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Opioids Purely hypothetical, how much of an opiate would kill a person with no tolerance?

polarthedog

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May 30, 2021
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That sounds horrible man, I guess I’m not the only one, most people seem to talk about other withdrawal symptoms, i wonder why, I mean the anxiety and depression are always horrible, but the. Ightmares are way worse IMO
 

Ganjcat

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Apr 13, 2013
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I just re read the title and it does sound dodgey still come on op you can be honest with us has the misses become to much of a burden or has she been unfaithful don't waste the morphine on her bro send it to me and I'll get rid of the body no questions asked ;)
 

Ganjcat

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Apr 13, 2013
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Basically, the reason why I’m asking is because after a long long break, I’musing again, and the main point of getting high on opiates is to nod. (For me). When I was nodding off poppy said years ago, I would take 12 medium raw pods at the end and eat them to nod. I was semi suicidal at the time, and I liked how it was kinda like playing Russian roulette inthat each pods strength is different than the next pods strength, so even though I’m taking twelve pods, that might still be enough to kill me. I’m no longer suicidal, but now going back tomusing without being suicidal, I’m noticing that it’s harder to nod, because I’m too careful, so my dose Doesent get high enough to nod. I was hoping someone could give me a solution other than throwing caution to the wind and just taking a handful with a bunch of other drugs like I used to do. That’s why I’m asking about bupe, because I have pretty much an unlimited supply of bupe, and it only takes about 0.25 mg sublingual to get me high if I take it with my kratom. I was wanting to know I forgot I could go ahead and take half a mg rectally all at once without risk of od. And btw, I’ve found that at doses below 2 mgs, I can still get high off of other opiates
Well sounds like your in the same boat as me if your literally just seeking to nod just smoke heroin I get ten ten real potent stuff and real cheap to real cheap I can get 3 bags of it for a tenner it's so harsh but strong as well good stuff fucking prick wasn't on yesterday though and I had 5+ sales for him total that day meaning 6-8 bags for me oh well hopefully I'll get that text today if I do I'll be at his in 5 min xD
 

Pink817

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Joined
Apr 18, 2016
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7
Basically, the reason why I’m asking is because after a long long break, I’musing again, and the main point of getting high on opiates is to nod. (For me). When I was nodding off poppy said years ago, I would take 12 medium raw pods at the end and eat them to nod. I was semi suicidal at the time, and I liked how it was kinda like playing Russian roulette inthat each pods strength is different than the next pods strength, so even though I’m taking twelve pods, that might still be enough to kill me. I’m no longer suicidal, but now going back tomusing without being suicidal, I’m noticing that it’s harder to nod, because I’m too careful, so my dose Doesent get high enough to nod. I was hoping someone could give me a solution other than throwing caution to the wind and just taking a handful with a bunch of other drugs like I used to do. That’s why I’m asking about bupe, because I have pretty much an unlimited supply of bupe, and it only takes about 0.25 mg sublingual to get me high if I take it with my kratom. I was wanting to know I forgot I could go ahead and take half a mg rectally all at once without risk of od. And btw, I’ve found that at doses below 2 mgs, I can still get high off of other opiates
I overdosed off of .20 of heroin after being in jail and off all opiates for about 11 months. It’s suspected that batch of H I OD’d on had fentanyl in it though. And if fentanyl is a factor in this equation then a granule of fent the size of a couple granules of sugar can kill you or less even.
 

polarthedog

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Joined
May 30, 2021
Messages
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I overdosed off of .20 of heroin after being in jail and off all opiates for about 11 months. It’s suspected that batch of H I OD’d on had fentanyl in it though. And if fentanyl is a factor in this equation then a granule of fent the size of a couple granules of sugar can kill you or less even.
Thanks, but I’m actually just drinking poppy tea, I do that so that I don’t have to buy from drug dealers, drug dealers are unpredictable, and hey do shit like lace their drugs with fent.
That’s fucked up that that happened to you though, I’m sorry :(
 

polarthedog

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May 30, 2021
Messages
1,160
I just re read the title and it does sound dodgey still come on op you can be honest with us has the misses become to much of a burden or has she been unfaithful don't waste the morphine on her bro send it to me and I'll get rid of the body no questions asked ;)
No loll, just.no to all of that
 

nznity

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Jan 24, 2017
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80mg of IV Morphine has been reported as the minimum dose to kill an average sized adult with zero tolerance.
That was my breakfast,Lunch AND dinner for years on end.
Now I'm stuck with shitty Tramadol.
Miss those days when i would wake up to a 100mg fat shot of pure vials of morphine hydrochloride.
 

nznity

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Jan 24, 2017
Messages
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Location
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That sounds horrible man, I guess I’m not the only one, most people seem to talk about other withdrawal symptoms, i wonder why, I mean the anxiety and depression are always horrible, but the. Ightmares are way worse IMO
I hate the fucking horrible, Almost vivid fucking nightmares from wds.
 

