists are the single worst people on the face of the earth. I think rape in serious cases (not a he said she said date rape case, but one involving extreme violence etc), it should be a capital offence. Whether execution be state condoned or "other".


In regards to the NRL's latest scandel... I'm no HUGE fan of footy, but I watch the game. Now there seems something fishy here. A chick claims to have been gang raped by a large number of footy players. At a base level, my arguement against this is, that football players dont need to gangrape a chick. They are football players. They can get pussy when and where ever they want. Of course, this brings up the power issue when it comes to rape. Maybe one football player might some some power issues, but eight that just happen to be together at one given time? Bit odd.

Football players may be roughnecks who beat their heads together for our entitainment, but I dont see them as being rapists.

To me it just seems like a woman fucked shitloads of footy players, then the next morning either, didnt like being told to go home, or (as I have witnessed), she told her friends, they called her a slut and she cried rape.

My point is strenghtened by the sudden coming out of the woodwork of these other women who were plugged by NRL boys to say it was rape too.

Now, I'm not saying they didnt necissarily rape her, but I think the public should take a step back and look at everything.

If these guys are rapists, and it is proven beyond any reasonable doubt, then like all other rapists, they should be beaten to death with bags of adorable kittens.




P.S. I'm not here trying to offend anyone. I am merely stating my point of view in the whole current fiasco. Don't try to label me as someone who thinks footy players shouldnt abide by the same rules, because they should. But in turn, they shouldnt be burnt at the stake on "alligations" alone.

 

[doofqueen]

well rapist come second to pedos in my book...fuck they make me mad...if i ever found out that someone had harmed my chld that way i would tie them up and put a blowtorch to their balls, cut their eyes out with a fork, put a tube up their arse with barbed wire in it, take the tube out and then pull the barbed wire out

i'm not a violent person...really i'm not!

 

[Chaos Butterfly]

Regarding the NRL I was really happy to hear a quote by Darren Lockyer, current (or past, can't remember) Australian player saying "In the 60's the Dragons one 11 premierships with one Raper (Johnnie Raper - a player), just imagine how well the bulldogs are going to do."

This was fantastic even though he had to make a full public apology for his comment. Just goes to show that not ALL rugby league players are fuckwits, just the majority of the Bulldogs players

CB...

 

[Macksta]

Jimity:

Your attempt at armchair human behavioural psychology rests on some pretty dubious logic and reasoning if you ask me.
Your analysis is also pretty loose with the facts.

Her friends apparently initially found her huddled some distance from the pool, wet, crying, hysterical and with grazes. She was then taken directly to hosptal. It's not like she went calmly home.. had a chat with some people and then reported her claim to police.

Secondly, your case isn't stregthened at all by the fact more women have come out of the woodwork with similar allegations. I could just as easily say that these other women have been too afraid or apprehensive to come forth with their own possibly genuine claims until now... when they see they will not be all alone in doing so. Most victims of sexual assault never report the crimes inflicted upon their bodies, and I imagine it would be all the more difficult to do so in a situation where you are a lone woman with a serious claim up against not 1 but 25 team mates who will all back each other to the hilt, as well as the powerful club they represent. Not to mention all the publicity and media attention that would go along with all of it.

It's pretty common knowledge that 'gang banging' has been used and is viewed as a kind of rite that promotes male bonding between team mates in the code. It doesn't surprise me that players would actively seek to do such things, and I guess there's little drama if all of those involved give their consent.... But when one of those doesn't, or changes their mind.. well, what happens next? I guess it can go either of two ways.

And that's the 64 million dollar question, what a bunch of drunk, burly, sex charged league players with god complexes do in a situation like that?


The police will do their work and Im sure in the fullness of time we'll get a better understanding of who was responsible for what.

Either way, what isn't in dispute is that there seems to be a rather despicable culture of sexual orientated objectification of women that has existed in rugby league for sometime now. And I'm sorry, the argument that "gangbanging is nothing new for the club or for league" is not a good defence.

Especially when you represent a code that supposedly markets itself to young children and families.

 

[lostpunk5545]

Normally I am fairly liberal and forward thinking on must subjects. I am against capital punishment. But...

My ex-girlfriend was raped and after seeing someone I love come a hairs breadth from losing her mind, waking up to her screaming from the intensity of the nightmare she had been having, every part of me would like to see this punishment enacted for rapists...

