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  • AADD Moderators: swilow | Vagabond696

Quantity Of Mdma In A Pill

grooverider

Bluelighter
Joined
Mar 9, 2004
Messages
3
is there any way in the near future we will be able to find this out without dropping one? Is lab testing going to be a possibility in this country, does anyone know? It would be fantastic to get to the stage where each pill could be classified by the quantity /dose in it, I have bought quite a few recently that all test black but have LOW doses of great mdma, it sucks!
 
As you've pointed out, reagents cannot determine the quantity of active substance within a pill. Enlighten was formed for a number of reasons, one of those was to help assist in the implementation of a testing facility where pills could be laboratory analysed (GCMS) to positively identify what substances were contained in submitted pills.

This is drawing closer to a reality each year, but depending on the circumstances, I wouldn’t hold your breath for pills to be analysed and the active amount of each substance released. It may be the case that this does happen, however we won’t know until it occurs. For my mind it is a optional extra as such, it would be nice, but the main focus is the establishment of a GCMS testing means.
 
I don't wish to sound like I'm speaking for Enlighten or anything, but as I see it there are some problems which accompany a lab style set-up testing facility, particularly if this is to be mobile; van or truck setup.



Expense and Approval: Weighing up the risks

I do expect that GC/MS will eventually come to groups like Enlighten, probably first only as GC, as Time Of Flight MS is still very expensive - but very, very good. It's the one to get for drug analysis.

A thing which should be considered by punters (and which no doubt has been by Enlighten) is that kits possibly draw less focus from authorities. The law says police could at any can time walk in and seize any equipment suspected of being involved in illicit drug testing.

While testing involves a few kits and basic testing gear, the risks involved in losing "everything" are relatively small. It is even possible that such actions may by viewed advantageous towards the HR call; the media coverage likely to follow such an incident and all.

But if we are talking about a state of the art (SOTA) auto-sample/injection GC-MS - perhaps a commercial setup fine-tuned for drug analysis - then the consequences of a loss are far greater. SOTA GC/MS used in this way may very possibly increase susceptibility to being busted.

That could involve seizure of the equipment; not just a few hundred dollars worth of reagents, but perhaps $250,000 dollars worth of van, equipment and gases. While it might seem unlikely the group would lose everything forever, depending upon the objectives of those initiating the action and public response etc, it could even be worse. Records could be ordered for presentation and the group might be caught in a tight position. Unlikely I know, but nevertheless something which should be thought about.

The Additional NATA element

Several additional expenses accompany the operation of equipment like a SOTA GC/MS. To attain any official credit - even with a brand new machine - requires NATA accreditation. An informed colleague remarked yesterday that a typical, fully equipment laboratory costs about $200,000 to get approved. While a mobile lab wouldn't be that extensive, it would no-doubt require that NATA fly in the experts, no matter where they are located. The applicant naturally pays all expenses. Return checks by approving officers are normal in a typical application, let alone one involving an unusual setup. I would imagine that to carry around a large tank of hydrogen - much more susceptible to leakage due to the size of the H2 molecule compared to something like propane - would required expensive regulators and gas lines, permitting movement and vibration associated with road travel.

Standards, standards, and more standards

A second consideration is analytical standards (pure solutions). How does Enlighten obtain these? While very small concentrations may be all that required - far less than an active dose - these do require a license to purchase and possess, and there probably isn't a clause in existence that permits for non specified locality. The controls associated with such permits are very tight and do not normally allow for drugs to be moved about.


Therefore, in light of those difficulties, it may be more appropriate to source a second hand GC and use it without standards to confirm or otherwise, a test result achieved using reagents. This would improve the resolving power of the kits enormously, permitting the identification of masking chemicals, and where more than one active ingredient is present. Techniques could be developed (practice-practice) for distinguishing things like a PMA and MDMA combo. Of course, an accurate (scientifically acceptable) determination of quantity wouldn't be possible.

Running costs; more than just kilowatts/hour.

Also, and perhaps the most limiting factors in operating a GC, are the associated operational costs. GC requires a variety of gases if intended to be used to it's complete ability. Even if this is restricted to Hydrogen and Air, the cost of GC pure H is high at around $800-00 per refill and a few 100 a year in bottle rental. If unpure air or H is used, results become inaccurate and the column may become permanently damaged.

There are also the costs of new or alternative columns. Newer machines use expensive coils of a narrow internal diameter and long length. These require replacement if a different stationary phase is desirable. Older GC's use a glass tubing column made from a coil of tubing filled with a powder which acts as the stationary phase. These can be emptied and refilled with a different compound, making them somewhat more economical than the newer more effective types.

However, these components are extremely fragile. So handling and packaging must be done with the utmost care, particularly when a mobile setup would possibly be travelling on bumpy, remote roads.


Conclusion

While all this might sound incredibly negative I believe most of the requirements involved in setting up are attainable, even factoring in setup costs mentioned. But there are many obstacles to overcome if lab testing is to be incorporated. I haven't touched other very important considerations (such as; who would pay for the operational costs, and if that's to be the punters, then who can afford 50-60$ per tablet?...etc.), and some of these would be tricky to say the least. But, like most groups brave enough to operate on the drive of conscience rather than the dollar, I see the future as being bright, with a second had GC bound to be donated to the cause sooner or later....


Please add to, or correct anything Cowboy Mac. As said, I don't wish to appear to be in any way representing, or speaking for Enlighten with my comments. I am not. They are made only from an interested observer; the points mentioned being applicable to almost any group hoping to setup lab standard analysis of pills.

But, - as I see it - the BIG advantage Enlighten has, is that they have been to some degree "permitted" to operate, even if this is on an unofficial basis. Having come this far, and having achieved respect and acknowledgement from such a wide audience -across the board: from academics to politicians - I see Enlighten as being the perfect vehicle to take this form of user safety to the next level.

Where RaveSafe are the Angels of compassion and understanding, the Red + of the rave battlefield, Enlighten are the axe wielding Strategists of prevention, cutting off the enemy at the gate.

Hope the description is apt enough ..... =D
 
I was more referring to a government program where groups like Enlighten could work with other government organisations to submit samples for GCMS, rather than Enlighten conducting the GCMS ourselves. Hopefully this is not too far off, and I am sure it would be a massive success for both the general public and all organisations involved. Our own GCMS would be a wonderful asset, however for many reasons, including those you have listed, it is not practical at this time.
Where RaveSafe are the Angels of compassion and understanding, the Red + of the rave battlefield, Enlighten are the axe wielding Strategists of prevention, cutting off the enemy at the gate.
haha, sounds like something from Middle Earth! Realistically it's a lot more boring, a lot slower, with less bloodshed. =D
 
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I was more referring to a government program where groups like Enlighten could work with other government organisations to submit samples for GCMS, rather than Enlighten conducting the GCMS ourselves.

Oh well, thought I might have a second hand machine to donate sometime soon. But as for second hand operators - they're a lot harder to come by at scientific auctions ;)
 
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