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Opioids Pulmonary Talcosis from IV abuse of oral medications. How much is too much?

boneknuckleskin

Greenlighter
Joined
Jul 16, 2012
Messages
11
I crossed a line I never thought I would cross and IV'd 8 Roxane Morphine IR 30mg tablets with the imprint of 54 262. I filtered the first 4 with just cotton and later 4 more with a 0.22 micron wheel syringe filter. I have had pretty extreme guilt and remorse over doing this, but also have been having a feeling of suffocation / “air hunger” / as if I can't get a satisfying breath. Have I done enough to cause real damage or am I just over-reacting? I do have a previous history of IV crystal meth abuse which went on and off for about 3 years up until 6 months ago, but I'm not sure if that poses the same risk for pulmonary talcosis as the pills do, but I did not feel this way until after doing the pills. I am under a significant amount of stress with the loss of the job, recent arrest and pending legal troubles, kicked out of school (senior, age 32), loss of home and living with family, etc. I know we're not all healthcare professionals but I know at least some of you have some experience IV'ing pills — and perhaps even these particular pills — or you know people that do. Im just looking for reassurances or the cold hard facts here. I will never shoot a pill again. Period. Im currently finishing a taper off opiates and starting NA, attending church — anything it takes to get my sanity and sobriety back. I don't have health insurance at the moment so seeing a doctor or pulmonologist is not going to happen right away but I’ve applied through healcare.gov. Thanks for reading, guys. Stay safe & healthy.
 
Well it is more prevelant with pill use than meth use, because most pills have talc as an ingredient, whereas only some people use a cut that has talc in it.

How long has it been since your last dose? If symptoms persists for more than 1 or 2 days, or your breathing worsens, go to the er. You don't have to have insurance for an er visit..


- Hopeless Soul
 
Get to the hospital now. You might have a pulminary embolism that will kill you. Go get checked out right now. 911 probably won't help, but get to the hospital NOW. Forget the two day shit. Just go now.
 
I did 4 pills with cotton about 5 -7 days ago. I did 4 or 5 more with micron filtering about 3 - 5 days ago. My last dose was about 3 days ago. If I go, I'll go in the morning. I have to go to the ER that I don't work at (there's only 2 in my town).
 
^ Yeah if it's been that long, I'd definetely get it checked out. What % of your breathing is inhibited?


-hs
 
I feel at times I can get a good satisfying breath, I would say I get two of these a minute, the rest or shallow and if I try to breathe deeply, I feel like I can't full chest expansion. It causes me to become anxious. I'm not having any secondary symptoms such as significant pain, light-headedness, etc. General soreness around my thorax is present but that could be due to my straining. I'm trying to practice diaphragmatic breathing. I would say my breathing feels about 40% compromised overall. I'm take xanax with helps maybe 10% with the symptoms - sort of minimal effect. It just helps me from panicking due to the "air hunger." I can mostly speak in full sentences but and I can walk without any major problem, though I am breaking my sentences into "chunks" at times - again I'm not sure if any of this has a psychogenic component. I signed up for healthcare last night, but could not make my first premium payment yet. I will call Blue Cross in the morning and attempt to make this payment to start coverage then go to the ER for testing. If testing does not indicate a real pulmonary cause, I'm going to ask to be placed in a detox unit where I can withdrawal safely and get treatment for depression/anxiety as well. Being a healthcare professional if I begin to show signs that indicate something more sinister such as a pulmonary embolism I will get to the ER immediately. I'm just wondering if 8 pills is enough to do damage, I hear about people shooting hundreds perhaps even thousands with negligible complications. Thank you for your replies.
 
I'm just wondering if 8 pills is enough to do damage, I hear about people shooting hundreds perhaps even thousands with negligible complications. Thank you for your replies.

Yes, we had someone snort opana, I think, for the first time and he got pneumonia and had to stay in the hospital for a few days.

Hope you did go to the ER

Any updates ?
 
Well, yes, 8 pills is unlikely to cause talcosis. As kleinerkiffer says, there's always that outlier though

Even before reading your update, my first reaction was that you're experiencing anxiety due to the knowledge that you read about dangers of snorting pills. I still think probably anxiety is the most likely cause; however, I can in no way diagnose you over the Internet and as this is a harm reduction website the standard response is going to be when in doubt get thyself to the ER. As that certainly would never hurt, and in many cases helps


Now, let me also say that if you're in the US, we have been having record horrible air quality. People who have not ever had asthma are showing up in the ER with breathing issues. So it could be a little anxiety, a little asthma like issues, whatever. I think that you're getting insurance and going to get checked is good. In the meantime, do the best you can to just "forget" about breathing and do it normally, get your mind occupied.

And I think your plan of getting insured and going to ER and if there is no pulmonary issues going into a detox unit is a great idea. You want your life back and to be sober and maybe this incident is what you needed to kickstart it.