Rapist - Gun in mouth - Grey matter on wall...

 

[kryalkastleE]

well although i don't really want to explain it in detail, but this is something that has happened to me and i think that it is one of the worst experiences a girl can go through. the person that did this to me was a friend of a friend, someone that my best friend thought would be okay for me to be left with, someone who seemed like a perfectly nice, harmless guy who would never do anything to me because he was a friend of my best friends. but i was wrong. the short version is i went out with a few friends, they all went somewhere else while i stayed in the club with this guy. i was drunk, he put something in my drink, i felt sick and dizzy so he kindly offered to take me "for a walk". i blacked out and woke up to find him on top of me. this fucking bastard just took me, thought that i was his for the taking, no consent, no fucking permission just like that. the feeling that i had that night was one of the worst feeling i think a human being can possibly have. i felt so violated, so disgusting and dirty....and for months i never told anyone, i kept replaying this night over and over in my head thinking that i did something wrong, that i must have led him on...that i was too drunk. this was much before i had done or tryed any drugs (with the exception of weed) and now that i have dabbled in many sorts of drugs, i think that he may have given me ghb....which now im just glad i didnt die from.

anyway i wanted to say all this so people realise that rapists are the lowest form of living things upon this earth. that violating someone without their permission can not only hurt them physically but mentally fucks them up for a substantial amount of time. this incident has fucked up many of my relationships due to trust issues etc and i can see how being raped can fuck up someone to the point of mental health issues, because i have almost been there and its fucked up. rapists that are arrested should have their fucking dicks cut off....they are the most disgusting and most mentally defective criminals that there are.....

i'm sorry if anyone disagrees with me but i think rape is one of the worst crimes against a person and it can ruin a persons life. i think rapists are sick sick deluded disgusting human beings that don't deserve to live.

*sorry about all the swearing and death wishes but this is a hard subject for me to talk about without getting fired up....hope you guys understand

 

[lostpunk5545]

No disagreement here

 

[BloSs0m]

*sigh*

has anyone seen the film or the play "Black Rock"??? well yeh. reminds me of that.

i am so scared that as a girl i am in such a vulnerable position.

i mean i get scared at work when we discuss how to deal with shop lifters.

As much as id like to think that the pathetic "Self defence" classes they give u in one sports class at school would help when facing this situation. i think the sheer fact that they wont scares me even more.

Im only little. i would never ever be able to out strength a guy. i mean tell me a girl who's 5"4 and weighs 50 kgs is going to be able to do anything in a rape situation. The sheer fact that men are naturally physically strongeris enough to tell u that they are going to over power the girl... that is unless she has muscles (which i dont). But even then...

Gang rape is an exceedingly frightening concept. Even more frightening than one on one rape. Becasue its been proven that humans have a definate pack mentality . Especially when under the influence. If you cant do anything about one guy. tell me your going to be able to do anything when faced with 10, 20 or 30 guys.

i get so angry when i hear stories of rape. but what gets me even more angry about rape is that everyone - female, male, young, old, married or single - is at risk and these selfish people have rendered it scary to go out and enjoy yourself. Rapists have made it that people cant go out and enjoy themselves without having some kind of fear for their personal safety.

The act of rape is horrific and should never happen. But its the repocussions (sp?) not jsut to the violated individual, but also to society in general. Its the general fear of rape which is abundent in society that makes me angry.

we should be able to live in a world without the fear of somebody violating our bodies in such a selfish disgusting way

Now days u cant even be positive the bartender hasnt slipped something in your drink.

i heard a story from a friend the other day, *not sure if true but very scary if is* that there are people who go to clubs, and they just have to throw something - im assuming some kind of powder - up in the air as they are dancing or whatever, and only a few specs of whatever this stuff is have to float around and settle in our drink and uend up munted at compleatly out of control - in a very very bad way. BUT when these people o this, they trow it up in the air and with the air movment or hatever, it folats around and can settle in ALL the drinks in the club...

as i said, i dont know if its true. It one of those "i heard it from a freiend of a friend of mine" kind of stories. But how scary is it.

