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Quitting high dose Kratom habit via taper

Rantanplan

Bluelighter
Joined
Aug 13, 2017
Messages
53
Hello Scrillion,

hope I can help you a little bit out with my experience and knowledge...


  • Clean yourself with enemas. The enemas should contain Natriumbicarbonate. Enemas are crucial! No matter as nasty as it sounds to you - you are not gay if you do this. But this helps really to cleanse your body.
  • Sometimes cold sweat is due to the lack of sugar in your system. Check that.
  • Use Curcuma with Black Pepper to cut your dosage an potentiate the effect.
  • Magnesium-Citrate is also very helpful to potentiate and rebuild your receptors.
  • Your stomach has dislearned to proper digest your intake. Stimulate him with spiced up soups. But if you can, do not use cheap fast food soup, make something like chicken soup by your own. Also this will distract you -> win/win
  • As mentioned above, I also think smaller, but more often to intake is better in your situation. But only if your withdrawal symptoms are kicking in. Kratom works quite fast. So no problem with that. Try starting with the lowest dosage you can do. Like 5-8g. Or if you want to take only a one timer, then always reduce 0.25-1g if you are lower than ~15g-20g (there you should go as quick as possible)
  • Dissociative can rebuild your receptors, also some can completely knock out your withdrawals. Dextromethorphan is over the counter very easy to acquire.
  • Do not forget that many people use stems & vein Kratom to combat withdrawals. I never tried this. But I heard only good reviews about this.
  • Switching strains seems also to help.
  • There is also a substance I forget the name. If you take it, you can immediately cut your dosage to a half. Acmarine? I will try to find out the name...

Good luck my unknown friend. If you have questions about the things written above, do not hesitate to ask. I am active in the forum atm, because I have to combat my Phenibut addiction.
 
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MDPV_Psychosis

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Sep 15, 2006
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Found it :D The substance is called Agmatine.

I never found much help with agmatine when I tried using it will while tapering. Some people have reported it helps so maybe I was just unlucky or had bad agmatine.

If you find it helps then I'd be interested in the details (how it helps, how much you took and how often you took it)
 

Scrillion

Bluelighter
Joined
Jan 8, 2017
Messages
215
Thank you Rantanplan!! I will try some of your tips!

I was dependent on Phenibut about a year ago and was able to totally painlessly taper. I had been taking up to 15 grams a day, maybe more, I can't remember, for about 6 weeks when I started my taper. I would dose I think 2 or 3 times a day and I decreased my dose by 300 mg every 3 days. I also took about a gram of agmatine with each dose. I had absolutely zero withdrawals and when I jumped at the end I didn't feel a thing. It was very easy. I hope this helps you. I started a thread on Bluelight. Here is the link...

http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/812698-Phenibut-withdrawal-taper-w-fasoracetam

Just FYI the fasoracetam wasn't very helpful but I didn't need it anyway. At the time I thought the agmatine was helping but now I'm not so sure it was necessary. Agmatine seemed to give me a little anxiety, but my biochemistry seems to be much much more sensitive than the average person. There are specific details in the thread about how I did it. Best of luck!
 
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Scrillion

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Jan 8, 2017
Messages
215
Hey Rantanplan, how effective is the Curcumin with Black Pepper? How much should I take? Take it before my Kratom dose, I assume?

Thanks in advance!

Anyone who can answer the following question please feel free to chime in: how do I "tag" another blue lighter when I'm posting? For example I put "Rantanplan" in this post. Thanks
 

Scrillion

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Jan 8, 2017
Messages
215
Also, if I'm potentiating Kratom would that be slowing down my recovery/healing? I don't fully understand the biochemical processes involved. Thanks
 
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shartito

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Aug 11, 2017
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448
Also, if I'm potentiating Kratom would that be slowing down my recovery/healing? I don't fully understand the biochemical processes involved. Thanks

I’m not a chemist nor a potentiation pro, but unless the potentiation increases the amount of the dose that binds to the opioid receptors, it shouldn’t cause major setbacks to your taper plan.

It’s my understanding that potentiating usually has to do with inhinibiting the enzymes that break down the active ingredient, increasing its effect and making it last longer. But it’s not increasing the amount of chemical that’s binding to your opioid receptors.

That’s my layman’s opinion.
 

Rantanplan

Bluelighter
Joined
Aug 13, 2017
Messages
53
Thank you Rantanplan!! I will try some of your tips!

I was dependent on Phenibut about a year ago and was able to totally painlessly taper. I had been taking up to 15 grams a day, maybe more, I can't remember, for about 6 weeks when I started my taper. I would dose I think 2 or 3 times a day and I decreased my dose by 300 mg every 3 days. I also took about a gram of agmatine with each dose. I had absolutely zero withdrawals and when I jumped at the end I didn't feel a thing. It was very easy. I hope this helps you. I started a thread on Bluelight. Here is the link...

http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/812698-Phenibut-withdrawal-taper-w-fasoracetam
Funnily I found your thread via Google, when I was searching for taper methods :)

Just FYI the fasoracetam wasn't very helpful but I didn't need it anyway. At the time I thought the agmatine was helping but now I'm not so sure it was necessary. Agmatine seemed to give me a little anxiety, but my biochemistry seems to be much much more sensitive than the average person. There are specific details in the thread about how I did it. Best of luck!
I read also that Agmatine could help, but I am out of money atm. So I have to deal with that supplies that I have...

