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Public vs Private Schools

Cosmic Mist said:
A very dear friend of mine was actually asked to leave the school because she wore nail polish to school and had three earings instead of the regulation two . It would have been easy for her to simply comform to their perception of "right" but i think there are better things to be worrying about than things like this, things that are purely asthetic.

they were allowed THREE earrings?! omg i want to go there. no really i do. we're only allowed "one pair of plain silver or gold studs. only to be worn in the lobe of each ear".. *still shoked at the idea of 2 legal arrings*

i hate the stupid uniform rules and everything. but i can understand where the schools are coming from. i mean they have an image and a code of conduct to uphold. Students are seen as representatives of the school all around the community. and when they are wearing the uniform they are eactly that- a representative for the school. If anyone has tried to avoid uniform rules its me, but now i can understand where my schol is coming from. i mean my school has a good reputation in the community (maybe its gained a prolific stereotype for being stuck up little rich girls) but how the students are presented really demonstrates that it isa good school. its the same s in the work place they have an image to uphold and staff of the company do it.

the students represent the school. the school wants to appear like a good school, with lots of girls who take pride in their school and therefore their uniform... so that more people send their kids there. Ultimatley achool is jsut like a business i spose... you have to get kids there, just like a store needs customers and a business needs clients. and ultimatley the first impression a parent will get with be from the presentation of the school- be that students, grounds or facilities....
 
i will second (or third) the sentiments of 1234. Why are private schools being publicly funded?? That has been my main problem with them all along... :\
 
I don't know much about the funding but I agree that all students should have equal opportunties in regards to their education and that public schools should get more funding. I only had a bit of time but i found some articles regarding governement funding that might be of interest. Here and here

Federal Opposition education spokeswoman Jenny Macklin says the ALP believes a base level of funding should be provided for each student, regardless of whether they are in public or private education.

I think this might be the reason that private school get funding regardless of the fact that parents are already paying the school shit loads.

This link explains why private schools have the right to government funding. It also has some tables regarding non-government funding.

Do Australian Governments spend more money on non-government school students
than on government school students ?


NO

The two million students at government schools receive nearly $16 billion in public funding
from Australian Governments, (State/Territory and Federal). The one million students at
non-government schools receive $4 billion in public funding from Australian Governments,
(State/Territory and Federal).

Non-government school parents and their communities pay the remainder of the schooling
cost for non-government school students while also supporting government schooling with
their tax dollars.

Do non-government school students take government funds away from government
schools and students?


NO

On the contrary. The fact is that non-government school parents save governments more than
$ 2.6 billion per year in schooling expenditure which governments would have to find if all
students attended government schools.

Why should non-government school students receive any public funding for
school education?


Because

• all children have a right to education;
• Parents as their first educators have the right to choose the kind of education that shall
be given to their children;
• all students have a right to share equitably in public funds available for schooling;
• governments have a responsibility to ensure equitable treatment for all citizens.
 
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Jubas said:

haha
um whatever.. schooling is available to almost anyone. our rights to decent education are been taken away?! your post sounds as though it was copy/pasted from some radical group.. purely because it sounds like utter bullshit.
[/B]
A SUBSTANDARD schooling is available to anyone (not almost anyone), when in the past there has never been such a divide as there is now, and its getting WORSE. This is why people are leaving the public system in droves.
You disagree that GOOD education in a right? you must.
Haven't you seen the state of public schools, they are sharing textbooks, the paint on the walls is half peeled and the ovals are dustbowls.

O, and your posts said about as much as my dogs shit on a sunday and sounds like you were writing with your toffee nose up its arse. :p

Jubas said:


sigh.. again. i think private and public gets the same overall funding. private gets more funding from federal.. while public gets more funding from the states.. [/B]

That's right you do think don't you, unfortonately not very much. Educate yourself.
 
Originally posted by KraZeeY
That's right you do think don't you, unfortonately not very much. Educate yourself.


Okay, I was really impressed with the level of maturity that's mostly been maintained in this thread, until now. Please refrain from making personal attacks, especially when the comment made does have some basis (read TiTTy's post above). This isn't a discussion to start all-out war between public and private students.
 
ok, i am really starting to feel the need to stick up for public schools and their teachers but firstly i will say this. i know my school is certainly not indicative of the majority of public schools but it was a damn good school and i'm proud of it my school recieved no extra funding for the activities/assets i am about to list, except for maybe some funding grants here and there that they applied for (which any other public (not sure about private) schools could have applied for.

my school had a mixture of kick-arse and shit teachers, but the bulk of teachers really cared for their school and their students and did their utmost to help students in any way they could, especially in the senior years. this included study groups (usually for extension classes held out of school hours and with few students) held at their houses or coffee shops, providing home phone numbers for study assistance and taking part in a mentor program where every year 12 student had a teacher mentor thet they meet with weekly to talk about study, school and just how life was going in general.

as i previously stated, my school had a lot of things that most public schools do not have, but we only had these things and opportunities coz our teachers worked damn hard to get them for us, they weren't handed to us on a silver platter.