RAPISTS havent only violated our bodies, but theyve violated ourtrust, and our general faith in human kind

*sigh*

 

[haste]

reading this thread makes me sad - sometimes the human race is nothing but a bunch of animals

My heart goes out to anyone who's had to endure such a frightening & violating experience.

 

[up all night]

It's pretty common knowledge that 'gang banging' has been used and is viewed as a kind of rite that promotes male bonding between team mates in the code. It doesn't surprise me that players would actively seek to do such things, and I guess there's little drama if all of those involved give their consent.... But when one of those doesn't, or changes their mind.. well, what happens next? I guess it can go either of two ways.

And that's the 64 million dollar question, what a bunch of drunk, burly, sex charged league players with god complexes do in a situation like that?

Wow. I don't think you've ever written something so stereotypical.

I'm not going to say anything about this matter until the police have done their investigation but I will say I definitely will not be judging these players until they've been proven guilty.

I've been involved in situations on both sides of the fence. I was assaulted when I was 19, however I also know a guy who was accused of rape because the girl was looking for attention [which she got]. The guy in question was vilified and cast out of his social circle. No-one let him tell his side of the story and months later it came out that while the pair had had sex, it was most definitely consensual.

I would also like to add that I don't believe the media should be allowed to broadcast this information until after a verdict has been made. It's extremely damaging to the players as individuals and the club as a whole.

 

[pubeman]

i have the inside scoop on the bulldogs fiasco, the cops have a pretty strong case, and a few players could be in massive trouble. One new signing will have his contract torn up if he is convicted and one international player did an act involving a champagne bottle

 

[The Earth Method]

People who cant control animal instincts should be treated like animals. Ie rapists should be kept in a jail for a while to grow fat, then slaughtered.

 

[friskk]

My friend was relating back to me a story that happened to her a year ago.
She was walking in the park near the zoo and was thrown to the grown and a guy jumped on her.

She then told the guy. Oh.. this does it. My own neighbourhood. I grew up here and this is my home. I feel safe and now you have destroyed it. I hope you feel happy knowing that this act has broken an innocence i once had with the only place called home... She then went on and on.

The guy held her down and after a few minutes. Stood up. Grabbed her by her hand. Picked up her bag. Gave that to her and the apologised.

He then turned around and walked away.

At no point did she struggle, cry, scream or yell for help. Merely just pointed out what he was doing to her. Interesting idea/tactic to take.. especially when rape is all about power.

F

 

[Macksta]

Wow. I don't think you've ever written something so stereotypical.

I'm not going to say anything about this matter until the police have done their investigation but I will say I definitely will not be judging these players until they've been proven guilty.

I've been involved in situations on both sides of the fence. I was assaulted when I was 19, however I also know a guy who was accused of rape because the girl was looking for attention [which she got]. The guy in question was vilified and cast out of his social circle. No-one let him tell his side of the story and months later it came out that while the pair had had sex, it was most definitely consensual.

I would also like to add that I don't believe the media should be allowed to broadcast this information until after a verdict has been made. It's extremely damaging to the players as individuals and the club as a whole.

I dont think anything I said has cast a stereotype. When I say it is common knowledge that gang banging is part of league culture.. I do so on the admission of Bulldogs players themselves who anonymously told the Sydney Morning Herald, ""Some of the boys love a bun. Gangbanging is nothing new for our club or the rugby league."

Couple this with former comments made to The Australian by an ex Super League era player who said, "When you picked up a girl in a bar after a game, it wasn't with the intention of just having sex with her yourself ... it was to share her with your teammates. You didn't just bonk them and then leave them. You passed them on. It was a team event."

I too do not wish to preempt the outcome of the police investigation and have not judged any of the bulldogs players on the allegations that have been made. I have simply posed that the crucial question is going to be whether the group sex was consensual or not. And whether the accused players are capable of rape.

I did say one line further down, "The police will do their work and Im sure in the fullness of time we'll get a better understanding of who was responsible for what."

And yeah, until the police finish their investigation we don't really know what happened.

What I AM judging the players on is the aforementioned culture of gang banging that seems to exist somewhere in the code. I think it's degrading to women and the fact that players don't seem to realise themselves the problems with it typifies the moral vacuum that many of them must live in. Darren Lockyer is a case in point. Incapable of understanding what is appropriate and what isn't when it comes to talking of allegations of sexual assault.

