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Quitting high dose Kratom habit via taper

Scrillion

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Joined
Jan 8, 2017
Messages
215
Wow. That's rough. Glad you made it through.

Today has been VERY encouraging. First of all I made sure I ate a decent lunch at a decent time. This has made all the difference in the world. Second, I had my usual 5 gram dose at about 5:00 am, then a 7.5 gram dose at about 9:45. The great news is that I made it all the way until 4:00 in the afternoon before I felt any need to take another 5 gram dose. That is by far the longest I've been able to space out my 2nd and 3rd doses of the day. By far. I think I'm making significant progress. Started taking black seed oil again yesterday. Yesterday was real rough. Today I feel pretty damn good. I'll update again soon.
 

Scrillion

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Jan 8, 2017
Messages
215
Ok, so I tried to do 27.5 grams total the last few days and ended up taking a little more than that, but today I've been able to stick to the 27.5 gram total for the day. Feeling very encouraged. I think I'll stay at this daily dose for another day or two. I'll update again soon.
 

simco

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Ok, so I tried to do 27.5 grams total the last few days and ended up taking a little more than that, but today I've been able to stick to the 27.5 gram total for the day. Feeling very encouraged. I think I'll stay at this daily dose for another day or two. I'll update again soon.

You're doing great, Scrillon. I just wanted to reiterate advice you got earlier...giving your body adequate time to stabilize between drops in dose is super important. Only you know how much time is adequate. But there's also, usually, a competing desire to drop quickly to be done with the whole mess. It sounds like you're on the right track in every way. But remember: if you find you've dropped too quickly, there's no shame in undoing a drop until you're ready for it.
 

Scrillion

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Jan 8, 2017
Messages
215
Thanks Simco! I'm definitely going to stay at 27.5 for another day or two. My next drop will be to 25. Once I got the help of my family the hardest part has been just figuring out what minimum daily dose is sufficient to hold off withdrawals. It took about a week of experimentation to figure it out, but I think I'm at the proper dose now. Another thing I figured out was that a big part of the reason I was feeling shitty in the late afternoon early evening was due to poor dietary habits. I wasn't eating enough healthy food, or proper meals, and was just working a lot while putting down a couple Coca Colas. All that sugar and caffeine is counter productive for me. I started eating more regularly, more healthy, and stopped the stupid sodas and it has helped immensely. Also, I got a ton of excersize yesterday. I can't say enough good stuff about how much that helped. In the past when I went through withdrawals excersize was always THE most helpful thing so I'm going to get back on a regular everyday workout schedule. I've found that if I go for a long fast paced walk of 3-5 miles it makes me feel great. If I don't have time for that about 25 minutes of fairly intense cardio on the elliptical machine at the gym does me just as good. Feeling very positive, optimistic, and determined. Will update again soon.
 

Scrillion

Bluelighter
Joined
Jan 8, 2017
Messages
215
Haven’t updated this thread in a while. I’ve been having a hell off a time getting off the Kratom. Tapering didn’t work. It was too hard. So I’ve tried cold turkeying a few times. The last time I made it 11 days and then started taking it again. I’ve made 2 trips to the emergency room. They gave me Clonidine and a 2 day supply of Ativan. But I still failed. So I’m trying again. This time I’m trying the vitamin c megadose method. There are tons off threads in the web about it and several studies that have produced very favorable results. I started taking it yesterday. This morning I woke up feeling pretty awful and took about 5 grams of sodium ascorbate (type of powdered C that’s a bit easier on the digestive tract) and within 15 minutes I felt significantly better. This shit actually works. It hasn’t taken all the withdrawals away but it’s much less painful than it would have been otherwise. Definitely not placebo. Look it up. I’ll update again soon.
 

Totbot

Greenlighter
Joined
Jan 4, 2018
Messages
18
Haven’t updated this thread in a while. I’ve been having a hell off a time getting off the Kratom. Tapering didn’t work. It was too hard. So I’ve tried cold turkeying a few times. The last time I made it 11 days and then started taking it again. I’ve made 2 trips to the emergency room. They gave me Clonidine and a 2 day supply of Ativan. But I still failed. So I’m trying again. This time I’m trying the vitamin c megadose method. There are tons off threads in the web about it and several studies that have produced very favorable results. I started taking it yesterday. This morning I woke up feeling pretty awful and took about 5 grams of sodium ascorbate (type of powdered C that’s a bit easier on the digestive tract) and within 15 minutes I felt significantly better. This shit actually works. It hasn’t taken all the withdrawals away but it’s much less painful than it would have been otherwise. Definitely not placebo. Look it up. I’ll update again soon.