F.U.B.A.R.

Sr. Moderator: BDD, OD, EADD, LAVA
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Oh God, yeah. I used to have extreme nightmares - like disturbing to the point where I didn't understand how my brain could even come up with such stuff - and I'd wake up every couple of hours, drenched in a cold sweat.

'Having nightmares' implies you actually got some sleep. How the hell did you manage that? 😀
 

nznity

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Now that i remember i once tried to kill myself with 260mg morph IV, 1.5mg of fent,40mg of oxycontin AND 5mg of Xanax. My initial intention was to tAke 20mg clonazepam instead of alprazolam but for some odd reason the pharmacist didn't want to Sell me clones, he offered me 0.5 alprazolam instead. If he would have sold me the clonas instead of the Alps I'm pretty surei wouldnt be here
 

polarthedog

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May 30, 2021
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'Having nightmares' implies you actually got some sleep. How the hell did you manage that? 😀
Lay in bed, force yourself to be still, and stay like that for over an hour with your eyes closed, lol it’s really hard ime, and for your effort, you will be awarded 5 minutes of nightmares
 

dalpat077

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Oct 14, 2019
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LD50's are given by mg/kg
While the above quote is quite correct: don't take it out of context when it comes to Fentanyl (this in reference to anyone that happens to come across the above i.e. not questioning the member who posted at all).

I spent months researching this shit last year and it only occurred to me, after keenly watching this thread since its inception and seeing the above quote, that the LD50 of Fentanyl is NEVER given in mg/kg in humans.

The LD50 of Fentanyl in humans is either reported as being unknown (or untested) or generally accepted to be 2mg total per human. And because it's never otherwise stated one has to assume that said LD50 of 2mg in humans is applicable to IV administration.

Take a look at any website or publication or study you like (doesn't matter whether it's a harm reduction website or some research paper or anything else of that nature) and see if I'm wrong.

Also note that the above all refers to Fentanyl itself and NOT to its more potent analogs.

The below taken directly (unedited) from Wikipedia. But the same information is regurgitated wherever you look.

"The intravenous dose causing 50% of opioid-naive experimental subjects to die (LD50) is "3 mg/kg in rats, 1 mg/kg in cats, 14 mg/kg in dogs, and 0.03 mg/kg in monkeys."[69] The LD50 in mice has been given as 6.9 mg/kg by intravenous administration, 17.5 mg/kg intraperitoneally, 27.8 mg/kg by oral administration.[70] The LD50 in humans is unknown,[71][72] but a lethal dose for the average person is estimated to be 2 mg.[55][verification needed]"

Why bother to mention any of this?

Because it occurred to me that somebody may overlook the above little nuggets of information as they pertain to Fentanyl, score 1 000mg (1g) of Fentanyl, divide by their body weight, and arrive at an LD50 that's far higher (deeming any result slightly below such mathematical calculation as being safe).

As an example: let's assume that "the average person" refers to your average American white male where it is purported to be that, currently, said average American white male weighs 90kg. The LD50 of Fentanyl in said average person is therefore 0.022mg/kg NOT 2mg/kg. Ironically and in my very rough calculations and assumptions very close to monkeys (apparently).

While the above may seem very obvious to some: easy mistake to make, to the untrained or unwary eye, because of the way the LD50 of Fentanyl in humans is reported or published.

For the sake of interest here's a decent explanation of the meaning of LD ("Lethal Dose") and LC ("Lethal Concentration") and different methods of expressing toxicity:


What's interesting to note though is the mathematical gymnastics and assumptions made when attempting to estimate the equivalent LD50 values in other animals vs. humans.

Why chiming in on this particular thread and topic? Mainly because I feel like a right royal cunt for never having noticed this before. Not to mention an experiment that's either gone totally sideways or these values, as they pertain to Fentanyl, are hyped to the nth degree (take this latter part with a pinch of salt, for now, and trust the science as presented though).


If you're really into this shit:



And if you want to do your head in then check out the mental and mathematical gymnastics in this PDF:

A quantitative structure – toxicity relationship of drugs on rat
 
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ChemicallyEnhanced

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Joined
Apr 29, 2018
Messages
6,236
Location
UK
While the above quote is quite correct: don't take it out of context when it comes to Fentanyl (this in reference to anyone that happens to come across the above i.e. not questioning the member who posted at all).