As Bob Carr said, "No one has cautioned him that a joke about rape is not a joke."

There are two issues here that need to be examined separately. The first is rape. The second is a culture of gang banging. The players should be given the presumption of innocence on the first, and judged according to everyones own moral conscience on the second.

 

[up all night]

A culture of 'gang banging' is degrading? Why? I would suggest the women are willing participants and very happy to get the oppurtunity to shag a footy team but the way you talk about it, it comes across as though the women are the innocent victims of lust-filled, testosterone charged perverts. Personally I see absolutely nothing wrong with consenting adults having group sex. There is nothing depraved or immoral about it. It does not make them more likely to become rapists if one of the girls changes their mind. I really don't understand the mentality of 'Oh they're footy players so they probably did rape that girl because they do so enjoy their tag teams.' To me it just sounds like you're trying to link gang-bangs with sexual depravity.

In regards to the Lockyer joke... personally I thought it was funny. It was definitely ill-timed and not something he should have said in front of the media but if a friend had made that comment I would have laughed.

And I fail to see how this:

a bunch of drunk, burly, sex charged league players with god complexes

isn't stereotyping...

 

[Macksta]

Yeah I think it is degrading certainly in the context of premier level rugby leage, although I do respect the fact that you don't believe it is. But look, I think it is extremely degrading to the wives and girlfriends back home. The culture also seems to embody some pretty virulently chauvanistic attitudes, such as that these woman who do have consensual group sex are afterwards called 'scrags' by the men who have had sex with them. I find that a bit degrading. That super league era player I mentioned also said, "Some of the excuses the guys came up with when their wives or girlfriends contracted some STD were pretty bizarre. One guy told his wife he picked it up when he put on his roommate's underpants by mistake. Another said he had sat on the toilet seat of a teammate who had the clap. And the wives believed them because they wanted to believe them." Clearly if you engage in promiscuous sexual activity with lots of strangers, that sort of thing is going to come up, and that is disrespect on a massive level.

I dont have a problem with consensual group sex either. But I mean everything has to be viewed in a context. The context for a bunch of single people off this msg board for example jumping in the sack with each other is going to be radically different to those of Rugby League players, some or all of whom have wives and girlfriends and supposedly market a lot of their appeal on family values, doing work with charities and children etc ... jumping into bed with each other and random women they pick up, and referring to them degradingly after. I mean fark, If you were a middle aged parent , would you want your little kid to idolise these league players who openly and unashamedly participate in group orgies with scrags. Maybe Im off key here but projecting myself into that situation.. I wouldnt be happy with it.

I mean, if a culture of gang banging is really not such a big deal for the club or the code. Why are the Bulldogs Captain and various executives scurrying to deny that such a culture exists in the club, and deploring the idea that it could be?

The type of consensual sex you talk of and espouse would presumably embody equal respect for all participants and not come at the expense of unknowing spouses and significant others by themselves miles away. Im not sure if this current Bulldogs situation has those qualities.

Once again as to the allegation of rape.. that's up to the police to decide, but I have sought to separate the two issues. Still, I guess it is a fine line comes when you consider that the only difference between perfectly legal consensual group sex and gang rape is a question of consent.

As to my stereotyping.. I would imagine that all those players involved in group sex were burly (as football players tend to be), sex charged and drunk... as one Sports Psychologist of footballers says in The Australian, "Booze is at the base of the league's problem and dealing with its abuse is the cure, says Peters. "I want someone to show me a 'bun' where no alcohol is involved." Proof is that wild sex "never happens on the way to the game". It is always after, when the grog flows." My comments only relate to those players involved in the allegations and not to all league players. As for the god complexes - perhaps that was unfair. :/

I've stolen liberally from these articles:

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/03/05/1078464649050.html

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,8883105^601,00.html

Good reading I thought.

EDIT - edited sloppy language on my part that could be mistaken as being inflammatory.

EDIT - Oh and I also agree with you that a lot of people, possibly pple in this thread have automatically assumed these players guilt of rape and/or seemed to link admissions of gangbanging as tantamount to admissions of rape. Quite unfairly in my opinion. Its also a bit unfortunate that I/we generated this discussion of the bulldogs fiasco under a thread heading simply called 'rape'. Because it does seem to pass judgement on them as guilty when no one has even been charged yet.