I have been following for a few days and am new to bluelight. Ive only ever read to get great info on taking drugs here but i want to get clean again. I need support and i want to give it too. Im praying for you scrillion and want to read the post where you won this battle. Ive been in and out of recovery since 2005. I thought i finally found a drug that doesnt ruin my life but that simply doesn't exist. I took kratom to quit opiates and alcohol and it worked but now im hooked. Taking 30 + grams daily. I have read tons of great stuff on this thread and intend to implement them. My thoughts right now for you is maybe you need to incorporate something more in your spiritual program with a sponsor and get a new healthy obsession. These are things that kept me clean for 5 years. I stopped doing them and relapsed. Ive not been able to pick up where ive left off because of trauma that happened in my relapse and health issues. I pray i get back to meetings but that's tough for me with a baby 2 teens and a controlling husband. I have to put my recovery first so have to overcome my excuses. I am reaching out to past supporters to figure out how to do this. And i want to use bluelight as a tool also. Scrillion please dont give up or lose hope. Set your eyes back on the prize. You can do this. My sponsor once told me that our experience is not for ourselves... It is to help others. You have definitely helped me today. Thank you for your journey so far!
 

Scrillion

Bluelighter
Joined
Jan 8, 2017
Messages
215
Yes, still felt it after 11 days. Fucking brutal. The very first time I cold turkeyed off Kratom the withdrawals last 1 1/2 days. I’ve been through it probably 7 or 8 times now and each time it got harder, longer, and more painful. I was taking huge doses for a while too, which I’m positive has made it worse. 80 grams on many days. Right now I’m taking just enough to not feel like hell and am getting ready to try again. Thanks for the encouragement and kind words. I greatly appreciate it. I’m all stocked up on black seed oil, sodium ascorbate (vitamin C), loperamide, amino acids, melatonin, and protein shakes and yogurt smoothies because it’s all I can put down for the first part of it. I’ve been attending a Chemical Dependency Intensive Outpatien Program and going to lots of AA meetings. Been looking for a sponsor as I want to be working the steps by the time I finish CDIOP in a week or so. I had 4 years of sobriety at one point and made the mistake of getting complacent with my recovery program and putting it on the back burner when life got really good. That’s a mistake I vow to never make again. Almost lost everything including my wife and my business. I know what it takes for me to live sober and am really excited about the future. I just have to get off this horrible shit so I can live the life I want and need. Even though this has been one of the most difficult experiences of my entire life, my spirits are actually pretty good considering the circumstances. I’m confident I’ll get off the Kratom soon. I’m very resilient and don’t know how to give up. Thanks again for all the posts. You guys have been very helpful. I’ll update again soon.
 

Totbot

Greenlighter
Joined
Jan 4, 2018
Messages
18
Thats a familiar story. Im in the very same boat. Thanks for the list of supplies. I know ill have to taper some and then jump off. I was in NA for a very long time and they always say that we MUST face the pain of withdrawal or continue to use. Thats always been my experience. Ive been praying for the willingness and courage for both of us. You are doing all the right things. I would suggest even a temp sponsor for when you jump off. You'll need more support as you already know. Im speaking to myself too. I am going to get to a meeting tomorrow. Im taking some time off to address this shit head on. Getting creative in the gym, kitchen and crafts to keep my mind occupied. We will most definately get this behind us. We r fkn fighters :)
 

Scrillion

Bluelighter
Joined
Jan 8, 2017
Messages
215
Wishing you and anyone else struggling the very best. We can get healthy, but we can’t do it alone. I urge anyone struggling to please get some help. Whether it’s AA, NA, Life Ring, treatment, or therapy or whatever it is you choose, just don’t try to do it alone. Also remember that you’re not a bad person. You’re a good person who is sick. This shit is a disease. Check out the documentary Pleasure Unwoven to better understand the brain malfunctions that occur with this disease. It was very helpful for me. Cheers to health, happiness, and sobriety going forward.
 

JackieB

Greenlighter
Joined
Jan 7, 2018
Messages
4
Hi I just moved away from Florida and quit a Suboxone habit of 3 years with only a couple to taper off with. Of course it took a week to start feeling withdrawals, and I keep seeing this kratom, can anyone explain it or if it'll help me? We don't have that in Florida I guess since pills are so easily found, but it said it's sold legally here? Lol idk some advice would be great
 