Hey Rantanplan, how effective is the Curcumin with Black Pepper? How much should I take? Take it before my Kratom dose, I assume?

Thanks in advance!
For me - if I taper - 6.5g Kratom with 2g Curcumin and a teaspoon of Black Pepper are the same like 8g alone. But this depends on the user.
In your case if you use 20g I would try to use 3.5g Curcumin and two teaspoons of Black Pepper with 15g Kratom.
Also after a few hours you can again use Curcumin to bring the Kratom feeling back. Not fully but noticeable.

Watch out! I remembered something else which is real good deal: Black Seed Oil (Nigella sativa). Oh dear, this is really good. First it can potentiate the Kratom for about 15-50% and also it really combats the withdrawal symptoms if taken alone. It acts as an indirect agonist at the opioid receptors. Be careful if you take this. Because in combination with your normal dose you will get definitely high again. And I know we all like that feeling. So cut dosage to 2/3. Better would be 1/2, what will be really enough if you like to get off. Please I urge you to handle this information with absolute care. I was long time thinking to tell you that. Because it can ruin your plan totally and absolute fast. I do not know atm, if it would better for you just to take it alone without Kratom. Because it combats withdrawals effectively. I have no idea atm what will be better for you. May be I have an idea later.

(That was a real helper for me, beside the other things I have written. Thinking back it was helping the most, from the supply list, beside Dissociative (but they work different -> NDMA receptor)

Also consider really to take enemas. Because they cleanse your body and flush completely the old Kratom out of your intestine, what will do also a very positive effect -> less withdrawals.
 

Scrillion

Bluelighter
Joined
Jan 8, 2017
Messages
215
Thanks so much Rantanplan! I've read about using black seed oil for Kratom withdrawals/taper. I like the idea of being able to taper a little quicker with bigger drops. I'll use this information with caution and I appreciate your delicacy with sharing that info. Is that something I can purchase at Viramin Cottage/Natural Grocers? Also, how much would be an effective dose?

So far today I'm off to a good start. I took about 5 grams of capsuled Kratom in the middle of the night and was able to hold off most of the withdrawal symptoms until I woke up and redosed. This was a godsend as I've been waking up with severe withdrawal symptoms lately which has been pretty brutal and has made me feel hopeless. Still feeling very encouraged. Fessing up to my family and asking them to hold onto the Kratom, distribute my measured doses to me, and helping me keep track of my progress and drops has been exactly what I needed.

I'll update with the specifics of my dosing schedule and dose amounts soon. Gotta get to work, which also makes me feel good and is great for morale.
 

Scrillion

Bluelighter
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Jan 8, 2017
Messages
215
I picked up some cold pressed black seed oil. Going to give it a shot today. I'll report back with the results of the black seed oil experiment tonight or in the morning. I found the black seed oil and curcumin at Sprouts, but I called Natural Grocers and they carry those products as well. I didn't have enough cash to buy the curcumin also, but I'll be able to pick it up tomorrow. I'll grab the black pepper too. I read on another thread that 1-2 teaspoons should be an effective dose for the black seed oil.

Also, not having to deal with full blown withdrawals when I woke up has made this day all around much easier. It seems as though the fact that my body didn't have to recover from severe withdrawals this morning has made the Kratom dose I took this morning more effective. When I was having the brutal morning withdrawals it seemed like my body would take a good part of the day to recover and get back to a point of stabilization. So this is VERY encouraging, to say the least. I now feel like this taper is going to be much more manageable and possible. I just need to keep dosing regularly, as you guys have suggested, while decreasing the doses of course. That may seem like common sense, but I must say there has been a significant learning curve figuring out the most effective and manageable way to do this. Unlike the past week that was very frustrating and down right scary as hell, I think I'm going to be able to do this fairly easily. I'm sure I'll have to deal with some painful bullshit at the end, but it won't be anything I can't handle and I think it will be fairly short lived.

I can't tell you guys how grateful I am for all your help and support. This thread has really been a lifesaver. Thank you so much.
 
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Scrillion

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Jan 8, 2017
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Quick update: the black seed oil definitely seemed to potentiate. I'll update again tomorrow.

Wondering if I should or should not use both the black seed oil and the curcumin w/black pepper together.

Thoughts? Experiences?

Thanks in advance!
 

Scrillion

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Jan 8, 2017
Messages
215
Also, I'm not going to have withdrawals from the black seed oil am I? Ugh. I'd hate to have another thing to withdraw from.

Just read on a Wikipedia that Dextromethorphan can cause serotonin syndrome when used with SSRI medicines as it also works as a serotonin reuptake inhibitor. I take Lexapro for generalized anxiety disorder (and it works very well for me) so I won't be able to use DXM.

Rantanplan I haven't gone for the enema yet, but I'm not necessarily opposed if it can help. I'll have to sleep on that one for now though. Haha!
 
