Misc Quit huge kratom habit, experiencing NO wd symptoms..

[Thejackal5654]

Like it says, just quit a massive kratom habit. I was dosing all day everyday up to 50g+(stupid I know, those levels just make you feel like shit). BUT... my last does was just shy of TWO days ago and I literally feel nothing.... I mean nothing, first day I had running nose, watery eyes and yawned like crazy but even thats gone now... I've been dosing 3 hundred mg's of gabapentin every 5 or so hours and eaten a few etizolam mostly to help pass the time and that is it. I'm completely baffled .... Not that I'm complaining but wtf is the deal here? Any idea? Feel stupid for even asking seeing as how I should just stfu, take my luck and run with it, but this has captured my curiosity.

sidenote... I quit a 6 year 5-6 mg a day bupe habit cold turkey over a year ago which really sucked, so it makes me wonder even more wtf is going on here... Did I hit the kratom abstinence lottery or something

 

[Slow_Mobius]

How long were you using? Also the etizolam and gabapentin might be helping

I can't imagine anyone could tolerate gulping down 50+ g of kratom a day...

 

[Thejackal5654]

About A year solid all day on the kratom. I know those doses are stupid and completely cancel out all the positive of the herb. But I mean I feel not a damn thing. I'm sitting in my living room right now with no shirt on feeling perfectly comfortable and were almost at the 48 hr mark. No sweating, cold chills, bouncing legs, I mean NOTHING..... Since I woke up I've taken 200 mg of gaba, that's it. This is just truly baffling to me.

 

[psy997]

Maybe your system is so overloaded that it's still processing some and you have just yet to hit it because of it?

 

[Thejackal5654]

That's crossed my mind but I did allot of bupe for allot longer than a year and it only took a few days to kick in and there's NO WAY kratom can even compare to bupes power/half life. I can understand the first day feeling ok but two days in?

 

[ZayKayWill]

2 theories come to my mind:

1. It hasn't hit you yet and in a few more days you'll start to feel it.
2. You just got lucky and won't experience any WD symptoms. Some people use a lot and experience literally no WD symptoms. Everyone is different.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

Maybe your system is so overloaded that it's still processing some and you have just yet to hit it because of it?

this is what i think....kratom wd seems to peak on the 3rd day for me...and this is with only 10 g a day. so with 50 he probably still has quite a bit in his system.

 

[Thejackal5654]

Given the half life of the alkaloids that I've seen I just don't understand how two days in you'd still be fine..... I know K is different from other drugs but say you develop a 200mg a day oxy habit its not going to build up and delay withdraw for multiple days. Like I said, I did bupe for many years and concerning half life that's about as long as it gets and I remember not feeling well at all on day two, of course the real shit didn't hit until day 4/5 but still.. I've read plenty of stories of people doing 30G a day and getting inter-dose withdrawals if they skipped one...

 

[Thejackal5654]

Update. Almost 3 days in and nothing other than a few sneezing fits. Read a story on reddit of a gentleman exactly in the same situation as mine. Long time bupe user who endured the good time known as sub withdrawal, then found kratom and wound up taking stupid levels, quit that and felt almost nothing.... Makes yah wonder. Anyone have any of their own experiences on this?

 

[froglegs]

I've CTed a fairly substantial Kratom habit (~20g daily of high quality plain leaf) several times. While I wouldn't say withdrawal symptoms were nonexistent, they were extremely mild. I felt colder than usual for the first couple days, a bit lower energy / mood, and a couple restless nights of sleep, but that was about it (nothing at all like the chills / cold sweats / hot flashes / creepy-crawlies / RLS / burning anxiety / depression / nausea / vomiting / extremes of typical opiate withdrawal). I found that if I kept myself busy / kept my mind occupied, I completely forgot about it.

What I find truly miraculous about Kratom though, is it's ability to negate withdrawal symptoms of stronger opiates. To a large extent, the traditional wisdom of "using X to wean yourself off of Y is just delaying the inevitable" doesn't seem to apply with Kratom. In my experience, substituting Kratom for a stronger opiate almost completely eliminates withdrawal symptoms (to the point where you can actually feel somewhat decent). If you then maintain on Kratom for a period of time, when you come off the Kratom, you only experience the mild Kratom withdrawal symptoms (none of the more severe symptoms of the stronger opiate).

There have actually been studies which found that the combination of mitragynine with morphine prevented the buildup of tolerance in mice (link to one study below if anybody is interested). Additionally, while mitragynine and 7OH-mitragynine are largely responsible for the opiate effects, there are more than 25 additional alkaloids in Kratom leaves as well. Some of these alkaloids act as opioid receptor antagonists (possibly responsible for Kratom being so relatively safe), as well as NMDA antagonists (which have shown the ability to prevent buildup of tolerance as well).

It truly is a shame that people fall prey to drugs like Methadone and Suboxone, when Kratom (a FAR less expensive, FAR more effective substitute, with FAR, FAR fewer side effects) exists. I'm 100% convinced that's the reason behind the impending Kratom ban in the US, but that's a topic for another day.



The Combination of Mitragynine and Morphine Prevents the Development of Morphine Tolerance in Mice:
http://www.mdpi.com/1420-3049/18/1/666/pdf

 

[Thejackal5654]

^^Good read. I definitely wish I would've ordered some before kicking subs, it truly has some incredible properties. Looks like I dodged a bullet on this one. I'm a little chilly, didn't sleep the best, but that's about it. I've always gotten RLS and I went into this with a good mindset but had no doubts I'd be doing some serious leg bouncing. Damn I'm happy there's none of that.