I'm assuming you're in US as you mentioned healthcare.gov. If for some reason you couldn't get covered don't let that stop you from getting checked. ER has to see you regardless of ability to pay. Depending on income you can file for medical assistance (who back dates coverage 90 days), or else hospitals have plans in place to write off treatment, you just have to talk with them and they can help you apply.


I hope by now you're feeling better.
 
Update today is I went and bought a pulse oximeter from Walmart form $38, my oxygen saturation is ~96%-97% so I know I'm not actively dying. I called healthcare.gov to pay my first premium and active my insurance so that I can go get the CT scan and into detox without any problems and they did not have my file complete, they will tomorrow though they said so at that point I will pay the premiums and go to ER. I almost went today, as I have been smothering most the day but Xanax does help relieve at least the panic associated with the sensation and calms me down quite a bit now. If my pulmonary function and imaging turns out normal in the next few days then I will attempt to be put back on 2mg Klonopin at bedtime which is what I use to take to keep me from having severe panic attacks.

Here is a list of inactive ingredients in the tablets I shot, for those of you just joining us it's Roxane 30mg IR morphine tablets imprint 54 262:

Silicon Dioxide (Colloidal)
Corn Starch
Microcrystalline Cellulose
Stearic Acid
Pre gelatinized Starch


So, I'm not even certain that talc are in these tablets, however, the jury is still out on what damage the other ingredients can do (based on my reading). I will update everyone after I have medical testing done.

To anyone thinking about shooting tablets and reading this: DON'T. I did not heed the warnings of others on here to not do this and did it anyway, and I fully and completely regret that decision. Take them orally, plug them, but do not put them directly into your circulation. All your body's veins run back to ward the heart where they pass through the right side of the heart chambers, which then pumps them into the pulmonary vasculature where gas exchange takes place. This is where insoluble particles get lodged permanently as the pulmonary vasculature becomes microscopic in size.
 
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If you have access to clonazepam then use that now-it is much longer acting than Xanax and IMO does not have the rebound anxiety that Xanax seems to have. Xanax works well for break through anxiety but for me even clonazepam could stop the worst of panic attacks in under five minutes if I insufflated it. The pulse ox was a good idea btw but that only details so much so stick with your plan to get checked out.
 
This is just an update in case anyone comes across the thread at a later time and wants to know the disposition of things. I did not get checked out. I kept taking the Lexapro / Xanax and my breathing improved over subsequent days and is close to baseline now. I have an appointment with a psychiatrist and I'm going to inquire about getting into a program tomorrow. I believe my symptoms were caused by anxiety and exacerbated by panic attacks. I was tapering off morphine and under a lot of stress. But the moral of the story remains the same for me: just don't shoot pills.
 
Wait, you filtered the pills. Then why did you have problems? Shooting pills (from pharmacy) is a hell lot safer than street drugs cut with God knows what. I just don't get it.
 
^ He's had a panic attack and shot drugs that cause respiratory depression, when you have a panic attack, it's easy to develop around a false theory you create. Meth users develop theories of having a heart attack, and every symptom they have is in line with that belief, except they don't have a heart attack and their mind is playing tricks on them.

In order to feel pleasure from dopamine enhancing drugs, the brain needs to lower the activity of certain areas that distract from the pleasure, like memory or the cortex. An area that is also temporarily lost is a cortex portion responsible of behavioral habits and body language. A person high on drugs might find himself never touching his hair when usually the person is always arranging his hair with his right hand, not smiling when usually the person smiles, it can also be things like closing the toilet lead when the person normally always leaves it open. You are in a position where you have to think "how did I used to do this? Jees I'm gona appear weird" for things that you normally do without thinking.

Sometimes the cortex activity is so low that you stop seeing the relation between the naked women in the porn, and you squeezing your dick. In these times, I can just close the porn, and actually, closing my eyes enhances the sensations and I really see no relation between what I feel and women. I feel it like a soft 3 dimensional space that bends inwards as I squeeze, and I just stick with that space and it's nothing more than that. That's because at that time I am in nucleus accumbens, the connection is direct, and whatever routes that got me there are irrelevant and they all vanish, the cortex really stays out of this, and so everything becomes extremely irrational.

I can tell between those states even when I am deep inside them I know where I am and what I need to do. I also know I cannot show up for work or else I am going to scare the living shit out of everyone. And this is nothing to be ashamed of, if you don't understand what's happening you might be ashamed, otherwise, you know you deactivated those regions, you don't have your whole brain with you, you understand that, things are good. This is something not many people can do, if you don't know where you're at, what to expect from your state and how to identify symptoms of that state as being normal, you can easily panic and things can go south because you no longer know where you're at.

This comes with practice, I have lost count but I personally have been in such a state between 3,000 and 5,000 times, each time for an average duration of 16 hours. So it does take a lot of practice.