I spent months researching this shit last year and it only occurred to me, after keenly watching this thread since its inception and seeing the above quote, that the LD50 of Fentanyl is NEVER given in mg/kg in humans.

The LD50 of Fentanyl in humans is either reported as being unknown (or untested) or generally accepted to be 2mg total per human. And because it's never otherwise stated one has to assume that said LD50 of 2mg in humans is applicable to IV administration.

Take a look at any website or publication or study you like (doesn't matter whether it's a harm reduction website or some research paper or anything else of that nature) and see if I'm wrong.

Also note that the above all refers to Fentanyl itself and NOT to its more potent analogs.

The below taken directly (unedited) from Wikipedia. But the same information is regurgitated wherever you look.

"The intravenous dose causing 50% of opioid-naive experimental subjects to die (LD50) is "3 mg/kg in rats, 1 mg/kg in cats, 14 mg/kg in dogs, and 0.03 mg/kg in monkeys."[69] The LD50 in mice has been given as 6.9 mg/kg by intravenous administration, 17.5 mg/kg intraperitoneally, 27.8 mg/kg by oral administration.[70] The LD50 in humans is unknown,[71][72] but a lethal dose for the average person is estimated to be 2 mg.[55][verification needed]"

Why bother to mention any of this?

Because it occurred to me that somebody may overlook the above little nuggets of information as they pertain to Fentanyl, score 1 000mg (1g) of Fentanyl, divide by their body weight, and arrive at an LD50 that's far higher (deeming any result slightly below such mathematical calculation as being safe).

As an example: let's assume that "the average person" refers to your average American white male where it is purported to be that, currently, said average American white male weighs 90kg. The LD50 of Fentanyl in said average person is therefore 0.022mg/kg NOT 2mg/kg. Ironically and in my very rough calculations and assumptions very close to monkeys (apparently).

While the above may seem very obvious to some: easy mistake to make, to the untrained or unwary eye, because of the way the LD50 of Fentanyl in humans is reported or published.

For the sake of interest here's a decent explanation of the meaning of LD ("Lethal Dose") and LC ("Lethal Concentration") and different methods of expressing toxicity:


What's interesting to note though is the mathematical gymnastics and assumptions made when attempting to estimate the equivalent LD50 values in other animals vs. humans.

Why chiming in on this particular thread and topic? Mainly because I feel like a right royal cunt for never having noticed this before. Not to mention an experiment that's either gone totally sideways or these values, as they pertain to Fentanyl, are hyped to the nth degree (take this latter part with a pinch of salt, for now, and trust the science as presented though).


If you're really into this shit:



And if you want to do your head in then check out the mental and mathematical gymnastics in this PDF:

A quantitative structure – toxicity relationship of drugs on rat

I was just referring to the use of LD50 in general, not in terms of any one specific drug or substance. But, yes, good point about Fentanyl.
 

dalpat077

Bluelighter
Joined
Oct 14, 2019
Messages
1,831
I was just referring to the use of LD50 in general, not in terms of any one specific drug or substance. But, yes, good point about Fentanyl.
I realized that from the get go for sure. Just making sure a-n-others do as well.

Like I said: it never even occurred to me before until I saw your post. And fuck knows the number of time I've quoted that same LD50 for Fentanyl without even thinking twice about it and just ASSUMING that anybody that read the shit would know that it's a TOTAL.

Dunno. Maybe it's just me. I suppose one could argue that if something doesn't specifically state "mg/kg" then it's to be taken as a whole (test subject or whatever). Seems like it could be a slippery slope making that type of assumption though (some website makes an error of commission or omission and wham!).

The rest of my shit makes a good case for the ethics of testing substances on human subjects (yeah, yeah: no comments from the peanut gallery are required or necessary)! :ROFLMAO: Some LD50 values vary so greatly between rats and mice and humans (estimated) that I don't even see the value in the comparisons. Even with something as dumb as Methanol (have a sixty page paper on this very topic I shit you not).

Then again: I only have an "Internet" or "Armchair" PhD in this shit so who am I to argue with it all. That said: I'm a step ahead of the officially qualified in that human trials and experimentation are sanctioned and ongoing! :ROFLMAO:
 
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psynce of sound

Bluelighter
Joined
Aug 14, 2014
Messages
390
How long is a piece of string?

There are so many variables to this, making it incredibly difficult to answer.
You could start with the LD:50 and adjust it from there based on how much the tolerant person can consume to achieve just threshold effects and work from there.
 
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