 

[chase_in_56ace]

Can't believe no one's mentioned this.... It's the gabapentin, OP. Takes away all withdrawal at high doses for a short time. Drop the gaba and you'll see where I'm coming from in around 6-12hrs when it's really dwindling down in your system....

 

[Thejackal5654]

Can't believe no one's mentioned this.... It's the gabapentin, OP. Takes away all withdrawal at high doses for a short time. Drop the gaba and you'll see where I'm coming from in around 6-12hrs when it's really dwindling down in your system....

Dunno if I'd call 2-300 mg two or three times a day "high doses". I even skipped a dose or two and felt no adverse effects. Now I could understand if I was downing 900mg gaba caps every hour but that isn't exactly the case here... I know gaba works some magic but to just wipe out all effects completely I find hard to believe.

 

[2017istheYear]

I'm.in day 4 and almost done with wds...About a 25g a day habit...Day 1 and 2 suck but I went to the doctor because of flu symptoms and was prescribed tamiflu. I wonder if that has helped reduce the wds.. Good job on no wds...

 

[JackARoe]

I have shoveled in excess of 50 gr a day in the past. However going CT was an annoyance. When I got down to 12 gr a day stopping was no more than sneezes, teary eyed and lethargic. Nothing like Trainspotting. :D. There is a ceiling on the effects as well as withdrawl. I never understood people that get real bad withdrawal. Taking poppy tea 3 days in a row causes a much worse withdrawal than a year on kratom at 20 gr a day.

The lack of dangerous respiratory problems and they way it can cover some withdrawal from heavier opiates really is a miracle as froglegs mentioned.

While on it's own kratom withdrawal (for me) happens quick and subsides quick in a few days. Then a week of tiredness. But compared to when I quit poppy tea after two years it much milder. I was sick for a month coming off a large poppy tea habit in 2000. Vomiting, restless, absolutely horrible and dramatic experience. Kratom doesn't do that when I stop. Sneezing is annoying though. But I will take it over a bad withdrawal.

 

[Thejackal5654]

I have shoveled in excess of 50 gr a day in the past. However going CT was an annoyance. When I got down to 12 gr a day stopping was no more than sneezes, teary eyed and lethargic. Nothing like Trainspotting. :D. There is a ceiling on the effects as well as withdrawl. I never understood people that get real bad withdrawal. Taking poppy tea 3 days in a row causes a much worse withdrawal than a year on kratom at 20 gr a day.

The lack of dangerous respiratory problems and they way it can cover some withdrawal from heavier opiates really is a miracle as froglegs mentioned.

While on it's own kratom withdrawal (for me) happens quick and subsides quick in a few days. Then a week of tiredness. But compared to when I quit poppy tea after two years it much milder. I was sick for a month coming off a large poppy tea habit in 2000. Vomiting, restless, absolutely horrible and dramatic experience. Kratom doesn't do that when I stop. Sneezing is annoying though. But I will take it over a bad withdrawal.

Haha, my thoughts exactly... When I dumped my long term sub habit I thought "ehhhhhhh, I'm gonna big dick this shit, this ain't gonna be nothing", trying that whole "mindset" thing.. yeeeaahhhhh... that didn't quite work out and after about 2-3 days of not sleeping I'm calling everyone under the sun "hey man... can you find any benzos"... of course they couldn't... lol. This time a buddy came over and just happened to see my overflowing "in case of emergency" stash and said "goddamn dude!", to which I replied, "yea.... not making that mistake again".

But to honestly even call this "withdrawal" is insane... Maybe people that go straight to kratom with no other hard opiate experience have things differently.... It seems people that've had real habits get off easily on K while opiate naive people seem to get it a little worse while stopping... Is it really worse or does it just seem that bad to them for never experiencing a real deal good time detox.... Who knows?

 

[Effect]

Can't believe no one's mentioned this.... It's the gabapentin, OP. Takes away all withdrawal at high doses for a short time. Drop the gaba and you'll see where I'm coming from in around 6-12hrs when it's really dwindling down in your system....

I saw at least 2 posts mention it might be the gabapentin. As for myself, I've never experienced much relief from taking gabapentin during heroin WD at least. I've never felt much in the way of recreational effects from it either.

 

[RedLeader]

I can relate to the OP. I have gone stretches of doing 20+g for weeks on end and the only withdrawal symptom I ever experience is insomnia. I can eat, go to work, go the gym and lift hard, etc and I feel essentially normal. I am definitely NOT immune to real opiate withdrawal and I am perhaps open to the idea that I have just experienced such awful heroin withdrawal that maybe I don't even notice this? I dunno, I guess I admit that kratom lets me off easy. I don't even want to think about how much of that gross shit I would have to go through to cause withdrawal. Makes me dry heave just imagining..

 

[LucidSDreamr]

^ I would agree for the most part, its not a shitting your pants writhing in pain type of withdrawal.

The insomnia is there for sure. The thing I really hate it not being able to sit at a desk and read or write. I can do all kinds of physical work, but the physical anxiety/RLS type symptoms are too much too allow for sedentary work and it totally destroys my productivity.

 

[RedLeader]

^ Ya, I don't get any of that with kratom. Definitely no RLS or fidgeting. And the only depression I get is depression over money spent or just having used it at all. It's not that soul-crushinf depression that comes with stopping real opiates.

Ya, only insomnia, which is bad on like days 3-6 no kratom. But even then it may be insomnia due to fear of insomnia, and not actual insomnia due to withdrawal.