The worst with these novice drug user panic attacks is that you find yourself stuck looking for clues to validate your theory, of heart attack, embolism, you name it...instead of enjoying the high. And this is how you can break out of that panic, by comparing what you planned to do before taking the drug with what you are doing now. You didn't take the drug to become detective Colombo...so why are you acting like him? Probably because your brain is failing you, but you have the power not to fail yourself even in that state. Even if the panic occurs, just sit there and notice it, as if it was another sensation, don't engage in it, don't interact with it, just observe, 5 seconds later it's gone.

It can't stay unless you feed it something. You should be feeding your pleasure not your fear, so be conscious of that, if you only observe it, as a phenomenon, it will pass before you even know it. Don't relate to it. You have nothing in common with it. It's just you, the pleasure and nothing else. So the smart ass in you that's making theories, give him a rest, he is like an actor on your stage, toss a tomato and make him leave. He is just a monkey. He's not you. The real you, is that which observes that process take place. He might have many tricks say "hey look you don't breath properly, it's the shot! It damaged your lungs, see I make sense!" Treat that voice as another phenomenon.
 
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Wait, you filtered the pills. Then why did you have problems? Shooting pills (from pharmacy) is a hell lot safer than street drugs cut with God knows what. I just don't get it.

My problems were psychological as far as I know. I did not get evaluated by a doctor but my symptoms improved on psychiatric medications. While shooting pills may be safer than street drugs insofar as you know the chemical and you know the dose, I disagree that it safer in regards to pulmonary complications such as talcois or microemboli. The adulterant/binder to active drug ratio is much higher in crushed pills than it is with dope. That is why destruction of the microscopic pulmonary vasculature is seen almost exclusively in the pill-injecting population - even decades after the fact - and it is rarely seen in users of other IV drugs.
 
^ Did you have that much knowledge on pulmonary complications before you shot those pills? You know what my next question is right? Lol.
 
Those pills gel collected in his main arteries from shooting then. Some dude on here said the doctors told him that his heart attack was directly related to him shooting the morphine er and even regular pills. They tell him it's the gel mecanism, building up in his arteries . Those words would send me straight to what you"ve been doing and symptoms. Some symptoms are real. That's why I have to go straight there if a person remotely sounds like those we're actual symptoms, I would go there due to my experience. At least eat a aspirin or two to thin your blood out, if you can do it if symptoms come back.
 
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^ Did you have that much knowledge on pulmonary complications before you shot those pills? You know what my next question is right? Lol.

Yes, more or less. Addicts don't always act with their best interests at heart.

The day after I injected the first two pills I developed chest pain while lying in bed. I took as aspirin and drove to a local cardiac hospital ER. The pain subsided about 40 minutes just so I didn't check in. I had a routine check-up a few days ago where they checked my cholesterol. It's off the charts, 500 mg/dL. Now I'm on medicine. My arteries are already pretty clogged up with lipids, no sense in adding other particulates to the circulation by shooting pills. I'm still taking the morphine orally. Going to a methadone clinic tomorrow for my first visit. Hoping to take back some control of my life.
 
Yes, more or less. Addicts don't always act with their best interests at heart.

The day after I injected the first two pills I developed chest pain while lying in bed. I took as aspirin and drove to a local cardiac hospital ER. The pain subsided about 40 minutes just so I didn't check in. I had a routine check-up a few days ago where they checked my cholesterol. It's off the charts, 500 mg/dL. Now I'm on medicine. My arteries are already pretty clogged up with lipids, no sense in adding other particulates to the circulation by shooting pills. I'm still taking the morphine orally. Going to a methadone clinic tomorrow for my first visit. Hoping to take back some control of my life.

That's not going to lower your cholesterol though right? Are you sure you're not taking the easy way out? I think your problem is whatever brought your cholesterol up that high, and opioids didn't do that.
 
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Wait, you filtered the pills. Then why did you have problems? Shooting pills (from pharmacy) is a hell lot safer than street drugs cut with God knows what. I just don't get it.

a) filtering pills with cotton is nowhere near safe. Lots of harmful insoluble particles can get into the solution. You need to use a micron filter to make it even remotely safe.
b) shooting pills is incredibly dangerous. Just because they are pharma-grade drugs, doesnt mean they are safe for injection.
Far from it. Shooting pills is extremely risky behaviour - people lose limbs (and worse) doing that.

Please don't spread misinformation on bluelight.
We exist to educate people on harm reduction practices. If you're not sure about something, please don't state it as fact.
Saying "shooting pills (from pharmacy) is a hell of a lot safer than street drugs cut with god knows what" - simply isn't true, and leads me to assume that you are trolling.
 
^ Correct, if I wanted to shoot pills I would do an ion-exchange resin chromatography with a thick, 1 meter long column and let at least 10% of the product go to waste before recovering the pure compound. Microfilter is not enough. I doubt he's trolling tho he's a straight up guy.
 
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