Scrillion

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Joined
Jan 8, 2017
Messages
215
Kratom is a tree that grows in SE Asia who’s leaves contain a variety of alkaloids. Some of the alkaloids have psychoactive effects. One in particular hits some, but not all, of the opioid receptors. The effects are kind of like a mild opiate, but large doses can be pretty powerful. A lot of people are touting it as a good way for opiate dependent people to get off the stronger opioids like heroin and prescription opioids. I personally think that is bad advice, as Kratom causes physical dependency of its own fairly quick. If you read this whole thread you’ll see that Kratom withdrawals can be pretty damn brutal too. Im sure it’s nothing like heroin or prescription opioid withdrawals, but it’s no picknick. I’ve been trying to get off of it for months and it’s been extremely painful and difficult. Last time I tried I made it through 11 days of compete hell and relapsed because it was so painful. A lot of the information on the web about Kratom is very misleading. It’s not as harmless as people say. Proceed with extreme caution. It’s a terrible idea to replace one dependancy with another. It gets you nowhere. I’ve struggled with chemical dependancy issues for years and withdrawn off of alcohol, Benzos, phenibut, and Kratom several times. The Kratom kick is turning out to be one of the most difficult for me. If you are trying to get off of any substance please don’t make the mistake I’ve made and replace one thing with another. It will just prolong your pain and suffering and could keep you in a cycle of addiction that could last your entire life. A Dr can sometimes help you get through withdrawals, but I’d proceed with caution there as well. Some Drs don’t fully understand these issues and could end up giving you a different substance that will cause the same issues. Maybe even worse, as is the case with Benzos. Excersize and non-addictive supplements like amino acids seems to be the best things for helping a withdrawal along. I wish you the very best with your suboxone withdrawal. Im sure it is very difficult but you can do it. You’ll be so glad you did it when you’re on the other side. I highly recommend some sort of recovery program. It’s extremely helpful, as truly overcoming addiction is something we cant do alone. There is no shame in seeking help. In fact it’s rather commendable. Look up the vitamin C megadose method for opioid withdrawal. It seems to be quite effective for a lot of people. I’ve tried it and though it did not completely eliminate withdrawals, it did help quite considerably. Sending you love and positive vibes. Much respect as well.
 

JackieB

Greenlighter
Joined
Jan 7, 2018
Messages
4
Wow thank you for your help and advice!!! I never went to a sub doc and dosed down correctly and lucky not to be in Florida cause I would just go right back where I was, but feeling like I do, I wanted to try the kratom for a couple days until I can get into my sub doc here in Washington next week. I'm at that feeling where I don't want to wait for my appointment in 8 days but I also don't want my friend to over night me something from FLA, I want to do this the right way. Also not in the mindset to seek counseling, don't think I'm there yet. In FLA u go to a sub doc, they only take cash and never ween u off, it's so screwy, but here it seems they do. I've dealt with pill addiction half my life, just to switch to sub addiction, and trust me from what I've read about kratom I've heard it can be bad too, but do u think only taking it a couple days will do that to me? And do they sell at smoke shops?
 

Scrillion

Bluelighter
Joined
Jan 8, 2017
Messages
215
Kratom can cause physical dependency and some withdrawals in as little as 4 days. If you are already physically dependent on another opiate it will more or less happen immediately. Some head shops sell it in CO, where I live, but those products are often adulterated with other substances as well as Kratom extracts. The quality is usually very poor too. I wouldn’t mess with that. To acquire the cleaner and better quality product you usually have to order it from online vendors. I highly recommend trying out the vitamin C megadose method instead. Just google it to find out the specifics. Many people dealing with very severe opioid dependancy and withdrawals have reported that it completely eliminated withdrawals when done right. If you try it be sure to drink a lot of water throughout the day. The one risk I’ve read that is possible, but not necessarily probable, is that high doses of vitamins over long periods of time could perhaps contribute to kidney stones. However out of all the case accounts I’ve read not one person reported that happening. I personally don’t think it’s much of a risk if you only do it for a week or so, but I figure it’s best to mitigate that risk by staying well hydrated. Id say that even if it is a slight risk, it’s a hell of a lot safer than opioid dependancy. Glad I could be a little helpful. Best of luck to you. Im honestly and sincerely pulling for you. Being free from these stupid substances will give you true freedom and you deserve it. It’s a gift you can give yourself that’s better than any other. Please take care, be good to yourself, and keep us updated here if you can. Hearing your struggles and/or successes will be incredibly helpful to all of us who are trying to get better. Love and light to you.
 

falsifiedhypothesi

Moderator: BDD, OD, Music
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Feb 22, 2014
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I just cold turkied a ~15 gram a day habit about a week ago. It wasn’t as bad as i thought it’d be but i’ve been working out and trying to eat good everyday since then. Kratom doesn’t seem to be as addictive, in the fiendish sense, as other opioids but it still bites into you and having that constant supply keeps the habit going.

How are you doing as far as cravings Scrillion?
 