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Scrillion

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Jan 8, 2017
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So the taper has been going very well since I've been been getting help with it from my family. They hold on to my Kratom supply, measure out my doses so I don't take more than needed, and help me keep track of my progress. As you can see in my previous posts I was struggling to have the discipline to not take more than I needed for the taper. I'm now very confident that I'll be successful in getting off this horrible shit this way.

So, 5 days ago, when my family started helping, I took about 35 grams throughout the day. I've been decreasing regularly for the last 5 days, which so far has been fairly easy. I took 35 grams total for a couple days, then 30, and today I'm planning on doing about 27. I don't have a scale so we've been just using a teaspoon to measure the doses. Today I took about 5 grams in capsules when I got up at 5:00 am to use the bathroom. When I got up around 9:30 I took about 7.5 or 3 level teaspoons full. I felt some withdrawals when I got up at 9:30 but now, about 20 minutes later, I feel fine. For the rest of the day I'm going to take 3 doses of 5 grams or 2 level teaspoons. This should do me fine in keeping withdrawals at bay throughout the day. That will be a total of about 27.5 grams for the day, which is less than half of the 60-70 grams a day I was taking for the last few weeks. Depending on how today goes I'll decide if I should hold at this daily dosage for a few days or try another drop. I'm not surprised that I've been able to decrease rapidly at these high doses as I've had similar experiences tapering other substances. I know I'll have to go a little slower when I get to lower daily doses, but that's fine. I haven't been needing the black seed oil and curcumin yet, but I'll definitely use those tools when I get to lower doses. I'm soooooooo glad I'm tapering and not going the cold turkey rout. Cold turkey is just so god damn painful and I'm tired of suffering. I've experienced enough pain and suffering due to substance abuse and Chemical Dependency to last 10 lifetimes.

On that note my recovery program is also going very well. I'm enrolled in an Outpatient program, I attend AA, and I have a certified addiction therapist. I've actually been in recovery for about 7 years and had a good 4+ years of sobriety at one point, which were by far the best 4 years of my life. I started struggling again a few years ago and hit bottom again a couple months ago. I'm very happy to be back on track and am extremely excited for the future. If you or anyone you knows is struggling with addiction please know that there is help out there and that you/they can get better. It takes some hard work, open mindedness, and soul searching but it is absolutely worth it. I've seen many many people battle this disease and get healthy and go on to live happy, healthy lives. I've also seen many more people try to battle it on their own and have never seen a single one of them get better trying to do it on their own without help. We need help to do it. If anyone has any questions about recovery please feel free to reach out. I'm here to help and give back in any way I can. I think I can recieve personal messages here on Bluelight, but I'm not positive. Thanks again to all who have posted on this thread.
 
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Scrillion

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Jan 8, 2017
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215
Update on today's progress: I ran into a little bit of trouble. About 2:30 this afternoon I started feeling very crappy. I think part of it was due to the fact that I hadn't had enough to eat. So I took one of my 5 gram doses and got something to eat. It took me a good hour or more to start feeling better. Of course while it was going on I started to feel a little frustrated and hopeless and I ended up taking 2 more 5 gram doses over the course of a couple hours. So I'm trying to learn from the experience and continue moving forward. Feeling much better now. I think I'll stay at my current dose for another day or two.

One option I've been pondering is going down to a much lower dose of maybe 15 grams a day for a couple days and just toughing it out until I stabilize. Or maybe just do that for 2 days then get back on a dose that takes withdrawals away. My thinking is that I could speed up the progress a bit by doing this. I figure I will get a significant amount of healing done in a couple days and when I reinstate to a dose that takes withdrawals away it will be significantly lower than where I am before. Remember that when I tried to cold turkey last month I had debilitating withdrawals for 6 days before I broke down and started taking it again. I think I can handle a couple days of feeling crappy, but if I cold turkey I know it would be at least 6 days of hell, probably more. Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

Thanks in advance!
 

MDPV_Psychosis

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Sep 15, 2006
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When you start getting to lower doses you'll notice even more how much of an impact taking a dose has on you with an empty stomach versus a full one.

If I dose just after eating OR I dose and then eat too soon afterwards I notice it takes longer to kick in and it never kicks in very strong. With tapering this essentially means I have to endure feeling crappy... It kinda feels like a waste of a dose.

So I make sure to dose on an empty stomach and I don't eat until at least an hour after dosing.

So I can get by with smaller doses this way. The downside is that, even though it causes a stronger effect, it also wears off quicker. So it's a double edge sword.

Don't know if that had anything to do with why your 5gram dose didn't help much (you said you ate after dosing) but I thought I'd mention my experience.
 

cdin

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Jul 26, 2009
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597
this might sound crazy, but this is what I had to do: I found kratom withdrawals to be so unbearable, I had to switch back to hydrocodone and taper that. Additionally to the black seed, the other two best things I can recommend are : proglumide and ULDN (Ultra Low Dose Naltrexone). I switched back to hydro (or actually oxy as I had medical/surgical complications), then tapered at .5 - 1mg daily stabilizing 2 - 3 days after a 7mg drop. I added the proglumide and uldn at the end. nearly painless.
 
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