*we had a dual control car so students could learn to drive, taught by teachers who gave up their own time.

*two huge ex-army trucks, purchased and restored by a teacher who then donated them to the school.

*several tinnie boats and outboard motors for use by marine studies students who also had a shed full of various fish tanks and resources.

*our own plane built by several teachers and a local plane builder in which aviation studies students used in order to gain their pilots licence.

* and a loud speaker system running through the school which was randomly used by students as a "radio station" to play music during lunch.

add to this some not so material things such as our stage band which was considered one of the best in the state and was constantly going to competitions. our annual swimming carnival parade through the town which was supported and watched by much of the town and business people. and our performance/open nights which we held 4 times a year where we opened our school to the public and showed them our facilities and just what our school, teachers and students offered to the local community.

yes, as you can tell i'm damn proud of my school. our teachers worked damn hard to make our school an enjoyable environment to be in and many of our teachers simply kicked arse.

now in ending my rant i would like to get one simple message across-
public schools rock the kasbah!:D
 
public schools do rock! if i had all the money in the world i would still send my child to a public school!
my only experiance with private school people are the girls i am forced to listen to on the tram... they really piss me off. constantly bitching about their friends going shopping with them looking really 'cheap'. but i spose that's nothing to do with anything..
i obviously went to a public school, the teachers were great, very helpful etc. i think like 45% in my year got over 80 for their TER... can't remember other details but everyone went pretty well. I think that in public schools you do gain more independence...
I really don't see the point in paying so much fricken money on the school when really a lot of the time it comes down to the child. i mean i've heard of a lot of private school people getting very low TERS, and lots of public school people getting really high. of course it works both ways...
but i think what it all boils down to is that private schools have detentions on saturdays!! now that's just cruel...
 
`eternity-dre said:
students DEFINETLY get way more oppurtunities.. in basically everything, be it access to information/knowledge to sporting or out of class activities.

Just curious, but what makes you an authority on the matter?
I won't be commenting on the similarities / differences cos' I know I only experienced one side of the coin.
=Shrugs=
 
hes an authority because hes known me for ages.
I obviously know all. :D
Actually, i refrained from posting in this thread because I wholeheartedly agreed with dre's first post, and felt any contribution by me wouldnt have been any useful.

If it makes any difference, I've been to both private catholic, and an elitist public school. They both offer more opportunities than a regular public school, the elitist school moreso than the catholic one

[edit:] if you ask me how I can compare this to a regular public school, I cant. I can, however, see the differences when watching students walk past, or seeing them and their behaviour at their school.
Its also visible in the students themselves. Knowing that theyre paying a premium, or knowing that they're elite students means they have a greater sense of pride, and involvement with their school.
 
Everyone has a RIGHT to learn and a to have a good education regardless of socio ecconomic background. Why should only the rich get one?
 
doofqueen said:
Everyone has a RIGHT to learn and a to have a good education regardless of socio ecconomic background. Why should only the rich get one?

Hear Hear!
 
doofqueen said:
Everyone has a RIGHT to learn and a to have a good education regardless of socio ecconomic background.

I don't think there is a single person on this board/world who does not agree with this statement. So there is no point trying to make it the debate within this thread.

I just wanted peoples opinions on private vs public schools based on their experiences ect.
 
I wasn't trying to make a debate out of it. I was just making a statement 8(
 
I went to a state school, I'm university educated, earn decent money and am now doing my masters degree. Ok, not such a big deal but my point is, education is what you make it.

There are good and bad state and private schools. I, along with most people, know people like myself, who are doing well with a public school education and know people who didn't get into uni and who aren't doing so well, with a private school education.

That said, my children, if and when I have them, will go to private schools (thats my wish anyway, whether I have the finances is another story).

Why? Because generally speaking they offer more in the way of education, social activities and contacts. Its a fact.

Edit: I do feel there is a huge discrepancy between funding for public and private schools though and it disturbs me that as a rule, more people from private schools are offered university places than public school (someone correct me if I'm wrong though, I've always thought this was the case).

A good education is a right for everyone and certainly everyone is entitled to the same opportunities. Unfortunately though, we don't live in a classless society.
 
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KraZeeY said:
A SUBSTANDARD schooling is available to anyone (not almost anyone), when in the past there has never been such a divide as there is now, and its getting WORSE. This is why people are leaving the public system in droves.
You disagree that GOOD education in a right? you must.
Haven't you seen the state of public schools, they are sharing textbooks, the paint on the walls is half peeled and the ovals are dustbowls.