Scrillion

Bluelighter
Joined
Jan 8, 2017
Messages
215
My experience has been that the first couple times I withdrew weren’t terrible, but it’s gotten longer and more painful each time. Cravings aren’t really that bad for me. I hate being on the shit at this point, so I don’t really crave it much. Glad you made it through! Congratulations! Thanks for sharing. Gives me a little more hope. I can’t wait to be free from this stupid crap. Im dealing with an extremely stressful business situation at the moment, but should be able to move past it later this week. At that time I going to try the cold turkey again. I think this is the one that I make it through. Im determined as hell and think I have the right tools, supplements, mind set etc. to make it happen.
 

Totbot

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Jan 4, 2018
Messages
18
I too have been off and on opiates for many years. Last year i was on suboxone and got pregnant so i had to wean off right before i had her. I had no real support in place and relapsed 6 weeks later. I was so mad at myself and so scared of withdrawal and taking care of a baby that i turned to kratom... Which i have to drive to another state for. I use a smoke shop when im waiting on my shipment from a Indonesian vendor. Anyway i wish i had just bitten the bullet with the pills... That only lasts a few days but the cravings get to be too overpowering. I dont have as intense cravings with kratom but its so easy to get and i have kilos at a time so i take way too much. Im an addict. Thats what im going to do every time. My goals are to get some accountability and more support. I usually do toss and wash because i get best results but im brewing tea to break that habbit. It doesn't hit me as hard and I pay better attention when measuring so i can be more precise with my taper. Ive only been using kratom for a few months but initially i was just going to use it for a few days to get off pills. Of course this junkie just got caught by another substance. I was clean for 5 years before i relapsed 3 years ago and i miss it like nothing else. Being here on bluelight gives me hope and motivation to do something different. Thanks guys for taking the time to post your thoughts and experience here.
 

Scrillion

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Jan 8, 2017
Messages
215
Thanks for sharing Totbot. Sounds like you have the desire to get clean, which is huge as many people don?t even get to that point. I know how you feel about wanting that sober clean life back after having it for several years. I had 4 years of sobriety at one point and I want it back desperately. Those were, by far, the best 4 years of my life. It all fell apart when I went to the Dr to get relief from an anxiety disorder and ended up on Benzos for 6 weeks. I was abusing them within 2 weeks and by the end of 6 weeks I was taking 6-8 mg of Klonopin a day. I was so looped out on the Klonopin that I ended up drinking one day after 4 years of not drinking. Alcohol was my original addiction. That scared the shit outta me, so I threw out the Klonopin. Big mistake. The withdrawals from the Klonopin were the single most painful and traumatic experience of my entire life, and that?s saying something because Ive been through my fair share of shit. It gave me mild PTSD it was so bad. Benzo withdrawals are the absolute worst. I?ve read many accounts of people saying it?s worse than heroin withdrawal. I?ve never done heroin so I can?t independentky verify that claim, but I believe it. I spent 2 weeks in fetal position on the couch unable to sleep. It was a combination of the worst anxiety I?ve ever experienced, worst depression I?ve ever experienced, worst insomnia I?ve ever experienced, and worst nausea/dysphoria I?ve ever experienced. 6 months later I was still having symptoms. The anxiety was severe. Anyway, that sent me on a 3 year nightmare of relapses on various substances. I kept trying to self medicate to get relief from withdrawals. Then I?d end up in withdrawals from the substance I used to self medicate with. It was a chain reaction that has ruined the last 3 years of my life. Now Im determined to get off the Kratom to put a stop to this madness. I take Lexapro for anxiety and it works like a charm. I?ve been busting my ass in my Outpatient program, AA, NA, and therapy, as well as meditating, getting excersize, and trying to be helpful to others. I feel like the life I had during those 4 years of sobriety is at my fingertips and will be here as soon as I get through these Kratom withdrawals. I almost lost everything over the last 3 years, including my wife and my business. Im very lucky to have some very supportive and understanding friends and family, so that?s been incredibly helpful. My wife and I are on good terms again and my business is doing alright. Im so close, yet so far. But im determined and don?t know how to give up, so im very hopeful and excited for the future. Much love and respect to all battling this disease.
 

Totbot

Greenlighter
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Jan 4, 2018
Messages
18
My brother kicked xanex and only through that nightmare could he understand the hell i had been battling for years. I haven't been able to fully kick opiates in years because of the fear of how bad it is. People say its no worse than the flu but it is. The cravings dysphoria and restless lethargy are the worst aspects for me. I am scared mostly becauae its so difficult for me to get to meetings and because im so disconnected from that community. Itll happen though... Just have so much work to do. I have so much hope for those of you who are already in a program. Scrillion do you t & w or brew and how much and often do you taper? I know that the more we work at and invest in our recovery the more fiercely we protect and value it. That is my meditation for today.
 
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