O, and your posts said about as much as my dogs shit on a sunday and sounds like you were writing with your toffee nose up its arse. :p



That's right you do think don't you, unfortonately not very much. Educate yourself.

firstly,
i think anna was right in what she said re personal attack's. titties' post was highly informative.. and exactly what i was referrring to in general.

i think the divide you mention is being propagated by the media.. i think if the media didn't say so much about it, the divide would be a lot smaller.

now, i don't agree that good education isn't a right. i think it should be a right, but your entire post uses value laden terms which people interpret differently. Good education vs bad education is easy to compare, but where does the line lie? how do you determine a good education? you can't.. its a value laden term.
i've seen the state of public schools, and i can bluntly tell you that 100% of the schools i've seen (numerous - all metro) are NOT like what you describe. The schools you seem to describe sound like those in the outback.. which is a completely different debate. i challenge you to look at state schools a little more closely.
and your comments regarding educating myself were quite pathetic, but as anna said.. its another issue, so lets ignore it.
 
The funding does not account for state government money for the state school system.

nice to see them at least acknowledging that!
 
Peter Doherty, Barry McGaw and Brendan O'Loghlin: Level the learning field

April 30, 2004

FIFTY years ago, we were among the first students at Indooroopilly State High School, in an inner western suburb of Brisbane. This was the first expansion of the Queensland secondary system after World WarII. Students came from as far away as Inala, the "struggle town" that Pauline Hanson made famous. Some were recently arrived immigrants, and many were the children of parents with little education.

In some ways, Indooroopilly High was a tough school, but we look back with gratitude to excellent teachers and an outstanding academic experience. Now, half a century later, we worry that it is much more difficult for public schools to provide comparable opportunities.

In Australia, more than 30 per cent of students now attend private schools. The figure in the Netherlands is much higher, with 77 per cent in private schools. But public and private schools in the Netherlands are all publicly funded on the same basis and private schools may not charge fees. They differentiate themselves by their value orientation, religious affiliation or pedagogy, not by resource levels.

In Canada, Catholic schools are part of the public system and are publicly funded. Only 5 per cent of students attend private schools differentiated from the public sector by resource levels, and fewer than half of these students are in private schools that obtain any public support. The Governor-General of Canada, commenting in a recent BBC report on Canadian society, observed that the country has never had a prime minister who attended a private school.

By contrast, Australia is unique in the extent to which non-government schools are able to combine private resources with government funding to achieve a substantial advantage over the public system.

We do not wish to see Australian private schools compromised, nor do we believe that it is possible to turn back the clock to an earlier era. However, resources in public schools need to be raised. We are dismayed to see the original 1960s buildings at Indooroopilly High still in use. That is not true of the private schools that existed in the '50s. They have been transformed with wonderful capital developments. These growing differences among Australian schools matter.

Australia's educational performance is less equitable than that in Canada, Finland, Ireland, Japan, South Korea and Sweden. According to the OECD's Programme for International Student Assessment, social background makes more difference to student achievement in Australia than it does in these other countries. The gap between high and low-performing students is also wider here.

On average, Australia's schools produce high-quality results. Among 28 OECD countries in PISA, Australia's 15-year-olds tied in second place behind Finland in reading literacy, tied in third place behind Japan and South Korea in mathematical literacy, and tied in fourth place behind South Korea, Japan and Finland in scientific literacy.

Canada, Finland, Ireland, Japan, South Korea and Sweden had high-quality performances, showing that quality and equity can be achieved at the same time.

Australian school education is high-quality but low-equity. The UK and New Zealand are the same. The UK has a similar funding arrangement and enrolment pattern to Australia, with 65 per cent of students in government schools and 31 per cent in private schools that receive government support in addition to fee income. The wealthiest British private schools are generally in the 4 per cent that receive no government support. New Zealand has 94 per cent of students in government schools but has an equity problem due to the low performance of its Maori and Pacific Islander populations.

There are many countries with a lower average quality of schooling than Australia. Germany's results -- low in quality as well as equity -- have provoked an intense national debate about educational policy. Australia's results should provoke a serious examination of how Australia might achieve much more equitable results while preserving its high quality.

There are no grounds for the typical Australian fear that any attempt to achieve greater equity in education will lead to dumbing down. Levelling up can be achieved, as Canada, Finland and other countries have shown. That is what we want to see in Australia.

There are very good public schools in Australia and outstanding students in public schools. That is evident in the results of public assessment at the end of Year12. There is, however, a real risk that the present funding arrangements for the private and public sectors are driving down the relative position of the public sector.

Australia has the basic wealth to make certain this does not happen. With the demands of the knowledge economy and concerns about the falling birthrate, Australia has an enormous need at every level for highly skilled and innovative people. We must ensure that the majority who are served by public schools are not handicapped by an under-resourced system.

Peter Doherty, winner of the 1996 Nobel Prize in Medicine, is professor of medicine at the University of Melbourne. Barry McGaw is director for education at the OECD in Paris. Air Vice-Marshal Brendan O'Loghlin was director-general of military strategy and concepts and later principal of the Australian Defence College. All three will be in Brisbane this weekend for the 50th anniversary celebrations of Indooroopilly High School. Doherty was in the first intake in 1954, McGaw in the second and O'Loghlin started in 1958.


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